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Looking at this radiator, if the photo in the ad is accurate, it only has an inlet on the upper right, and looks like a fill cap on the top of the tank. I put in an aftermarket radiator with only the single inlet, and it was a LOT more work than I thought it would be to plumb the two hoses into one inlet. I made a "tee" adaptor and a pipe to go from the left bank to the tee, granted my skills are not that sharp but it took a looong time to get it all together, ymmv. Now that it's together it's working fine though. That problem may not apply if you don't have a v12, but the cap on top of the tank I think would cause a lot of trouble with mounting.
Another thing to consider, and I can't tell from the ad, is if it has the fittings for the air bleed system on the top tank. When I was radiator shopping I was told, maybe by Johns Cars?, that some radiators intended for v8 swaps aren't set up for the air bleed, as those engines don't really need it.
I ran into quite a few other snags to get the whole thing working, they might not apply to every aftermarket radiator though so I won't spell out the whole list here.
If I did it again, I'd get my stock unit recored, in my case it would have been a lot faster, cost probably comparable if not even cheaper, but we do still have a few radiator shops here in town, not having that might change your equation.
Good to know. I do not want to deal with these sort of headaches. From the ad it seemed like this would be a direct fit. I contacted the manufacturer in China to see what they can make and how much they want for it. I may buy 10 (their minimum) of them and resell the other 9. I have a reseller license.
As far as the OP issue. I do not really see one with the radiator height. You can get spacers of all sizes in all materials fairly easily. Even the local hardware store might carry something that could be filed down to size. why not just file the original spacer down to size? The banjo bolt is an issue. Filing will work though . I have done this before without issue on a different vehicle where I ran into the same problem.
A hydraulic hose place will certainly have everything needed to solve all these issues. 'Hose and fittings' in the bay area (San Leandro) is where I go.
I am glad this thread exists. Perfect timing for me. I hope he actually follows up and finishes this off with the final solution. It should be mandatory on this board to finish the threads you start with a conclusion, even if there is no solution.
I am a bit concerned with the "she'll be right" approach to some of the cooling system components on a motor that needs the complete system in top condition.
I have a custom aluminium radiator in my own car, top quality locally made in Australia using US sourced furnace brazed core and dimensionally correct, not just close enough. Of course you get what you pay for (Aussie made way more expensive) and I have nothing against chinese manufacturers (own a lot of chinese made stuff) but l am not taking that chance with the radiator in my Jag.
I just don't understand why Jaguar designed such a cumbersome and overly complex cooling system, nor why people think they need to match OE exactly when buying an aftermarket radiator. If you want OE quality and fitment, buy OE and pay accordingly.
Thin the bolts down a bit and install them.
The core itself is already massively oversized compared to equivalent size engines and I don't think the radiator bleeds need to be permanently connected to the cooling system. They should only need bleeding once at installation or refill. Not entirely sure why Jaguar thought it was necessary.
The very worst that would happen if that bleed hose contraption was never fitted is that a tiny amount of air would be trapped at the top of the radiator, barely enough to cover the top row of cooling tubes. If the cooling system is that marginal, well you have other issues.
If Jaguar was serious about cooling system bleeding, they would've put the bleed tubes on the cylinder heads where they would do the most good.
It sounds like some of these aftermarket radiators are an improvement. Some claim they are 40% more efficient. I believe this radiator he is installing is better than OEM? some customization for better cooling is an upgrade. I believe this radiator he is installing is better than OEM.
It seems like everytime I work on my car its a little better than it was. Certainly the case when I replace the crappy rubber everywhere with better quality rubber or poly. I think OEM often is a joke. The prices they charge for inferior items that have been sitting on shelves for 25 years is robbery. Pay $300 for a OEM power steering hose with jaguar rubber, or have the local guy make one with brand new materials that are far superior in every way for $50... you tell me. Anyway, lets start a new OEM thread and keep this one on track.
It sounds like some of these aftermarket radiators are an improvement. Some claim they are 40% more efficient. I believe this radiator he is installing is better than OEM? some customization for better cooling is an upgrade. I believe this radiator he is installing is better than OEM.
It seems like everytime I work on my car its a little better than it was. Certainly the case when I replace the crappy rubber everywhere with better quality rubber or poly. I think OEM often is a joke. The prices they charge for inferior items that have been sitting on shelves for 25 years is robbery. Pay $300 for a OEM power steering hose with jaguar rubber, or have the local guy make one with brand new materials that are far superior in every way for $50... you tell me. Anyway, lets start a new OEM thread and keep this one on track.
You need to remember father time has been at work on a lot of those items you have been replacing, of course the replacements are an improvement. Give it another 30 years and the same comment will be made regarding your "new" parts. I would guess however a Chinese radiator won't last anywhere near that long.
1317268]I just don't understand why Jaguar designed such a cumbersome and overly complex cooling system.
Because the rad is lower than the heads, there is an inherent air bleed difficulty in the installation. One Texas-based poster on here has changed his header tank to the bulkhead (firewall) and fed the system into the heater return, doing away with the radtop stuff completely, with no problems. This is possible because the air can now naturally rise to the cap. I understand that this is the system on the latest X300 V12 saloons as well, but I have never seen it myself.
Originally Posted by Typhoon
The core itself is already massively oversized compared to equivalent size engines and I don't think the radiator bleeds need to be permanently connected to the cooling system. They should only need bleeding once at installation or refill. Not entirely sure why Jaguar thought it was necessary.
The very worst that would happen if that bleed hose contraption was never fitted is that a tiny amount of air would be trapped at the top of the radiator, barely enough to cover the top row of cooling tubes. If the cooling system is that marginal, well you have other issues.
Because the XJS has an inherent airflow problem into the radiator stack, the cooling is far less effective than it should be given the size of the radiator. This is also, I believe, the principal reason the gap between the oil rad and the water rad gets full of rubbish, as a relative low pressure area builds up there owing to the poor airflow. Anyone who disbelieves this should unbolt their front bumper and take their V12 for a spin. I guarantee the temps will be lower and that the temps will reduce much much faster after a hot stop and restart such as in a traffic jam on the motorway. In aero terms, the installation practically guarantees dirty airflow into the radiators when you want laminar flow (clean air). On a 5.3 HE, moving the horns out of the airflow and the second coil, makes a difference also. I believe the fact that the XJS installation entails inherently poor airflow to the radiator is the main reason the cooling is marginal and has very little surplus capacity if not in perfect shape, and is the reason the bleed system is so important.
Originally Posted by Typhoon
If Jaguar was serious about cooling system bleeding, they would've put the bleed tubes on the cylinder heads where they would do the most good.
I agree and Rob Beere Racing sells V12 racers a special gizmo that fits to the thermostat housings that automatically does just that.
Does that mean if you fit one of those Rob Beere 'Gizmos' you could do away with the Pipes on top of the Rad?
Good question, I have no idea, but I suspect you cannot do away with the OEM bleed system, as the top of the rad and the top of the crosspipe filler are both above the heads. I think the gizmo is just to ensure no little air pockets remain in the head/thermostat area to spoil the racers' days.
Mind you, a gizmo on the rad banjo and one on the filler tube would probably work!
Since I believe there is some interest in whether this can be made to work, I will also list all the issues or modifications that this radiator presents. I assembled everything enough to see what tolerances or fit problems there are.
1. The supplied banjo bolt won't work even with modification -- it isn't long enough.
2. The bleed port on the left side of the radiator doesn't line up well with the cutout on the radiator cover. The cover might have to be modified to provide proper access. See photo.
3. The transmission cooler ports are angled away from the engine bay toward the frame. The lower port has to have the fitting installed prior to putting the radiator in place. Tolerance is zero, with the angle of the aluminum barb fitting resting against the frame. See photo.
4. If you have a mid '87 or newer, the transmission cooler lines have to be modified to work with the barb fittings supplied (or the different thread flare outlet the barb fittings screw onto, though the angle of the lower port may make that difficult or impossible).
5. The threads of both bleed ports are M10-1.50.
I contacted the seller, and they have offered a discount to compensate for the problems.
The question now is, do I go through whatever effort will be required to make this work, or do I return it and start over with either a new rad or a recore?
Is there a lot of interest in seeing how to make this work?
Cheers.
Last edited by Mac Allan; Sep 28, 2015 at 12:04 PM.
How very disappointing. The gearbox cooler pipe against the frame of the car is an absolute no no. This will certainly fail in use and ruin your gearbox, not to mention it will fail at the worst possible time, being Sod's Law. I would send it back unless you can find a local aluminium welder who can fix this problem, but from the photo it looks very hard to see how it can be.
You can easily buy longer banjos, particularly so with metric threads, but I would ensure you can get one in the correct size and length before deciding to keep it, assuming the gearbox cooler pipe can be fixed locally.
The radtop panel hole misalignment is just as likely to occur on an OEM replacement, I would not worry about that aspect, just enlarge the holes.
Greg
Last edited by Greg in France; Sep 28, 2015 at 12:25 PM.
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
Perhaps I should negotiate an exchange?
Yes, that looks more like the "ticket"! Still seems to have a drain in it like the one you already have. Still not threaded connectors for the trans cooler....and might not that bottom angled connector cause interference with the fan shroud?
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
It can be, the thicker rad will probably sit further forward. This in turn pushes the top fixings of the condenser forward so they will not fit the radtop panel and the dryer fixings can be a problem also, this in turn means the bonnet (hood) when fully closed may well foul the fixings.
I know this from bitter personal experience when I fitted a three row rad. I had to do all sorts of messing about with various bits and pieces to get the bonnet to close without fouling the bonnet, as this pic sadly shows:
All this can be overcome, and a three row rad really needs to be made so the rad pins are placed to ensure the rad sits back further rather than more forward. Whether your will be, who knows? FWIW, I would recore the original
Greg
Im guessing its a stock pick. It says it fits the 91 xjs, so I could return it if it doesnt work. There are other options, though this is the cheapest I could find. Considering we replace radiators every 5 years like dist caps, Id like to spend as little as money as possible on something I can toss in a few years. $400 is cheaper than a recore in my area.
Looking at this radiator, if the photo in the ad is accurate, it only has an inlet on the upper right, and looks like a fill cap on the top of the tank. I put in an aftermarket radiator with only the single inlet, and it was a LOT more work than I thought it would be to plumb the two hoses into one inlet. I made a "tee" adaptor and a pipe to go from the left bank to the tee, granted my skills are not that sharp but it took a looong time to get it all together, ymmv. Now that it's together it's working fine though. That problem may not apply if you don't have a v12, but the cap on top of the tank I think would cause a lot of trouble with mounting.
Another thing to consider, and I can't tell from the ad, is if it has the fittings for the air bleed system on the top tank. When I was radiator shopping I was told, maybe by Johns Cars?, that some radiators intended for v8 swaps aren't set up for the air bleed, as those engines don't really need it
I ran into quite a few other snags to get the whole thing working, they might not apply to every aftermarket radiator though so I won't spell out the whole list here.
If I did it again, I'd get my stock unit recored, in my case it would have been a lot faster, cost probably comparable if not even cheaper, but we do still have a few radiator shops here in town, not having that might change your equation.
Is that rad for a six cylinder? Inlet and outlet wrong for sbc.
