Should "Lumps" have their own forum? - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum


XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

Should "Lumps" have their own forum?

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Old 12-16-2017, 09:18 AM
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Question Should "Lumps" have their own forum?

Being a new user I assumed that this forum was dedicated to the "Classic -
XJ6-XJ12 S1, S2 and S3". Let me firstly say that I am amazed at the depth of knowledge and the helpfulness of its patrons.

But, not to rattle anyone's cage, should questions and items related to "Lumps" and other major conversions such as outboard rear discs, non-original engine and transmission transplants, not be relegated to their own forum. I for one don't see the need to read all about conversions on a forum that perhaps should be focused on the original models and their idiosyncrasies.

There seems to be a large number of "conversion" users that should want their own forum and not have to digest all the stuff from the rest of us.

Any thoughts or have I turned on the Fan?
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Old 12-16-2017, 09:32 AM
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Ian

That is why all the different sections are there.. for one to post to the correct area.

Do not click on Lumps if you do not want to read about our modifications. I do not look at the other areas for Saloons etc... but do look at XKE posts at times.
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Old 12-16-2017, 09:45 AM
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Hi Roger,
Being a new user perhaps I do not fully understand how to navigate, but I do not see any forum dedicated to "Lumps" to click on. I only click on the Classic XJ6-XJ12 forum, and that's where I see alot about "lumps". For example, your last post was on the Classic site and dealt strictly with lumps.
Guidance perhaps required on my part.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:08 AM
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Ian

Sorry, no coffee yet... this Forum does put all the posts about the same models in the same section... I use both Jag Forums.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iramphal View Post
But, not to rattle anyone's cage, should questions and items related to "Lumps" and other major conversions such as outboard rear discs, non-original engine and transmission transplants, not be relegated to their own forum.
This has come up before and whoever decides these things apparently determined it wasn't needed.

A lot of conversion and modification stuff is interesting and helpful to non-Lumpers, IMO.

Quote:
I for one don't see the need to read all about conversions on a forum that perhaps should be focused on the original models and their idiosyncrasies. There seems to be a large number of "conversion" users that should want their own forum and not have to digest all the stuff from the rest of us.

I think the overarching principle at play here is that nobody has to read anything they don't want to read, no matter what section it is in.


Quote:
Any thoughts or have I turned on the Fan?

Things have be quiet lately but there have been problems in the past due to (IMO) people getting carried away in expressing their opinions.

Some Jaguar purists feel that lumping is a sin of biblical proportions and have no qualms about saying so, hell fire and brimstone included. Brand loyalty and devotion gone over-the-top.

Some lumpers have gone to great lengths to incessantly and gratuitously bash Jaguar engines and engineering. A room full of Jaguar enthusiasts doesn't make the best audience for that kind of talk.

But, as I say, it's been quiet lately and apparently everyone prefers it that way...as nobody has been lobbing insults over the ramparts

Cheers
DD
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:51 AM
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Whew, had me wondering what I was missing for an instant!!!


In J-L the "Lump" forum was created because of "conversion vs original" sentiments that besmirched the common interests in the cars.


I made a NY resolution to avoid any mention while on a Non lump forum. I kept it for many years.


But, the "anti" seems to have faded. And, unfortunately, in J-L "lumps' have faded a lot.


Therefore, I see no reason for a "Lump" section here. Actually, the opposite. No, much to be lost. Lump or no lump, so much transcends.


Carl
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Old 12-16-2017, 11:56 AM
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One reason I moved over here from JL was the more broad-minded, tolerant and pragmatic people which inhabits this place.

Hang around for a while, Ian, pretty soon you'll learn who of us drive converted cars and you can avoid our posts. I think there's even a setting so you don't see threads you don't want to.

There's an awful lot more to a Jaguar than just the engine.
(';')
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:04 PM
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Very well put. What else from LNRB !!! There is so much more of the cars than the engines and transmissions.


I see room for all "under the tent".


Carl
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:09 PM
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leave it altogether; the whole car is so much more than the engine. like the electric conversion, where would he fit? we wouldn't want a carb vs FI separation. I'm fully stock, but soon to be a beautiful lump. I like one place to look!


geneo
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Old 12-16-2017, 01:22 PM
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i'm still awaitin the 1st 4 cylinder turbo lump?

some 4 cylinder engines are now over 300HP, about the same as early V12s.

its called technology! and also around 400/500 lbs lighter, may need new front springs, just imagine how the car would respond to steering changes!

HMM,, an XJS same power as V12 and 500lbs lighter weight, and more RPM .

if your goin for it go big or go home. almost forgot better MPG.

ron

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Old 12-16-2017, 02:34 PM
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Well said all. Being new here means I have still much to learn. I agree that anything to do with an XJ6/XJ12 is inherently of interest. Thanks for your guidance.
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Old 12-16-2017, 03:11 PM
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The culture here seems more inclusive than the purist mindset. Seems to work.

We are going through a phase at the moment where the LUMPers have more to talk about , so you are seeing their topics more. That waxes and wanes with the flow of projects.

Last edited by yarpos; 12-16-2017 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:02 PM
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I have a 1984 Series 3 that is stock and I purchased a 1985 with a blown engine and slipping transmission based on what the PO told me. This one I put in a GM power train.
This forum has helped me a great deal on both my cars. On the '85 beside the power train everything else is all Jaguar.
I alternate driving my 2 Jags and ride wise they are both the same. Power wise, that a whole different ball game.
So I use this forum for both my cars and were it not for this forum, I wouldn't have 2 Jags with everything working properly thanks to the gracious members of this great forum.
As others have chimed in, the only difference between a 'LUMP' and any other Series 1,11 or 111 is the power train. Everything else is all Jaguar.
Like you, when I first joined this forum, I had questions when a 'thread' would go off topic but then I realized that that is what makes this forum so great.
Sooner or later you would see what I mean. This forum is a very 'democratic' world class auto instructional guide. Take what you want and leave the rest alone.
Me, I read every single post whether it applies to me or not.
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Old 12-16-2017, 08:50 PM
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The glue in this forum is our common objective to keep a classic Jaguar on the road. IMO there is no need to calve out any particular group who aim to achieve their end result in a particular way that may not appeal to others.

Sometimes the mission involves straying from stock. An unbearable sin for some and for others it may be the only viable way to keep the car going. It may even be a deliberate preference in order to achieve certain performance enhancements etc. Either way, it's the individual's prerogative and whether we admire their approach or not, thankfully we are mutually respectful for the most part and still able to express an opinion without fear of lambaste.

It's a human trait to pigeon-hole people: "Lumper", "Purist" etc. If I were to label my own pigeon-hole it would be "Traditionalist" i.e. A preference for originality (particularly in the Jaguar's outward appearance which is close enough to perfection already!) but not to the point of paranoia as in the truly purist rules of the Concours d'elegance brigade.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:12 PM
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As I've been hanging out here for a while now, I 'am extremely grateful to all who have embraced my Love for my XJS, as well as my craziness, for pulling a page from "Cousin" Carroll's Play book, and attempting to shove a 650hp 460 Ford V8 into a British sports car. Just as Carroll created the best of both worlds with the Cobra, I'm intending for similar results with my Jacobra. I've ruffled a few feathers, But the Education I've gotten one this site and help from all of the regulars here has been beyond gracious. To Lump, or Not to lump, that is the question. If my car had not suffered an engine fire and repair costs not been ridicolous! I would have stayed with the V12 as I definitely think it's cool. When I'm done with my car I'll have less in it then the repairs would have cost me. So for me it was more of a question of economics, for a guy that works for a living. Thank You to everyone for their help and insight.
Jack
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:12 PM
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some of you guysmight just like this pic.
Attached Thumbnails
Should "Lumps" have their own forum?-vlcsnap-2017-11-27-11h23m38s201-1-.png  
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post

Some lumpers have gone to great lengths to incessantly and gratuitously bash Jaguar engines and engineering. A room full of Jaguar enthusiasts doesn't make the best audience for that kind of talk.

DD
Doug, Who exactly are your referring to as being "incessant and gratuitous"?

There is nothing gratuitous about pointing out the well documented propensity for the XK engine to fail in various ways or the V12's propensity to overheat, drop valves and for maintenance to stave off engine fires. These and other design characteristics are well documented and it's in everyone's interest to be aware of them and there reality so Jag owners can act in their own best interest with proper maintenance or replacement choices.

The weight and low power relative to other engines choices are also easily documented and there is no gratuitousness in pointing out a factual and easily quantifiable reality.

Jaguar did eventually set their I6 and their V12 right. I come to these realities from extensive experience. I presently own an AJ16 powered car a 1995 v12 XJS, a late 1996 6.0 V12 powered sedan as well as 2 lumps and 2 XK powered Jags.
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icsamerica View Post
Doug, Who exactly are your referring to as being "incessant and gratuitous"?

Nobody, these days. It's in the past.


Quote:

There is nothing gratuitous about pointing out the well documented propensity for the XK engine to fail in various ways or the V12's propensity to overheat, drop valves and for maintenance to stave off engine fires. These and other design characteristics are well documented and it's in everyone's interest to be aware of them and there reality so Jag owners can act in their own best interest with proper maintenance or replacement choices.

In the past, some here (and elsewhere) made an effort to include such commentary seemingly at every opportunity, even when such commentary was not relative the topic at hand, wasn't called for, and added useful nothing to the conversation. That's the very definition of 'gratuitous'.

It was done purely to stir the pot.


Quote:
The weight and low power relative to other engines choices are also easily documented and there is no gratuitousness in pointing out a factual and easily quantifiable reality.

"Gratuitous" means unwarranted or uncalled for. It isn't a matter of factual versus non-factual. It's a matter of where/when the commentary is inserted.

Cheers
DD
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:22 AM
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Pity. This thread was going so well with it's generally inclusive and tolerant vibe

Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year everyone
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Old 12-21-2017, 04:33 AM
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I'm not a purest, maybe traditionalist and try to keep my Jag original where I can. Iv'e updated the ignition to electronic etc because it works best.
But if it came down to money or availability I would have gone SBC if that was my best choice at the time. But it worked out well rebuilding the XK engine for me at the time. Apart from a blown head gasket & broken stud all my dramas have been the ancillaries which I believe now have been sorted or replaced.

I really enjoy reading threads on the lumps, and do not believe they need their own forum.

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