My adventures with starters for IC engines goes back to my first car.
A 23 Ford T! Easy then, hand crank or push start. Oh, and tow chain!!


In 1981, I got a real deal on a 79 IHC Scout II. 304 CI engine. Torque flite transmission. I went on a business to the nearby Sierra Nevada mountains. In early AM,. I stopped in Placerville for breakfast. OPh, oh, when done, no crank!!!!


After a bit, it fired. On to my assignment. Very interesting. But, for another day. I asked colleagues to "back me up". Sure!!!


No problem it cranked just fine in the PM when threw job was done.


Once home, he next day or so, I dropped the starter. Not hard.
I found the familiar AC Delco unit. It was just fine.


Nice heat shield and all. But, no relay. Only a wire from the Saginaw steering switch to the solenoid.


I found a solid state MOPAR relay. I soldered it in. It worked just fine for a long time.


Mix match of parts missed a bit!!!




Ugh, starter issues have raised their ugly head, again....
Jag clicks but does not crank !!
Carl

 

I am looking forward to hearing your experience with the SIII Doug. Meanwhile, FWIW, my understanding from one or two owners in the UK some years ago, was that the under bonnet temps were nothing like as much of a concern in the V12 saloons. This because (as you say Doug) the rad intake was bigger, and the under bonnet/hood space was far les restricted, and bonnet clearance above the engine was far greater so much better general under hood airflow. As the SIII was originally engineered for the straight 6, all this seems very likely true in practise as well as theory. But the battery which is under the bonnet had to have a fan to keep it cool, I believe.


What is the view on the SIII part of the forum, anyone know?
Greg

 

Doug,

I know from eyeing them both from above.

The S2 and 3 you can see the ground past the engine. On the LH side you can actually SEE the top of the oil filter.

The XJ-S, NO way, it is encased in the body work.

This is the issue with Sedan versus the XJ-S.

The XJ-S has that large under bumper intake, and smaller upper intake, and I reckon if someone with excess time on their hands did the measurements, I reckon the area would be very close on each car

My biggest find over the years is the large foam that is attached to the trans tunnel. It consumes heaps of area, and falls down over time, and sits ON the transmission, and effectively blocks a goodly amount of engine bay air getting OUT. I replace it with "modern" insulation material, and a very THIN sheet of aluminium trimmed just right, so it "pops" into the cavity over that material. This then gives a large gap in that tunnel, and I contribute this to be the main reason my cooling system works sooooo well.

Downside, the trans needs to be OUT of the way to do this, bummer.

 

Funny you should mention that big foam pad, Grant. I was planning on using something else simply because the foam is so old that it crumbles apart if you look at it the wrong way....but I honestly never thought about the air flow thing!

Cheers
DD

 

To be honest I'm not so sure the difference is that great . Compare the two pics from my old 1988 XJS V12 and a pal's 1988 Series III V12



For whatever reasons Jaguar dropped the battery fan fairly early on in Series III production



Haven't asked ...yet

Cheers
DD

 

My .01Cents!!!


When, in about 2002, We removed the DOHC 6 and BW 66
from my 83 XJ6, we came upon that foam "blanket". Scraggly and oily!!


So, when I cleaned up the bay for the nice clean LT1 and 4L60E,
it just wasn't right to plunk that greasy mess on it. In to the garbage.


Never missed it. No extra odor or noise to my attention.


And, yes, it seems a positive move towards increased air flow in and out of the engine bay. A good thing...


Carl

 

Lawrence,

I'm sure you've ran across the following website:
XJ-SC Modifications

This is the only thing I've been able to find on an actual install of electric pumps on an XJS V12. I'd like to eventually convert mine over when my stock pump goes, but space is at a premium in the engine bay. The LH fender well seems to be a convenient place for the pump due to the lower hose location. However, the header tank will need to be relocated to accommodate this. I see you have an aftermarket radiator. Any chance the lower outlet is on the right side? Then, all you'd have to relocate is the vacuum reservoir.

I've spent a lot of time in my engine bay cleaning, organizing, and at times re-engineering to optimize and automate the way things work. If you get the time, I'd love to see some pics of your predicament and of the gauges in your interior. I want to figure out a slick way of getting more information into the cockpit without comprising the original design of the interior.

Jaguar got a lot of things right and thought many of the systems through on design with the money they had. Sadly, sometimes the lack of budget they had to work with shows. I often wonder how the cars would've been different if they had the proper backing and freedom of design from parent companies, but I guess that's part of what gives these cars the charm and character that we all love.

 

Thanks for you info on the elec water pump (ewp). I'll let you know how thing stack up. I'm not going into a lot moving things around , one thing usually leads to another when components are this close, as I said starting out this thread I have no cooling problems. Yes I did see the site on the Jaguar Modifications, unreal. The updates I did keeps me below the "N"or 220*F on my AutoMeter gauges in hot conditions. The ewp running after shut down, as the elec fans do is only a plus type insurance. Since I already had the ewp it wouldn't be no expense.
Yes the cabin has little space for anything like gauges or switch's. I took out my trip computer (never did use it) in order to install the two temp gauges & oil pressure gauges. I'm now looking for a space to put a switch panel. Some use the ash trays space for different things.

 

i dont know why i'm reading this thread!

i dont have any overheat issues, and temps around central Texas can get to 100F+ sometimes.

but when i did my restoration/rebuild there was NO internet that i know of,1994, especially for XJS, i didnt even have a computer(i'm an old timer) still drives me nuts(guess that makes me normal).

i relied on good old fashioned common sense, and modified areas that i felt made sense,like a modified cooling system, (i had heard that V12 overheat).

the trans. tunnel thingy fell out on the ground when i removed the engine/trans unit, so never put one back, seemed to me a useless thing anyway!

all in all car still runs ,drives ,handles,fast and brakes excellent! many, many mods, BUT still a V12!

 

i needed a space also, so center glove box did the trick!

 

Jags do not overheat if they are well maintained.

None of mine ever have.

The issue is that dredded "catch up" when we enthusiusts get hold of them, and that list can be very long, but once done and dusted, drive that pants of the thing, it is what it was designed for.

 

Well I think you created a "copy cat".

 

looky..... at the temp and oil pressure... yes with 100,000 miles...
how... radiator that does not let steam waste 1.5 gallons of coolant every 4 miles... replaced unholy holey radiator with wizard cooling al unit bolted right in...


what causes valve seat drop... coolant level too low... ie not in the head during shutdown... no coolant then the heat soak goes to the heads not to the coolant... the al expands and the valve seats drop... on the open valves


I can not even get the silly electric fan to come on any more unless I shut down hot.... wait a minute or two start it ..... shutdown ... see if the fan is running while looking at the temp ie takes two or three times to get the fan to come on for the shutdown fan running after key off... I check it monthly like that as I want it to work this summer and not get caught out...

I noticed an F-type at the Nissan dealer on the used car lot... looked it over during lunch.... 1700 miles F-type R awd $86000 US I might try to get them to let me test drive it...

properly maintained cooling system should be ok...

 

I'm not sure that a dropped valve seat is "only" caused by overheating. I came across a interesting article a few weeks ago, but didn't save it(ugh), where a guy that specializes in valve seats, head work etc, had a long article about "microwelding". Seems the wonderful ethenol will cause the valve to actually "weld" itself to a valve seat when shut down. Once started, the valve actually pulls the seat right out of the head. Reminds me of the advice given to me by a old time machinist when I picked up my freshly rebuilt XKE V12 heads. I asked him what could be done to prevent my Jag from ever dropping a valve seat again, and he thought about it a second, then said "don't start it".

 

There's no limits to the evil things Satan Ethanol can do it seems. The guy might be a decent welder but he appears to know little about fuel.

It was the removal of lead from gas that caused accelerated valve seat wear on some engines, not addition of ethanol. Put a few drops of alcohol (any type) on hot metal and see how quickly it evaporates, leaving no deposit.

I highly doubt that micro welding from any cause would occur on an engine that's not running and that the weld would be strong enough to pull the seat free during engine start.

 

As a point of reference my S3 V12 does start seeing the temp gauge creep beyond the N mark when stopped in traffic during the Texas summers, especially if I've just exited the freeway. I concluded that air flow is required to keep this engine cool if ambient temps are high.

I've started the engine from cold and let it idle for a good 15 minutes, but don't see the same behavior. I concluded that i should not be jumping to conclusions, but should instead be doing a coolant flush and bleed. But, there's always tomorrow. ...

 

My XJS did the same, essentially.

No problems at all with ambient temps at 90ºF or below, roughly speaking. But, any higher and the cooling system struggled a bit in traffic, but never dangerously so. I concluded that it was as good as it gets.

Personally I wouldn't be concerned about a slight increase...but if it keeps climbing up-up-up, that's a horse of a different color.

Cheers
DD

 

Trying to send pm

 

Got it, and done the deed.

 

On the micro welding.....I can only say from my personal experience that I sincerely believe this is what happened to my car. Running great, below N temps, just a nice day to be out in my convertible. Parked it in the drive for about 2 hours, went to drive it to a local cruise in, and as soon as I started it, I heard the dreaded dropped valve seat sound. Very familiar with it, as my 71 XKE had a cracked valve seat once. A sudden sound of excessive valve clearance. I am building a 6.0 for my car right now, and haven't torn down the engine in my 89, but am positive that is what it is.