I'm getting ready to rebuild my distributor on my 1974 Panther (uses Series II XJ6 engine). Right now it has points and vacuum retard.
I'm considering a vacuum ADVANCE can and Pertronix ignition module. It has a 15 deg mechanical advance stop. No emissions equipment except for the stock carburetors.
Any experience along these lines? I'm having the tach rebuilt to be compatible with the new ignition.

 

I've heard nothing but good about the Pertronix system. Never tried it myself, tho.

Cheers
DD

 

You will love ditching the vacuum retard. If you don't have a sophisticated strobe timing light. get one. You can read initial advance and just how the timing advances as the engine revs up. You might even want to mess with the stops and weights in the mechanical part to alter how much advance it provides and when it comes in. That slick Panther weighs a lot less than the sedan and the timing can be altered to better suit it's new assignment.

Carl

 

You have a Panther?! Never seen one, but I have had a 1974 Earls Court Motor Show catalogue since 1974, that shows them for sale. I fell in love with that car as a kid.

 

I upgraded my Jaguar 22d6 points distributor to a Jaguar 45de6 from a later model. I also took the ignition amplifier and coil with it and made note of the amplifier connections to the ignition (coil) wires. I set the engine at TDC noted the rotor position and removed the 22d6. Replaced it with the 45de6 with the rotor in the same position. I mounted the amplifier unit directly below the distributor to the trapezoidal engine mount plate where the ballast resistors were (don't need them any more) and wired the amplifier white wire to the coil + terminal and the white/blue wire to the coil - terminal. The other side of the amplifier has a 2 wire snap connector that plugs directly to the 45de6. Hook up the vacuum advance and start the car. Set the timing to 8 BTDC and go. I liked this upgrade vs. Petronic or MSD because the 45de6 was engineered for the Jaguar by Jaguar. You don't have to mess with the vacuum or the tachometer, they just hook up the same way as the stock 22d6.

 

I have a 1976 Panther, which for Jag folks was the first SS100 retro based on all Jag parts and an alloy body, and factory made by Panther Westwinds in the UK. Mine cost twice what a Series III E went for new and has been my favorite Jag (My XK140MC DHC won the NW Regionals in 2013).

The Panther uses a 4.2L stock XJ6 engine from 1976 and mine, being blessed with US specs, has the retard(ed) ignition. I am planning to install a Tune123 computerised distributor and run the vacuum from the rear carb fitting where the EGR vacuum line plugs into the stock ZS carbs.

Has anyone experience with such an idea?

 

ss100,

As I said in my previous post, I converted to a later model SIII distributor. I used the original vacuum port. Its located on the bottom side of the intake manifold. If you are not aware of these ports, there were 4 of them on the bottom side of the intake. 2 smaller connections were for distributor vacuum and anti-runon. Why not use the original vacuum connection?

Steve

 

The Mallory Unilite distributor civilized my series II motor.

 

I ran the Petronix dizzy and Flame thrower coil on my SIII. Loved it, plus it was cheaper than replacing with stock parts.

 

There was a Wheeler Dealer episode where Ed China tamed a lousy running XK engine with a modern ignition.



Forward to 19:33 - where Ed compared the spark energy of the OE distributor with an aftermarket fully electronic unit.

 

I wonder if Mallory is still USA?


An old and honorable name in ignition. A littler known factoid is that Henry Ford
looked to Mallory for the ignition of the 32 V8. The base design was used til 48.
Dual points. Vacum retard. Even the V12's used a version. A good reason as to why those early Fords ran so well. Not easy to service though!!!


I got one for my Hot 32 four banger. never used it, as I veered off to V8 power.


Carl

 

I'm pretty sure Ed used a 123 ignition unit but I wondered where he got it for the price he claimed!

The 123 system looks pretty good on paper but as I've not got any experience on converting Jaguars to modern electronic ignition I'm watching this thread.

I used to convert various cars in the old days by first the older system which reduced the current through the contacts but still left the wear and bounce etc ( not recommended nowadays) then away from contacts with the old Lumenition hall effect types.

 

Reviving this 2014 thread. I've been interested in finding relatively easy ways of improving the performance of my 86 XJ6 with the original Lucas CEI distributor. I read about 3 companies who rebuild distributors and vacuum advance mechanisms and called one of the companies (British Vacuum Unit) in New Hampshire. The question is whether the series 3 distributor can be rebuilt and mapped in a way that improves performance. Either just by modifying the vacuum component or changing the internals of the distributor. Has anyone out there tried this? I am aware of the 123 and Petronix distributors to be used as replacement. I tried the Petronix and had some mixed experiences. Ended up going back to the OEM Lucas model for its consistency. I find that torque is very poor in the 2000 - 3000 RPM range and I assume its to meet the emissions standards of the time. I am hoping to unleash some horses hiding in the engine. I was even wondering if I put a distributor from Europe in there, would it be different?

 

I have looked into this before, Improving on the XJ6 S3 CEI ignition is a challenge. Early aftermarket distributor for Jaguars (all Lucas Distributors) (Pertronix & 123 ) were points replacement only and used the same 3 ohm ignition coil. The GM HEI 4 pin module is the heart of the Lucas CEI ignition system. The internals of the GM Module have been upgraded and are more robust that original (as are many of the aftermarket units). The only ignition module that I am aware of that upgrades the function and performance is the Stage 111 Pertronix D72000 HEI 4-pin module. (this Module is 50 state approved as a direct replacement for OEM ignition module)
I have run this on my 1984 XJ6 S3 for several years without a problem. You can use a .6 ohm coil, which allows a .005" increase in plug gap and provides a hotter spark.

IMO; an improvement in performance in the 2500 to 3000 RPM range is not possible from just ignition upgrades. Jaguar Smog'd engines were targeting idle an below 2500 RPM emissions. The missing power is from lower compression pistons and lower octane fuels; the ignition timing was advanced to compensate for the slower burning mixture. Fuel air mixtures moved from predominantly rich to predominately lean in the smog'd engines. As a California Car you still have the bi-annual smog check.

Pertronix stage 11 distributors, with matching (.600 ohm) coil can slightly out perform the basic Lucas CEI system. (although numerous Jaguar owners have installed them on S3 fuel injected engines with success, Pertronix only markets them for carburetor engines as a California approved replacement distributor.

Early 123 distributors had selected curves for you to pick from, none are perfect for a long stroke XK engine. Insufficient advance at lower RPMs and too advance between 2500 and 3000 RPM. Worst of all they only mate to a 3.000 ohm coil. The later programmable 123 distributor is complicated programming with EU metric system parameters, and you need to have the right ignition curve to input.. mates to 1.00 ohm coil. You can adjust to any advance at any RPM for comparison.. I think you will have to be on a dynamometer, to notice the difference.

My goals were better reliability, with the lowest ohm ignition coil, without compromising the module internal components. Perceived improvement were in starting and idle, I compared this to a Delphi ignition module in my spare Ignition amplifier, and found Pertronix module smoother at idle.

Several threads on Programmable 123 distributor, if you go that way... A you-tube article from Europe on the programming helped a lot.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...utions-278865/

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...epairs-210475/

Rgds
David

 

Advancing your cam timing will help a bit.

Cheers
DD

 

Thanks David. That was really helpful and resonates with me. I'm increasingly coming to believe the smog stuff is the culprit and until I move to a non-smogged location and take that equipment off, its all trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I should be thankful for my incredibly smooth idle, and a slight taste of nice torque in a brief part of the curve. This is helpful though, I read about the 123 unit and petronix module/amplifier, but i haven't talked to anyone who used it.

 

I'm not sure how to go about advancing cam timing. I searched the boards and Youtube and couldn't find anything. If someone has a workflow or reference, I'm all ears. Thanks

 

Not sure where your car stands with the transmission, but if you have the transmission out for any reason, a change to the "torque converter" stall speed my give you the boost in the 2000 to 3000 RPM range. From memory, there is a shop in Florida overhauling them, with the knowledge to make adjustments to improve performance in different RPM ranges than OEM specs.

You are right, if you were out of California, several pre-smog features could be retrofitted... straight down pipes were standard in Europe, also some of the other Mods from AJ6 engineering would collectively give you back some of the lost performance.
https://www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/misc_bits.php

My 1968 XKE was a smog car when I bought it, and a pain to get thru the smog check. After it became a classic not requiring bi-annual smog, I had the head off for rings (low compression), and went with new high compression pistons... did it with the engine still in the car... went from twin to triple ZS carburetors with adjustable needles and new pre-smog curved Pertronix distributor. After adjusting transmission shift point cable, had noticeable seat-of-pants improvement in performance.
Rgds
David

 

I've done it on a couple XJ6s but it was eons ago. I don't fully trust my memory. I'll look for one of my previous write-ups on J-L from 15-20 years ago

Cheers
DD

 

I would suspect that you might be going lean in that rev range. I would be wanting to get a wideband O2 sensor and an AFR gauge and measure what the engine is doing first.

Assuming this is an EFI car, I'd be wanting to check things like fuel pressure - is it dropping off at those revs? Have the injectors been cleaned and flow matched? What is the condition of the catalytic converter? Does it flow like it was designed to or is it damaged/melted?

It's reasonably easy to check that the ignition system is functioning as designed, put it on a scope and make sure that it is working properly and you don't have a tired coil that is failing when getting hot; or brittle wiring that goes open circuit at a particular harmonic vibration at those revs.