Found an article that talks about British Engineering and the Jaguar XJS;

https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2...h-engineering/

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Mark

 

Interesting although hopefully much of the reliability issues will have been sorted under new management and design processes.
The final comment in the piece was spot on; much of what was designed and built post war was done in a massively damaged infrastructure which had had no new design input for 6 years because everything kept getting the crap bombed out of it.
Eccentricity is a national trait and we treasure our nutters (apart from Morris Dancers of course, they should all be shot) so hopefully we will carry on producing them.

 

i like morris dancers , they ensure a good apple harvest to make Cider..........Wassail away....

BB

 

These two seem intent on elimination

 

I enjoyed the article. It made me smile several times. My XJS is my first British car. I marvel over the engineering every time I drive it or work on it. The engineering makes me smile, too! I love to explain to someone how the AAV works on the V12! haha
The design and sometimes crazy engineering make that car what it is. And to quote someone else on this forum, " Nothing drives like an XJS". I never really understood that until I got mine on the road this spring. WHAT A CAR!!

 

Easy.

You'll find no engineering flaws in a Jaguar, XJS or any other model.

Anything that has the appearance of an engineering flaw is, in fact, merely an "interesting design feature".

A happy Jaguar ownership experience requires utmost belief in this.

Cheers
DD

 

you like that ?

search for ' shin kicking ' its another local pastime round my way , also the ' cheese rolling '

what else do you need to do on a sunday afternoon......

as for British engineering, its exported all over the world, and we buy everyone else stuff , lol

BB

 

The article is absolutely correct. The English are not interested in product development, only in inventing things. And not only in that, but in doing so as individuals, or at the absolute most, small teams of like-minded people working at it together. Hence brilliant designs that are 'made to work' and then made. NO subsequent product development, as after all, the inventing has been done, the product made to work, where's the fun in making it a bit "better"?

This characteristic of the English is nowhere more obvious than in motor racing, of which England is the undisputed capital of the world. Ferrari? full of English bits, never any good at winning unless English (or old commonwealth) individuals doing everything from the design to the management. Mercedes? All their F1 cars made in the UK, engines too, all the important people apart from the top figurehead managers also UK.

Look at the original Mini, perhaps the best small car design ever, one man designed the entire thing (Issigonis). In production from about 1961 to 1995, NEVER significantly changed or developed at all. Same engine, same faults, would not run in the rain as dizzy pointing forward to the road (this "cured" by a factory upgrade consisting of a flap of cardboard over the dizzy). But, but, but, it remains the only classless small car ever made, beloved of aristocratic 1960s Sloane rangers and working class lads who roared around in them, owned by everyone from Royalty to road sweepers, and original Cooper versions fetch £30,000 a pop easily.

Same story for the original Range Rover, it took nearly 20 years for a 4 door version to appear, ditto automatic. But the original RR has something that the later all singing and dancing versions do not have. I cannot explain it, but I do understand it.

Final stat: the UK has more Nobel prize winners per 1,000 of the population than any other country, by a substantial margin. But, we never grow rich on exploiting these things, unlike the USA for example. Because for us, inventing is the challenge and the fun; developing? not very interesting for the Englishman.

Greg

 

I was discussing this with a pommie friend of mine at a long lunch recently. It went something like "the UK has produced some if the greatest engineering minds the world has ever seen, so how do you explain the wiring on my XJ6?" Just for the record, he blamed management.

 

Hey Guys,

in Australia we have serious problems with Homophobia. from this article it seems that at the other side of the pond there is obviously a similar phobia about all not designed or made in the US.

interesting when I drive my wife's lump of cast iron V8 with its' cart spring suspension and road holding that is simply frightening I can only marvel at the way my 2 XJS's hug the road whilst purring along. So much for US engineeering, give me British engineering every time even if the Black Knight comes along

have fun & stay cool in that miserable piece of British engineering that had the US spell bound for over 30 Years.

have fun
BernardS

 

You aren't comparing the Jag to American cars sold at half its price, are you? That wouldn't be fair, would it? That'd be like me comparing a Buick Riviera to a Morris!

Let's not pretend that all the U.S. Churned out was the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger...

 

Don't be silly. Remember, the USA was (and probably still is) THE largest market for Jaguar by a comfortable margin. Whatever faults Jaguars have, America still buys 'em. That doesn't prevent us from complaining about them from time to time, though !




The USA has designed and engineered some fabulous cars, most of them at a fraction of the price of Jaguars and....get this...managed to incorporate (oh my god, the marvel!) *sealed electrical connectors* when such a bizarre idea was nothing more than a dream for the Jaguar guys. Until Ford came along, that is !






We do and we will ! Just remember that design, engineering, quality of materials, and build quality are all different things. They may overlap, but each can be evaluated on their own. Jaguar shines in some areas. In other areas....not so much.


Cheers
DD

 

My favorite line was undoubtedly:

Parts central to the design will be made of insane unobtanium materials which will never break. Parts peripheral to the design will be made of junk and will break often.

Classic.

 

Awesome, Doug...


Cheers,

 

'The USA has designed and engineered some fabulous cars, most of them at a fraction of the price of Jaguars and....get this...managed to incorporate (oh my god, the marvel!) *sealed electrical connectors* when such a bizarre idea was nothing more than a dream for the Jaguar guys. Until Ford came along, that is ! '


Doug, please substantiate your statement.
Do you mean that the USA has, or did or still does engineer some fabulous cars?
If they still do, would you be so kind as to post a picture so that I could spot it when it drives past?
To be fair though, whilst I was down the recycling centre yesterday there was an unmistakeable rumble of an American V8 and sure enough, at late Mustang schmoozed around the corner.
And last month, whilst I was proceeding in a sensible fashion (I think I was in the Freelander so probably fast asleep anyway) and a Jet Black Stingray went past going the other way, absolutely ***** out and giving it hugely large amounts of sod you and I do admit that I may have gotten slightly damp around the gusset area.
Other than that, not much to shout about really.

 

Do you *really* need me to point them out to you?

I suppose the definition of 'fabulous' is something that would vary from person to person but I've always figured that any 'car guy' can recognize some of the great cars that have come out of Detroit. Obviously I've misjudged!

Do you want examples of the many hyper-luxurious land yachts....an automotive niche that Americans perfected? Or 'Personal' cars like the Riviera and T-bird?

Or how about the hundreds of ordinary-ish, reasonably priced family cars with the unbreakable drive trains....those cars that you just couldn't kill....no matter how badly you neglected them?

Have you ever driven a Thunderbird SC? A Cad CTS? Any of the modern-ish Corvettes? I have. Outstanding driving experiences. Very capable cars. Even prosaic Impalas and such have very good road manners these days....nothing at all like the oldies.

Have you ever driven one of those huge land yachts from the glory days? Imperials, Lincolns, and such? Wafting along as if on a cloud.....in total silence and sublime luxury...with room to s-t-r-e-t-c-h out? Fabulous.

Here's a true story......

For a period of time I owned a 1988 XJS V12 and a 1992 Mustang GT simultaneously. I'll tell the end of the story first: I kept the jag for years and got rid of the Mustang....because I preferred the Jag. But, in it's own right the Mustang was impressive....especially considering that it was $19,000 in 1992 versus that XJS which was $48,000 in 1988.

Having plenty of time with both I found that the Mustang was absolutely *much* faster accelerating at any road speed, at least up to 120 mph. The Mustang had great steering and road holding and was easily as responsive and fast ...or faster....as the XJS on my favorite curvy mountain roads....as long as the road was reasonably smooth. The Mustang used roughly 25% less gasoline in all types of driving. The Mustang had vastly more comfortable seats, more effective heating/air conditioning, faster power windows, better lighting, better stereo, better instruments. Unlike the Jag it had zero rattles, zero corroded electrical connectors, zero fluid leaks, zero overheating, zero rainwater leaks, and did not require a diff overhaul at 88k miles like the XJS. Nor did it require me to give special attention to the distributor, cooling system, fuel hoses, instrument cluster, etc.

The one driving aspect in which the Jaguar was clearly and consistently superior was braking.

I've been driving Jags for many, many years....I'm on #5 right now. Why? I like 'em ! The XJS was a 'fabulous' car....I preferred it over the Mustang... but it's hard to avoid giving credit where it is due.



Cheers
DD

 

This thread I assume is all in good humor and that is certainly how I respond but we now seem to have an unfair race between the USA and British in that a whole raft of candidates for "fabulous" cars representing USA has been pitted against just the one candidate from Britain.
I was watching one of the many US car auction shows on TV the other night and a car was featured at one point which I think was somehow related to a roadrunner, super bird or some such, not sure what make but it looked to me like it belonged in the jetsons, the most hideous looking motor car I have ever laid eyes on and it must have handled like a wet sponge but It gets worse, apparently they sold like hotcakes, we all pay our money and make our choice and very individual choices they are.

 

You must have read a book with a title something like "The Art and Zen of Sportscar Repair".
It was little gems of wisdom wrapped in commentary about the national attributes of each
make.

Still looking for my copy ... couldn't have thrown it out

And you missed a prime example .. the current Corvette against any other sports coupe.

On a rational absolute performance basis it beats just about anything out there.

We're not rational here

 

Actually you have this completely reversed. This discussion changed gears when Narrowgauger compared their XJS to a lump of US iron and basically claimed that no good cars ever came out of the USA. Basically he pitted his fabulous British car against just one candidate from the U.S. and was able to make a judgement damning all US cars from that point on.

To my earlier point, one that Doug made brilliantly, I think Narrowgauger compared a Jaguar to an American muscle car that sold for less than half what the XJS sold for!

 

i still like morris dancing....

BB