A true Jag should have a straight six as in the old days.
V12s appeared later and are condemned to disappear, Jag will not produce a V12 anymore.
The next generation of Jag engines will include a new straight six, an Ingenium engine that should have all the potential to deliver power with state of the art technologies. Not 700-800 but certainly up to 500, so plentiful for a GT cruiser such as a "new XJS".

 

Rumor has it the V8, as it is licensed from Ford but is a Jag development, as is the current V6, will be ditched favor for a V12. It is a logical step to go from an I6 to a V12, as the design can be modified rather easily to make one. To cut a V12 into a V8 is a worse idea (Jag tried it as they were developing the AJV8).

I have my hope up high, that this piece of Jag-History will return as it was supposed to be built... With loads of power and at the same time being totally quiet, like a BMW x60 and a Mercedes 600. A good 6l V12 with around 500-600 hp and 1000 nm of torque... As the CL63 AMG had a few years back.

 

Daim, it is not easy to turn an inline 6 into a V12, because the V configuration requires a LH and a RH inline 6 to make a workable 12. This is the main reason that the AJ6 heads on the V12 are so hard to do. One side drops pretty well straight on, but the other side requires very careful cutting and welding of the head in order to get the exhaust, inlet and cam drives in the right places. Of course, separate castings are doable, but then there are no cost savings.
By contrast, a V6 is somewhat easier to turn into a V12 as the exhausts and inlets do not have to be moved, "merely" the timing chain mechanism cut off one of the V6s and longer camshafts installed after the blocks are welded together. This is what the Aston V12 is - two Duratec V6s welded together.
FWIW, I do not believe Jaguar will ever make another V12, and I doubt anyone else will after their current V or W 12 engine ranges need replacing.
I completely agree with you, and with Paydase (his post immediately before yours) that a top end, silent, really comfortable Grand Tourer does not need anything like 700+ BHP. It is a matter of deciding who the car is for and what they want from it. A competitor with a Corvette a Jaguar GT is most definitely NOT, in my view. Furthermore very few people can safely drive a 500 BHP car let alone one with 50% more power. The number of people who smack their McLarens, Ferraris, Porsches, etc on their first run out on a damp day is astonishing. 0 to 60 in 5.5 and a top speed of 150 mph is in the real world hardly ever used, if ever, and anything faster is just bar room boasting rights. What Jaguar have to recapture is how to make a car that does all this at 60% of the price of the competition - that plus their legendary refinement has always been their USP.
Greg

 

I agree with Greg . The twin-turbo v6 in my 93 puts out 400 or so hp but around 435 lb/ft of torque starting just under 2000 rpm. Check the specs on Bentleys over the years . I drove a friends gt500 with 650 hp and it was hard to keep the rear end under control, very scary.

 

Sure, it isn't a simple plug and play job but a V12 can be made... There is a bloke building a 2JZ V12 (Toyota Supra I6) in his garage. He has spun one head around so the valves are on the right sides... He is building a warm/hot V. Really interesting project.

If Jag did it the US style, they'd build heads like the 'Murican V8s have...

 

The driver's side parking lamp was deleted to enable an Air Catcher cold-air intake, helping the supercharged 6.2-liter HEMI® deliver 'class-by-itself' horsepower and torque.


SO.....
6.2 w Forced induction.... which Jaguar is well schooled in Forced Induction...
let them have the 6.0 v12 for aston martin w 540 Hp and just how many bar or PSI would it take to make 700 800 900 or a 1000 hp


707 would be 4.5 psi or .3 bar....
800 would be 7.0 psi or .48 bar
900 would be 9.8 psi or 2/3rd s bar
1000 would be 12.5 psi or .85 bar....


even let them use the old 2009 version that only puts out 470
still do able... and I will say from personal exper. that DODGE is just that
a thng you will want to dodge...
every one I have owned had head gasket problems... the second one 5 miles out of warranty that I had to really have a go at them to fix....
5 miles I waited 5 mile after warranty to have the oil changed and then the same old song for the dealer "uh.... your head bolts are Loose" seemed like a SCAM to me!
I gave them a proper redressing DOWN.... as I have put together 9k rpm 1275 Austin Healy motor that I could drive on the street and track....
so LS3 yes, FORD yes, Jaguar YES, any dodge given to me would be for sale as soon as I could get the ad posted... they are JUNK....!

 

Where are you getting the rumor that the V12 is returning for Jaguar ? Though I think it would be cool to see, cannot imagine why Jaguar would return to a V12 when they have spent so many years now with the V8.

IMO Jaguar has placed themselves in a position of not being on the highest tier of the market so not really seeing why Jaguar would go back to a V12 in the market segment they are in.

The day when Jaguar needed a V12 to get enough horse power and also to meet emission requirements has passed. Why would Jaguar use a V12 engine when they can acheive what they want with a smaller less expensive engine?

Pretty sure a V12 would not even fit well in a F-type and with the smoothness and H.P. that can be rung out of a V8 with today's technology why would Jaguar sacrifice gas mileage and space to go back to a V12?

 

The V8 days are counted. Even though the AJV8 is a Jag development, the right lay by Ford. Due to the agreements, Jaguar can use the V8 another year or so... The same with Volvo. Volvo used Ford platforms (C1, C2, etc) for their models. The license expires 2017, so Volvo has to get their ***** moving and make their own platforms and engines. The same reason Jag has the Ingenium engines. The Ford/PSA diesels would cost too much... New engines required. The V8 won't be replaced with a V8. And to keep the prestige of a luxury car (like S600 and 760L, you need a V12...). Regarding the V8 drop, the message was in a press release here in Germany.

 

even an I6 sounds more beautiful than a V8
TR6's old Z cars 240 --> 280 old JagUars.... yes GRIN....

 

Jag V8s only sound like engines when the exhaust is modified... I know, I have one which always has some other niggle every time one is sorted.

 

Most interesting, what is the configuration of the new engines going to be Daim?
Greg

 

According to the release, 2.0l 4 cylinder turbo engines will be the backbone and main fleet and also replace the non supercharged V6s. Turbocharged I6 with 3.0l dispöacement instead of all V8s. And as stated the V12 rumor. The rumor was also mentioned in the release but neither confirmed nor denied. Factory though is all V8s and V6s are being ditched. I would assume a 6.0l again, should it be confirmed, as an equalsized V12 to Benz and BMW..

 

Too true.

A visit to You Tube quickly reveals how quickly owners are getting into trouble with these 500-700 HP monsters. The first thing everyone wants to do is turn off the traction control because, after all, they 'know how to handle 500 horsepower'. Yeah, right. A bit comical at times....but not really. Street cars nowadays can have the power that, not too many years ago, was considered suitable only for actual track cars with veteran drivers. I find it a little disturbing that anyone can just go out a buy a car that they really don't have the skill and experience to handle. I driven many of them and, frankly, they can scare the hell out me....and that's a good thing. I suffer no illusions about my skill level and reflexes. It's a case of fear breeding respect. You can't just plop into the driver's seat and go nuts. ....unless you're looking for trouble or have the skill to manage the car....or both.

As often as not I have more fun driving 300-400 hp cars. With those you can give 'em a work out, really run 'em up thru gears, enjoy *all* the power and noise the car has to offer....rather than just scratching the surface.

IMHO there's just so little opportunity to do the same....on public roads... with more than 400 HP. To put it a bit coarsely, more than 400 HP is a bit like sex without climaxing.

One of the most fun cars I've ever driven is a Ferrari 246 Dino. Only 190 horsepower but, jeeeez, what a gas to drive!

Cheers
DD

 

Got to say, I like a NA engine. Revy, has a graduate power output and it will run for ever. A Honda S2000 has a 250 hp engine with only 2l displacement. It revs until 9000 rpm and still lives for ever. Where as a 2.0l TSI with 250 hp and turbo will die early.

I never had the urge to get more power from my cars. I would love an XJR but I know that my license would go quickly. I am happy with the 237 hp the 3.2l V8 in my X308 makes. The 295 hp in the V12 are of course better but on the other hand, they are silent and are used to 'make progress'. Not to do some '11's...

 

Noises. Little like the burble of a nice V8. Or it's snarl, with the
throttle opened.


A hot six can sound like an angry BEE. Not all bad, just different.


400 HP in the hands of a neophyte is scary. Think torque twist.


A great example is veteran pilot, Chuck Yeager's description of take off in feiry P51 D mustang. Lots of rudder on advancing the throttle
to overcome the torque or a ground loop comin up. And, that is with throttle "rollin".


The neophyte that just stabs 400 HP is going to ground loop, LSD or not.


I used to love to drive fast. lessened, yeah, the opportunity and knowing that I am 86!!!


Carl

 

86, that is OK because engineers have taken us out of driving the car anyway.... they just get your foot input and do what the engineer says to do...
they even park themselfs... and now stop themselves and are on the way to driving themselves....

the day is coming that you will have to have a "Special Lics." to drive an older car that is not "Grid aware" and you have to drive... about 15 years...

that trouble with the traction control off.... is due to not so well fly by wire throttle design...

if there was a REAL connection to the throttle you (like me) would find the drivability of the beast much more manageable (500hp corvette)

the engineers at Chevy got it WRONG I could show them a better way but I doubt they would pay me...

1) I would want my Tablet hook up to the engine computer to "show me" the actual throttle position... because I have driven a 92 corvette ZR1 that was set up for the track with the power switch on... and was easily able to enter a turn at 40 and exit at over 70 by skillfully applying the throttle... all nice and smooth... it was a 270 clover leaf ...

I am of the belief that CHevy "with the baby sitter in the off position" is not actually giving you linear control of the throttle... but is just putting it in "THRILL MODE" and when you easy on it is not giving you a proper linear throttle opening....

now with that said ....
even if 5% throttle is able to give you tire breaking lose torque
there is a better way for the foot feed to manage the engine

but I will not go into that here...

 

Prior to my Jags I had a modern day Volvo C30 2.0l NA. Flybywire of course. It would hold the revs a sec or two when you went to change up/down a gear. It would also only allow a wider throttle when the engine had a minimal temperature etc. Traction control could be deactivated - to a degree. As soon as the steering was moved it was on again. Onky way to tufn it off was to do a J turn at around 50 kph. Then all of a sudden the car was agile, would take every blip of the throttle etc.

Modern cars are regulated too much because more and more unqualified people are driving them. The result is clear: too stupid to drive but wanting to make cash: sell clever cars to dumb people. See all the assistants...

- lane departure assist
- hill start assist
- blind sport assist
- parking assist
- braking assist
- adaptive cruise control
- full beam assist
-...

People have even forgotten how to use a car key properly. As I took my XJ-S to work my coworker asked me what I was doing... I had my key in the drivers door to lock the car... A simple move...

I turn 30 next month and think it is a shame that more and more people are getting less and less clever to drive the faster and faster cars along the more and more congested roads here...

 

Pretty much sums up my thoughts too.

 

Agree completely. Jaguar car, Jaguar engine

If you want more power twin turbo on the V12, limit boost 0.5 to 0.7 bar.

Not much space but have seen photos so know can be squeezed in the XJS engine bay.

That would be my dream modification,not looking for massive 500+ bhp output that frankly are unusable outside of race track or drag strip for 98% of the time.

A good honest 400-450bhp with loads of torque from 2000-2500rpm would be my ideal , if I'm dreaming this would be coupled via 5 speed auto and all wheel drive.

Regarding earlier posts about V12 returning, sadly I doubt it will happen. If you look at trends in the main V12 being replaced by V10 or V8 and sixes either V6 or I6 replaced by I4 generally with turbocharged engine.

My last three cars prior to XJS have been turbocharged petrol engines (two I5 and a twin turbo V6) . Modern turbo technology has improved tremendously, ball bearing turbo that spin up really quickly eliminate lag that they were notorious for years ago.

 

I agree. I will be very surprised if Jaguar starts using a V12 again. Just does not fit their market segment any longer IMO. There are factors that have to be taken into account when using a larger engine and a few of the main ones that I can think of are :

A. Cost.

B. Fuel consumption.

C. Size restraints including length and width of engine compartment and weight.

I have given a good amount of thought to what I would have Jaguar change on my XJS if they were redesigning the car and the more I thought about it the more I wanted my XJS to stay the same.

Sure there a few things I would like to see improved like horse power and cup holders but then I realized that in a sense the XJS GT did continue on as a XK8 thru to the F-type.

The reason I choose a XJS with less power and fewer refinements over a XK8 back when I was looking was because it is special. With all it's quirks it is simply class without all the Glitz. The XJS is unique and I like the fact that it is a little of the old mixed in with a little of the new kind of like this 51 year old owner.