Engine and suframe removal
#1
Engine and suframe removal
Hi there,
I'm finding it harder and harder to work on the lower area of my engine... As I need a few morr parts, I wanted to work on the engine outside of the car. On my crashed X300 I removed the V block bolts, undid the rear huge bolts, the propshaft from the tranny, the tranny mount and the steering column connection and was able to roll the old engine on subframe out.
As far as I have been able to see, the V12 with subframe would be best taken out from below. 2 large/huge bolts at the front, the brackets for the front stabliser, the rear rubber mounts and undo the tranny bracket and prop and it should be able to be removed from below (pivot car upwards on ramps).
Am I missing something along the lines here? Removing the entire subframe would make my life a lot easier... And I can work in the garage and therefore weather independant...
What size are those huge screws at the front and are there 4 or 3 screws/nuts per side on the rear rubber mounts?
Cheers
Damien
(With some really bad sunburn after working in the sun for 5 hours and forgetting to put sunblocker on)
I'm finding it harder and harder to work on the lower area of my engine... As I need a few morr parts, I wanted to work on the engine outside of the car. On my crashed X300 I removed the V block bolts, undid the rear huge bolts, the propshaft from the tranny, the tranny mount and the steering column connection and was able to roll the old engine on subframe out.
As far as I have been able to see, the V12 with subframe would be best taken out from below. 2 large/huge bolts at the front, the brackets for the front stabliser, the rear rubber mounts and undo the tranny bracket and prop and it should be able to be removed from below (pivot car upwards on ramps).
Am I missing something along the lines here? Removing the entire subframe would make my life a lot easier... And I can work in the garage and therefore weather independant...
What size are those huge screws at the front and are there 4 or 3 screws/nuts per side on the rear rubber mounts?
Cheers
Damien
(With some really bad sunburn after working in the sun for 5 hours and forgetting to put sunblocker on)
#2
Daim
If only. The fact is that this cannot be done. The engine with the heads on is far too wide to go down between the chassis rails. It has to be lifted out from above, which is how the factory installed it. If the heads come off first, then it might be doable as you envisage. But removing the heads, engine in car, is a complete pain, even if theoretically doable; and considering you have to get it all out and everything disconnected somehow, the extra pain of hauling out the engine with a crane is well worth it. The rear mounts just require the one large nut you can see to be removed to free the subframe at the rear.
Once out, the engine is wonderfully easy to work on.
Greg
If only. The fact is that this cannot be done. The engine with the heads on is far too wide to go down between the chassis rails. It has to be lifted out from above, which is how the factory installed it. If the heads come off first, then it might be doable as you envisage. But removing the heads, engine in car, is a complete pain, even if theoretically doable; and considering you have to get it all out and everything disconnected somehow, the extra pain of hauling out the engine with a crane is well worth it. The rear mounts just require the one large nut you can see to be removed to free the subframe at the rear.
Once out, the engine is wonderfully easy to work on.
Greg
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Daim (06-04-2016)
#3
After looking and measuring, it will/should work, as the engine bay widens up to the front... If pulled out at the same time as the body is lifted up, it will roll out...
I can't be **** to lift that beast out... Did it on my donor car... Took a weekend...
I can't be **** to lift that beast out... Did it on my donor car... Took a weekend...
Last edited by Daim; 06-04-2016 at 12:35 PM.
#4
Greg
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Daim (06-04-2016)
#5
As far as I can calculate it should. My plan is to put the rear end on a pair of ramps amd use a hoist to lift the front up. Whislt pulling it up, the engine on subframe will be rolled out. I'll see if I can timelapse the job.
I find it hard to understand, that Jaguar put the engine in from above... That is against all principles of a subframe... If I look at the underside, it would make sense to make the drivetrain and suspension with exhaust on one part and the body on the other. Mount then from below (like a normal marriage).
I guess lifting the front up about 1.3 m (4') (calculated height with frontsprings well unloaded) on an angle should make it possible.
As I removed the engine and tranny from above last time, the heads hit the bulkhead all the time or badly should I say, as the required angle was far too high to do it properly... Engine on it's own I see would also be rather painful... Maybe quickest but painful...
My idea was to also reassemble most of the engine and front parts like altenator and co outside...
I find it hard to understand, that Jaguar put the engine in from above... That is against all principles of a subframe... If I look at the underside, it would make sense to make the drivetrain and suspension with exhaust on one part and the body on the other. Mount then from below (like a normal marriage).
I guess lifting the front up about 1.3 m (4') (calculated height with frontsprings well unloaded) on an angle should make it possible.
As I removed the engine and tranny from above last time, the heads hit the bulkhead all the time or badly should I say, as the required angle was far too high to do it properly... Engine on it's own I see would also be rather painful... Maybe quickest but painful...
My idea was to also reassemble most of the engine and front parts like altenator and co outside...
#6
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Daim (06-05-2016)
#7
Also, Daim, why put the rear on ramps? I think you might need quite an angle of lift to get the engine rolled out forwards as it has to clear the cross member under the rad, and ramps at the rear will make this even more of a lift.
There is a really interesting book all about how the XJS was made with loads of factory assembly photos in it, that comes up on ebay from time to time:
Jaguar XJS - excellent history book by Rivers Fletcher | eBay
Well worth buying it, and it shows how the engine went in, and yes, it does have to be at a crazy angle! As a DIY job, it is "easier" if the subframe is removed first and then the engine hoiked out. getting the sump past the rear edge of the subframe is a nightmare.
Greg
Last edited by Greg in France; 06-05-2016 at 02:36 AM.
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Daim (06-05-2016)
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#8
@ Greg
It needs a large angle and the rear overhang will not allow such an angle without elevating it. At the same time, I have a few things under the car to do... So it isn't that bad
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Greg in France (06-05-2016)
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Daim (06-05-2016)
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If you were running book on it my bet would be no. To clear rear corners of the heads and water rails past the inner footwell humps it looks as though you need to move engine forward more than radiator support crossmember will allow.
Having said all that, l never was a good gambler.
#14
Good luck Daim.
If you were running book on it my bet would be no. To clear rear corners of the heads and water rails past the inner footwell humps it looks as though you need to move engine forward more than radiator support crossmember will allow.
Having said all that, l never was a good gambler.
If you were running book on it my bet would be no. To clear rear corners of the heads and water rails past the inner footwell humps it looks as though you need to move engine forward more than radiator support crossmember will allow.
Having said all that, l never was a good gambler.
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Tried it 4 different ways and have to admit, you guys were right, I was wrong. Yes, I am manly enough to admit I was wrong...
In the end the engine came out from the top and the subframe from below. Now I can work on both in the garage whilst the car can sit outside without taking up too much space.
In the end the engine came out from the top and the subframe from below. Now I can work on both in the garage whilst the car can sit outside without taking up too much space.