When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I can fully understand why you're concerned. But don't worry, if a good car shampoo doesn't remove the blood from the paintwork, a very mild cutting compound should do the job
Seriously, I do hope that everything is ok. Put your feet up, pour a glass and have a well-earned rest.
Letting the Reservoir run dry on a Car that has ABS Brakes, can be a very expensive mistake, as I was about to find out as there are loads of Guys on YouTube who had the very same problem
Where you have a firm Brake Pedal up until the Moment that you Start the Engine and then that Pedal just drops to the Floor and while I am not saying that you cannot fix the Problem just by Bleeding the Calipers
I was told by a Garage that on some Jags the ABS is partially Closed off inside, so trying to get any Air out that maybe trapped inside can be the Stuff that Nightmares are made of
Where in order to do the Job properly, the ABS needs hooking up to a Special OBD Machine, that keeps the Motor Running on the ABS at certain times during the process of Bleeding the Air out of the ABS Module, while at the same time also Bleeding the Brakes
And while I won't pretend I understand it, having the ABS Motor Running does seem to make sense, as the Machine is trying to remove any Trapped Air
But the one thing that I do know, is that having this done for you can be very expensive, as they may also have to Bleed the Master Cylinder, if it turns out that there may be Air that's also Trapped in there as well
Where depending on what they have to do and how long it takes, you could be looking anywhere North of £100 where the only problem at least for me, is that I can't drive down there, as I haven't got any Brakes!
And even if I took her down on a Trailer, if it turned out that the Master Cylinder, either needed Rebuilding or even Replacing, then all in all I could be looking at a very, very, expensive day out £300-£500 or even more! as once a Garage has got your Car
You may find that you've somehow backed yourself into a Corner, whereby your only option is to let them do the job and then Pay up!
Where even the thought of running out of options, is something that I never like to do!
So bearing all of that in mind, there was really only one thing for it and that was..................
ABS Delete!
I mean how hard can it be! as on the face of it this looks 'Like A Walk In The Park'
Decision made, so time to pick up the Spanners and get Stuck in!
Taking out the ABS was easy and took me less than 30 Minutest to do!
Once I'd got that Job out of the way, then I used Plastic Tubing to 'Mock Up' the Circuit, in order to hopefully find the best route for the Brake Pipe Tubing, while leaving the Original Brake Pipes in place, as I had a 'Cunning Plan' that I will come to later
What I did made sense to me but if I've either got it wrong or you know of a better way, then please do feel quite free to jump right in
New Brake Pipe Layout for ABS Delete:
(A) From the Front Connection of the 'Master Cylinder' Circuit (A) does both of the Rear Brakes but right in the Middle of that Tube, I'm planning to put a Proportional Valve (or what ever they call it) to fine tune the Rear Brakes
(B) Circuit (B) comes from the Rear Connection of the 'Master Cylinder' and then Spurs off at the TEE Piece to Left Front Brake
(C) Circuit (C) then goes off from the TEE Piece and then doubles back to the OEM Brake Pipe to Right Front Brake
All on a UK RHD Car
What I could do with some Help with, is in deciding what Brake Pipe Fittings to use
Should I for instance use a 10mm TEE or would a 3/8 TEE be better and also what Size of Brake Pipe?
More about my 'Cunning Plan' in the Next episode of this Long Running Saga! 'Wot Got No Brakes!'
Also a Big Thank you to all those wishing me well, after diving head first into the Concrete Driveway, after Tripping over the end of my Trolley Jack!
Perhaps it knocked some sense into me but then again 'Probably Not!'
I was wondering how long it might be before you decided to go down this route! In some ways, let's hope that the problem was in the abs module and not in the m/c seals! You'll soon find out!
You don't need to fit a pressure reduction valve for the rear circuits, there's already one further down that line. It allows equal pressure for front and rear circuits up to 25bar. Then it reduces the pressure allowed to the rear to avoid rear wheel locking.
Ironically I tripped over the Jack when I was in the process of carrying out your Test! (don't feel guilty Lol) it was all my fault, as I took the Rear Wheel off to get the Bleed Tube on and left the Jack just sticking out a little bit too far
Then I could feel myself falling but was unable to stop myself, until I heard the Sound of my head hit the Concrete, where although it didn't knock me out, it left me feeling Stunned for a moment or two
While I was starting to wonder, whether I was going to be alright or not?
When just a few Seconds after, there was Blood dripping down all over the back of my hand, where to make matters worse if they could get worse, I had no idea at all where it was coming from
Which of course was from my head! and it was all over my face! and looked as if someone had just dropped a bottle of 'Claret' at which point the GF was starting to panic and wanting to dial 999 (which I think is the equivalent of dialing 911 in the USA)
Where I thankfully managed to talk her out of it, as the last place that I was wanted to go would be to Hospital, so I literally sat there, wiping my face with a dirty old Towel that was covered in Brake Fluid!
Do Not! Not! Not! ever try that at Home! as Brake Fluid Stings like the 'Hammers of Hell' if you get it in an Open Wound! and as for disinfectant Qualities, 'I don't think so!'
I did put up a Selfie on the Forum but decided to delete it, as it actually started to scare the hell out of me, apart from the fact that I don't want to be reminded, that it could have been Game Over in every sense of the Word but at least I didn't have a Jug of Brake Fluid in my hand to throw over the Car
But I've had worse and so the Show goes on, even though I haven't had any Sleep for a Couple of days, or should that be nights! So now I've put some Crash Mats, all around the Car just in case Lightning might decide to Strike Twice and it happens again!
But as I'm not the sort of Person who likes to sit around and where because of all the problems, probably won't be Selling the Car this Year as I've now missed the Summer, I decided to Delete the ABS and then I'll know Proof Positive, whether the Master Cylinder Works or Not!
As after my experience, I wasn't really feeling in the Zone enough to Bleed the Brakes on this Car for the Umteenth Time, where taking out the ABS which from what I've been reading, is more than likely the problem, was a very easy little Job
So I'm kind of looking forward to the Job of Re-Piping this Car, where as you will see from the Photo, I'm leaving all the Original Brake Lines in their Place
and then I can take the ABS Unit to my MOT Guy to ask his advice and get him to Bleed it Off the Car which I've been told is possible
And then if or when I sell the Car, my 'Cunning Plan' was going to be to give the New Owner the ABS, so that he can refit it if he wants to, unless like me he does prefer a Car with no ABS
But you'll never Guess what I picked up at a Car Boot Sale Today for only Ten Pounds and though it won't fit my Car Paul (ptjs) will know! and so that's for the Next Chapter in this Never Ending Saga!
Stunned For The Second Time This Week That I Picked This Up For A Tenner
While Still getting over the Shock of Tripping Over My Trolley Jack, myself and the GF went Shopping, then on the way back decided to go to The Saturday Car Boot Sale
Which I try and keep away from, as I want to buy everything I see, although Today was gonna be different and more akin to Therapy than being a Shopaholic, well that was the idea anyway although with me, even the very Best Plans can often get changed at Short Notice
Grime Scene (Courtesy of the GF) where the resemblance to myself is uncanny!
Having arrived at the Car Boot Sale, I was quite determined not to spend any Serious Money but when I saw this Mystery Object, I could no longer resist! and though I kept it to myself I think I was the only one, who knew what it was and though I paid a Tenner for it, this could well be the Bargain of the Year
What is in the BOX with my heart beating out of my Chest I just had to find out, where for once I had an Actual Tenner on me in hard Cash
A Brand New Unused ABS Unit for only Ten Pounds!, as I really don't think that anyone else had any idea what it was, I wonder if it would fit my Car if I made a few modifications, so with the Serial Numbers on there, I think Paul (ptjs) would probably know
Over to you Paul (ptjs) do you know what Car its for and also will it fit mine?
I believe that might be an ABS pump for a Ford Escort Mk V? The Escort uses an ATE (Teves IV-type) system, I think? Could you fit it on an XJS? Hmmm. Despite both vehicles being "Fords", I wouldn't want to try it! Even if they are the same principle (separate front circuits, single rear circuit, I really don't know if they work in the same way? I think I'd check the part numbers, verify the exact Ford model range it fits, list it on eBay and make a huge profit! Then I'd put that money towards some new shiny bits for the XJS - either a replacement m/c or cover the costs of those calipers!
You know how it feels when everything seems to be going a little too well and you suddenly find a problem with no obvious Solution, well that is exactly what has just happened to me
So seeing you Guys and Girls over the Pond, know more about 'Modding' than I ever will, there's every chance that I'm overlooking the obvious, so if you are able to help me with this, then that would be Amazing! and Much Appreciated and may also help someone else who is thinking of doing the same
But first just a Re-Fresh on the Problem:
When I was Fitting 'New Calipers' which while it looked an easy Job that I have done many times on my V12 XJS when it came to doing exactly the same on my 1995 XJS 4.0L this turned out to be the Job from 'Hell' as all the Bolts without exception were a 'Nightmare' to undo!
Though as it turned out, this 'Nightmare' was only just beginning! when just as I was thinking that things couldn't get any worse, they suddenly did and that was when I went and let the Brake Reservoir Run Dry! 'No excuses it was all my fault
And while this is really not such a Big Deal on the Teves Mk111 if you go and do that if your Car has the Teves Mk1V then you could like me, then wind up with a Major Problem that you could well do without, as Air got Trapped inside the ABS that I couldn't Bleed out
With lots of 'Sob Stories' just like mine on YouTube!
Where once having Bled the Brakes, you've got a 'Rock Hard Pedal' right up until the moment that you Start the Engine and the Pedal then Sinks to the Floor, because there is Air Trapped inside the ABS that you can't Bleed Out, unless of course you get lucky, which unfortunately I did not
And though I'm not an expert having done some reading on this, it appears you need to have the ABS Motor Running during the Bleeding Process, where in order to do this, your Car is hooked up to an OBD Scanner that has the Software to do this, which is missing on the less expensive versions
So if like me you went and let the Reservoir Run Dry, then it could very easily be a Very Expensive Day out, as if your Shop were to tell you that you needed to get a New ABS by the time this is fitted and working, then you could be looking at North of £300 and maybe £500+
My Daily Driver, my Merc 190 has no ABS and so has none of those problems to contend with, so being something of a Personal Choice, then I would rather not have ABS although opinions vary, so if you happen to love ABS then that would be entirely up to you
So seeing that the ABS on my Car had gone wrong and had Air Trapped inside it, then I though that this would be the perfect time to delete it on a Temporary bases, so that I could at least take her for an MOT and have some New Tyres Fitted
Then get a proper estimate to either Fix the ABS or even have a Brand New ABS Fitted, where at least I would be able to drive the Car away, if I had the feeling that I could be getting Ripped Off
Taking out the ABS was easy and only took around 30 minutes to do!
Where once having done so, then it was just a matter of making up a few Brake Pipes to Bridge all the Gaps and though I'm not a Mechanic as such, I've done every job that ever needed doing on my Car including dropping the IRS and refurbing it for no other reason than I find I like doing stuff like that
During which time I've also made loads of Brake Pipes, with a DIY Kit that cost around £30 that I found was quite easy and enjoyable to do
That was up until just now when everything went 'Pear Shaped'
To try and make sure that I wouldn't get lost, I made a 'Mock Up' of the Layout using Plastic Tube, so all I thought I had to do was join them altogether using Cupro Nickel Brake Pipe
The Fittings I was intending to use were 3/8 UNF 24 Tpi with 3/16th (4.75) Cupro Nickel Brake Pipe, that I was intending to cut up and make to size
Where having done this stuff before, I couldn't see a Problem until Now!
That's the Problem that I'm looking at right there!
Removing the piece of Plastic Tube and then rejoining those Fittings with a piece Cupro Nickel Brake Pipe
The Problem being those Brake Pipe Fittings are Not 3/8 UNF like most everything else is, they are M12 x 1
OK so what's the problem, go and get some!
That's the Problem, Because while I can get M12 x 1 (male connectors)
The ones I want are M12 x 1 (female connectors) to go on the ends of the Pipes I'm making and no body seems to sell them or even manufacture them in the UK and even the Male ones use a different size Tubing!
And even though its Tempting to use the 'Nuclear Option', of cutting the ends off the OEM Pipes and then turn them into 3/8 UNF like everything else, then once I have Burned that Bridge, it could be an even Bigger Problem, if I decide that I want to either repair or replace the ABS
And so unusually for me, I'm right out of ideas! and so could use some help
M12 Male but I need the Female version to join those Pipes together
I amnot sure what the second one saying 'bubble' is. Maybe not a suitable end. The first one says 'flat=re though and will be OK. Ask one of your USA fans to send you half a dozen!
Last edited by Greg in France; 08-16-2023 at 02:11 PM.
Is it just female 12 x 1 ends that you're looking for to connect to those male pipe ends? If so, something like this is readily available on UK Amazon and you'll have the job done by lunchtime on Sat!
Paul Great thinking (I must be getting old!) Put one on each end of the new brake pipe and all is well. But they say DIN flares and I think OB needs SAE double (inverted) adaptors, repeat think. They must be out there though!
At the bottom it says:
I just cannot seem to think this clearly. If the female ends are on a new bit of pipe, how is the male fittig's flare going to seal? I think you do have to have a female inverted flare fitting for it to work. HELP!!
Size of the female fitting - 12mm x 1mm Female brake pipe fittings Suitable for pipe size - 1/4" Suitable for DIN flares (flat flares)
Last edited by Greg in France; 08-17-2023 at 02:10 AM.
El Jefe is 'The Goat' ( Google it Greg don't you ever watch Tic Tok)
Inspired by your discovery, I had another look on Amazon and found these (see photo) that maybe even better? although I did 'Gloss over them once' because they use 1/4 in Tubing and I haven't got any of that (don't you just hate it when that happens!)@lnrB
But I have got 3/16th do you think that would do, as it's only a 16th smaller?
Also got a Top of the Range 3/8 UNF 'Tee Piece' that you recommended to me a few years ago and while I wouldn't say that it was expensive, it had the kind of Price Tag that would cause Rip Van Winkle more than a few Sleepless Nights! (as has did me!)
I wouldn't try and mate 3/16 pipe to 1/4 pipe for the sake of buying a bit of pipe. I'm not sure that the flares will easily seal or that they will sit cleanly in the female fitting.
Paul Great thinking (I must be getting old!) Put one on each end of the new brake pipe and all is well. But they say DIN flares and I think OB needs SAE double (inverted) adaptors, repeat think. They must be out there though!
At the bottom it says:
I just cannot seem to think this clealry. If the female ends are on a new bit of pipe, how is the male fittig's flare going to seal? I think you do have to have a female inverted flare fitting for it to work. HELP!!
Size of the female fitting - 12mm x 1mm Female brake pipe fittings Suitable for pipe size - 1/4" Suitable for DIN flares (flat flares)
Hi Greg,
Yes, Good spot. I didn't look closely enough at the flare end. OB will need an inverted seat end to match the bubble-type flare of the male end. But I think the principle should work ie to have a piece of pipe with a female inverted seat end in a female fitting on each end. As you say, I'm sure it's just a case of Googling / Amazoning until OB can find it.
Just been outside to have a look and the Male end affixed to the Car is a DIN with a very small 'Single Bubble Extrusion' on the end
'my spell checker' just had a touch of the vapors, when I typed that in!
So on the Female Fittings that will be holding the New piece of Brake Pipe I think a Double Inverted Flare, will probably do the Job, so I'll have to do a Test Flaring and see how it looks but why on earth do Jaguar keep mixing and matching the Sizes in the way they do
The good news being I may have found a piece of Automec 1/4 and though I haven't measured it yet, it definitely feels a bit thicker than 3/16
08-10-2023, 04:33 PM
