Can not get passenger door open on 1988 XJS. It opens partially until the safety latch stays in position against the metal loop on the door jam. I have tried lubing, slim jimming, cycling the power locks and the external key lock for about a week now. Nothing has let me get back through that door. I read that removing the door card might get me free, but how do you get it off when the two screws at the leading edge are behind the dogleg where the door light switch contacts it and can not be reached. Any great solutions....has this happened to anybody else??????

Thanks in advance from Graydog....

 

Silly question but are you pushing the door closed before cycling the locks?

 

Baxtor,

Yes, it is closed prior to operating either the door handles or the power locks. I have cycled it repeatedly...still no luck. It seems that the pawl in the latch is stuck and will not retract to let the door unlatch from the safety position....about one inch open. Not sure that even if I get the door card off that pulling on the arms or levers by hand will cause it to release.

Thanks,
Graydog

 

Just a thought. Your Jag does not have computer interface. But there are circuit boards that control many items. How about just disconnecting the battery. Let the Jag sit for about 30 minutes. Reconnect and see if the door will completely open? Just a thought..

 

MHF25,

Will give it a try.

Thanks,
Graydog

 

If all these things do not work, it is possible that the activation rods inside the door, that connect the lock to the handle and the solenoid, have come out of adjustment, or that the mechanism has jammed somehow by only partially releasing the catch. There are loads of possible reasons, such as minute clips failing, or other lost motion being caused by wear.

If so, you have to get to the door jamb mechanism to fix it. So the worst case is one of these two fixes:

1. Remove the door card. Even forgetting the light switch end for a moment, this is hard to do with the door open about an inch! There is a small screw under the door pocket that may be hard to get to. But if you can, then pop out the fixers all round the rear edge and bottom of the door as far as you can. Also pull back the arm rest ferrule and undo the large screw it covers. Then with a GOOD upward shove, push the card upward at the rear end. This should (at the expense of creasing the front top corner) release the top from the door sill and centre of the card from its fixing. At this point you can bend the card and force your way into the lock area. Once there, it is not obvious what to do, but pulling/jiggling the lock rods, particularly the ones that go to the handle, whilst someone else rocks the door up and down from the outside, might do it. The lock itself cannot be removed from the inside.
2. The only other thing I can think of (if you do not want to risk ruin of the door card) is to remove the lower dash, remove the A pillar cover at the ankle area, and get into the two separate squarish A pillar holes through which you access the three nuts holding the hinges. Unplug the door loom and undo the hinges while someone else steadies the door which must be resting on a jack. Then I think you could (a) Get the door card right off no bother and thus get right at the mechanism, (b) get a little more access to the door end/B pillar gap, but also probably jiggle, lift and twist the door out of the B pillar locking loop. Worst case, you could probably get enough access to cut the B pillar loop to release the door.

Greg

 

That does not sound fun. I can feel your pain - when I first bought my '89 the power locks and mechanical lock somehow got out of sequence and I could not get the driver door open. Eventually by moving the actual lock by hand and the electrical lock and unlock from different combinations, it finally worked. I don't know if you tried that approach, although it sounds likely that you have tried about everything you can think of.

 

Greg and JNporcello. Thanks for the ideas. Yesterday, I went out and purchased a large variety of trim removing tools in the hope that I can get the door panel off...or at least the rear edge free enough to get at the rods. I fear that your idea about a failed plastic grommet is probably the culprit hear so there is not too much hope of getting this done without getting the panel off at least. The idea of removing the entire door is also intriguing as well. I will keep you posted on my efforts.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Graydog

 

It might be a little more work, but one idea for removing the door card would be to remove the other side first. It isn't too bad to get the door panel off - if you can open the door. If you did the other side, at least you would have a feel for it before you went into it where you can only get the door open an inch. Might save you from breaking something, or knowing what you can or are willing to break if necessary.

 

JNporcello, Greg

Thanks, I have got the passenger door panel pulled back and tried yanking on the control rods , but nothing has worked yet. I am thinking that I have to work on the adjusters on the rods to let the rods travel far enough to release the lock.

Anybody have suggestions on this before I really get things screwqed up to the point of introducing a cutting torch???? It seems like the lower control rod works the actual locking mechanism...so will try that one first and keep posting any results.
Thanks again, your suggestions have helped me to get this far at least.
Graydog

 

The rod/rods you can feel which go horiziontally across the door to the locking mechanism on the door end are those from a) the door handle and b) the solenoid locking actuator.

The rods you want are those you cannot feel, or even see probably, which go vertically upwards from the locking mechanism to the door handle. You can jiggle these if you can get your hand into the right position (semi behind the door glass) get a mirror on a stick thingy and see what I mean. The one rod has a knurled adjuster on it and one does not. It is the knurled adjuster one which controls the locking mechanism. You may be able to pop them out of their catches on the lock. This may or may not make any difference...

You may with your mirror, be able to see on the locking mechanisn itself, what moves and how when the door closes and partially opens, if a helper shuts the door repeatedly while you look. You might even see something that is not letting the thing go right to its end track, or jamming it somehow.

On my car, when I changed over the door handle and lock, the door would shut and open and lock, but not unlock! It turned out the knurled adjuster thingy was not adjusted long enough to quite release the locking bit on the mechanism! Only took two of us 2 days to find and fix the trouble!

If none of this works (and I take it you have tried locking and unlocking the door from the inside as well as with the key?) then I truly think the unbolt the door and completely remove the door card and then if necessary the window from the inside is the way to go.

With a small enough rotary cutter and enough patience you could probably cut up the lock mechanism from the inside to get it out/released. No bother getting a new/scrap mechanism.

Greg

 

Greg,

Thanks so much for the newest ideas. I will try to get at that part of the mechanism next and see if I can manage to get it to release. Looking at the parts book for the XJS it seems like it is that vertical bar that may be the culprit, so I will see if I can get at it and go from there. If that fails the door comes off next.

Thanks for taking your time to explain this to me. Will let you know how it goes.

Graydog

 

I have done about all there is to do to these cars, and I can't see how unbolting the door will help. These cars have the hoop catch, and when you unbolt the door, the hoop isn't going to allow removal. Call me crazy, but I would get a pack of cheap wooden shims, let the door glass down as far as possible, and wedge the shims in, in such a way, as to create a large enough gap to fish a clothes hanger with a small hook down into the door, and try and assist the lift of the rods that pull up going from the door handle to the actual latch. I really feel you are on a path to mess your car up here trying to work on it from the inside.

 

To follow up, I had this happen to a car once before, and watched a locksmith use reckless abandon with those shims. I honestly felt my door was going to be permanently warped, but he did his thing, pulled the shims out, and there was no harm done.

 

Sadly I think you are be correct. I have just been out to my car and looked and also taken some pics of a spare locking mechanism I have from my spare door. Unbolting the door will allow the door card to be saved but it will NOT help to release the door OR to get access to the B pillar loop. So these are my suggestions now. First, some pics to explain how the lock actually works:

pic1: This is the "outside the door" bit of the mechanism in the FULLY LOCKED position:


Pic 2: This is the "outside the door" bit of the mechanism in the FULLY OPEN position, as it is when the door is open:


Pic 3: This is the "outside the door" bit of the mechanism when the door is closed but not fully closed, on the "first click". This is where you are stuck at the moment I understand:


Pic 4: This is the bit of the "OUTSIDE door mechanism" viewed from the inside, that is activated by the INSIDE door mechanism to undo the door. The brass coloured release pole has to be pushed UPWARD to move the nylon thing above it to release the catch shown in the first three pics above. This SHOULD happen in one single stage and it should not be possible to just release to the first stage at all. That is, the door closes in two stages but opens in one. Thus it may be that this "outside the door mechanism" (which is a sealed unit) is broken somehow and no amount of fiddling with the inside mechanism will help. Anyway, this is the release pole:


Pic 5: This is the INSIDE door mechanism in the locked position. As you can see, the pole is prevented from being moved upwards (to the left in the photo) by a piece of the mechanism.


Pic 6: This is the inside door mechanism in the unlocked position, that is the door closed but not locked. As you can see the mechanism is no longer blocking the path of the pole


Pic 7: This is the lock in the "door handle pulled up" position. So you can see what has to be where to pull the pole upwards. It is getting this pole up that you are trying to do. If it does not open properly when you HAVE got the pole fully up then the outside door mechanism is broken.


So if the sealed outside mechanism is broken and pushing the pole fully up does nothing, even if you get a helper to REALLY pull the door open HARD while you hold up the pole in the hope of unjamming the outside portion of the lock, what to do? One of these I think:

a) Unbolt the door and support it carefully, remove the door card and keep it safe, use a small dremel type cutting tool and over many hard hours using many bits, cut out the captive bolts on the inner mechanism. Thus the door will swing open leaving the outside mechanism on the B pillar. Replace outside mechanism and inside one from a known good door from a scrapper.

b) Find a good scrap door, face having it resprayed, and then get into the door from the outside skin with a big grinder and do the full rock-ape thing to get it off! I HAD thought that unbolting the door would allow access to the B pillar loop, but it will not, sadly. But read on for my demon tweek suggestion

c) Remove trim from the rear quarter and the furflex from the B pillar, peel the leather trim off the B pillar and remove the rear armrest and speaker, having first removed the rear seat. Sounds a lot but it is not. If you decide to try this I and others will post more detailed guidance. This may or may not be a problem to do door semi-closed, but from lookig at my car I think it is do-able. Then you get access to the B pillar interior from the rear of that pillar. Make bigger holes if/as required in it, and cut out/undo the locking loop bolts from behind! Door swings open. Undo outside mechanism and replace with known good one!

Here ends the seminar. Good luck

Greg

 

Greg,

What a phenomenal treatise on the door locks. I really appreciate the extent of the detail that you have provided. I will be working on this problem during this coming week and I am sure that with this help, I will get the thing open one way or another.

All I can say is ...Thanks you for all of your very valuable time and ideas.

Very appreciative,
Graydog

 

Greg,

Nothing has worked so far. So, I have removed all the quarter panel trim from the B pillar back. You mentioned some additional suggestions if I were to try to get at it from inside the B-pillar. I see the tips of the two screws that hold the plate to the B pillar. However before I grind them down or drill them out, I wanted to check back with you again before I overlook something in the process here.
I appreciate your guidance on the b Pillar approach.

Thanks in advance.

Graydog

 

Graydog
The two screws you see should be vertically one above the other. They should be threaded into a backing plate that you can also see. If you can drill/grind out these screws somehow, the door loop on the outer skin of the pillar will not be attached any more and the door will swing open. In theory anyway, but I am sure it will! The plate will fall down the pillar interior as it is not captive, so maybe a bit of masking tape to hold it before you drill so you can get it out?

If you look at the other door, you will see the fitments and loop from the outside. You will see that the loop fixing screws have a Torx (star-shaped) drive system. Once open, the loop will be trapped on the locking mechanism still. But the four screws that hold the mechanism will be easily undone. Once undone the outer jammed portion will come off, and the inner portion will fall down inside the door, or dangle from the actuating rods, so tape that too!

Then get an outer from a scrapper and reassembly is the reverse. All you will need to do is tap a new backing plate, get a couple of the screws from the same scrapper, and off you go.

Thanks for keeping us all up to date and congrats on progress so far.

Greg

 

Greg,

Thanks for all the help. I figured out how to remove the screws without having to drill them out!!!!! I noticed that they stuck out quite a distance into the B-Pillar cavity. So, first, I grabbed them with visegrips and turned them to unscrew them a bit and make sure that they were loose. Then, I took a Dremel with a cut off disc and trimmed off most of the excess, but leaving about 4-5 mm. so that I could cut a slot in the screw shank, thereby turning it into a screw with the Torx on one end and a conventional flat blade screw driver slot on the B-Pillar inside. Then, with a small screw driver, I was able to unscrew the lower one, and push it all the way through the B-Pillar until it dropped out the bottom of the door. I did the same with the upper, but there was not quite enough clearance to push it all the way through. Next I grabbed the door handle and held it in the open position (up) and pushed the door fairly hard in and out until the entire thing released and dropped out the bottom edge of the door finally opening the door. It looks like the outer latch is toast with something broken internally. I have ordered a new latch because I did not want to take a chance on a used part only to have this happen again in the near future.

Your advice has been right on the button all the way through the process, resulting in absolutely no destroyed parts....even the screws are reuseable with this last trick that I outlined above. If I had to do this again, I would very definitely advise going right to the inside of the B-Pillar even before trying to remove the door card. It turned out to be absolutely the very best way to go.

Cheers from the States,

Graydog

 

Fantastic! Congratulations, demon tweek with the screws too!

So it was a failure in the sealed outer. There is (I deduce) a gunspring in there (coiled flat spring) and I expect it has come undone or the ratched failed somehow. Anyway, GREAT result and no harm of any sort to the car. Congrats again.

Greg