None of the big guys in the luxury car market make much money from the high end saloons their cash cows are the entry level models 1 and 3 for BMW and C class for Merc.

TATA is already entering Jaguar in this market, I hope they do well.

 

You're not wrong about Ford essentially saving Jaguar. The biggest issue for Jaguar was moving beyond the shoddy workmanship, cheap components, and poor reliability of the British Leyland-era cars straight out of the factory. Ford made the changes necessary and invested the capital needed to bring Jaguar up to scratch, then did what they had to do in the styling department with the trading of the blocky XJ40 design for the more traditional X300 design. Same car pretty much, just rounder, haha. So much praise to Ford for keeping the brand alive.

What I was more referring to was the red-tape we get between sister companies under a primary company, where they have their model line ups and halo cars, and company X cannot have their flagship car outperform company Y's, even though company X's car has the potential to match or even exceed company Y's car, as dictated by the parent company. Certainly makes sense from a business standpoint, but damned if us brand loyalists don't feel like shouting "you can make the damned car, do it!" and "stop teasing us with concepts, and build the damned thing!". I know for sure that in an parallel universe where I have the money, and Jaguar actually built it, I would certainly have picked an R-Coupe over the current iteration F-Type.

 

Thanks Daim, I am quite out of date. I had no idea Jaguar sales had grown so well in the last few years. Damn near 150,000 units in 2016 is great news. Thanks for putting me right.
Ggreg

 

so, your saying that when Ford took over ... they took our high line Jaguar xjs and moved it to Austin so they could keep charging premium for it and boggered the jagaurs to sell ford mondeo's to generate cash flow for Jaguar.. and the S type/ Lincoln LS...
I agree!

 

Jonathan,

PLEASE stop writing AUSTIN rather than ASTON. Austin made the Mini. Aston the DB5...

 

i heard that the new F type is a lot of Ford MUSTANG parts, thats why Mustangs are selling world wide, at close to half the cost of F types!

the word is out! along with a ton of aftermarket performance options!

speaking about Ford, have you seen the latest top speed standing mile Ford GT ,293 MPH(yup two hundred ninty three miles per hour).

at TEXAS mile , last week , move over Veyron!!

 

No, the Mustang has nothing to do with the F Type.

Due to the Ford licenses expiring this year/next year, all cars built at the moment are purely Jaguar based... That is also why Jaguar is dropping the AJV8. Although a Jaguar development, it is patented under FoMoCo and Jaguar pays fees to build their own engine.

That is alsomwhy Jaguar is working on a new turbocharged I6 on the ingenium base (should replace all non-supercharged V8s) and will be purchasing V8s from BMW for the R models.

Volvo is going through the same at the moment. 2018 all licenses expire. The V40 will be mashed and replaced, the S60 and V60 replaced and all engines and platforms replaced by own made ones...

 

That makes for smart business, especially with all the money required for R&D in a world requiring tighter and tighter emissions standards, with greater efficiency and output for engines.

What it also makes for is a dashing of my hopes that Jaguar will take two of those Ingenium Inline 6's and make another V12

 

THAT is something that has been hinted a few times.

To turn a 6 into a 12 is not a hard job... As said by the V12 designers...

And since Jaguar is trying to get into the proper premium segment i.e. luxury market, a V12 is standard (see BMW 760li or Mercedes S600).

On top of that, a V12 powered Range Rover would also be a better choice... Or for a future super car (like a reborn XJ220 maybe called XJ300 ). Sure, the BMW V8 is a "useable" engine (hasn't got the best reputation but fine at the moment) but not perfect.

Also, the I6 would quickly replace the 90° V6 as fitted to the F-Type, XE, XF... Compressors will go, in with turbos...

 

Here a press release from last year...:
Jaguar Land Rover readies Ingenium straight six for launch in 2017 by CAR Magazine

Should be launched this year... The return of a modern legend

 

but it is still only 6 cylinders, remember the fiasco over the XJ220 when they dropped the V12!

like has been said " nobody NEEDS a 12 cylinders" its just the talk that makes interest!

no doubt a MODERN 6 will more than be enough!

anyone know why they are going to be an INLINE 6 instead of V 6?

of course we know that Toyota has made some very good inline 6s!

i have seen some with over 1000hp driving on the streets of Austin TX.

guess time will tell!

i get some nice remarks when people see the Jaguar V12 power stickers on mine, lot of talk about the engine,and they beg to see it! LOL.

 

The ingenium series is a modular engine. It is easier to turn an I4 into an I6 rather than into a V6. On top of that, the V6 lacks the superior smoothness over a V6 (no V6 will run as smooth as an I6).

The current V6 is an adaptation of the V8. It is a 90° V6 (rare, I only know of the PRV V6 being another 90° V6 and a couple of others from Ferrari/Alfa and co) and shares it's setup with the AJV8 series. But again, it is covered by the Ford patents and is licensed to Jaguar... AGAIN.

 

i do know that GM built some 90* V6s.

the 1987 Buick turbo was one that comes to mind, voted the fastest production car od the year!

the GM V6 ,90* was the 4.3L , a very good smooth running engine, and some over 400K miles on them still gonig strong!

they had an internal balance shaft to control vibrations, roller camshaft,long runner ports, sequential FI, a good engine for the era.

today the GM engine i like is the V6 4 cam 4 valve,3.6L, twin turbo in the Cadillac ATS V, desigined by OPEL, built in usa!

drove one for a month, a great performer, good MPG.

what brings these smaller displacement engines up to requirements, is the 7,8, 10 speed transmissions!

 

[QUOTE=ronbros;1652758]i do know that GM built some 90* V6s.

the 1987 Buick turbo was one that comes to mind, voted the fastest production car od the year!QUOTE]

Yes the Buick GN 3.8L turbo 90° V6. Australia got that engine in the Commodore and I've seen guys here make 600hp and multiple (read LOTS) of 1/4 mile runs on the development mule which started out as a stock SC 3800 stock internals and only bolt on mods for 600hp broke transmissions mostly, never and engine.

 

Although the "downsizing" craze, which we Europeans have been suffering from the last decade, is coming to an end... Instead, modular engines are coming...

A fix displacement of 0.5l/cylinder and simply adding or removing a cylinder.

BMW has a family of 3-, 4- and 6-cylinder engines which share the entire common structure (bore/stroke, head shape, valve number, exhaust and intake port diameter etc.).

Mercedes is now starting a modular engine. They are dumping the V6 engines and returning to the I6 versions. All with 0.5l//cylinder.

Volvo had that setup around 20 years ago... 4 cylinder with 1.8-2.0l, 5 cylinder with 2.0-2.5l and a 6 cylinder with 2.5-3.0l. Most common were the 2.0l, 2.5l and 3.0l. All designed by Porsche engineering (yes, you read right, Volvo used a Porsche consultant for their engines ).

Jaguar is going the same route. I guess we will be seeing a smaller 3 cylinder ingenium engine sometime soon. Either for the XE or maybe a smaller XD or so... The smaller "compact" segment is something Jaguar should be looking into. Kind of like the BMW 1 series (which also has the possibility of a 3 cylinder engine).

 

stop and think of what you say!

with that outlook of future, all manufactures will have the same engines !!

and nothing will be special or different, all ordinary transportations.

and probably no personal modifications ALLOWED !

all vehicles will have a payment plan, and when payed in full vehicle will be automatic
RECYCLED<< that must be a great new future for car people.

it has been said the future is Hydrogen cell cars, they will all be the same shape(like an oversized Jelly bean), even the same color, so as to not disrupt mental images!

and the final, will be to do away with ALL personal transportations!

Luckly, i wont be around for the Brave new world!

we dont think that way in USA, most left the old countries to come to a much free way of life!

 

Ron, you say exactly that, what I think! The future is full of equal engines. The only difference being a speaker in the exhaust altering the sound to a fake V8/I5/etc.

Basically every brand will be looking at a square 86x86 mm cylinder (stroke and bore). No long stroke. No short stroke. No small bore. No large bore. All bor-ing.

Not that I don't like a well made I6 engine, but if they all sound the same, then why bother.

I'm not that old, but I remember that when I was young, (and that is only a mere 20 years ago!) cars had loads of different displacements. Sometimes even having really odd numbers, like 1.350l or 6.75l Nowadays cars nearly always have the same engine sizes and layouts. Same dual cam 4 valve head. No 5 valve OHC. No 3 v DOHC. No 2 valve DOHC anymore. Every engine comes from the factory with a turbo, so the exhaust sounds are fake (a turbo distroys the natural sounds an engine will make).

Nearly all cars will be mixers. Kind of reminds me of this video


The future of cars are Jetson sounding exhausts

 

It is also being predicted that a child born today will never get the opportunity to "drive" a car in the future.

 

:icon_

me; maybe No sense!

 

In the country of the Autobahns, a car driver's paradise, they've just passed a law allowing selfdriving cars...

Every year less and less young people are doing their licenses...

Means: the future is either mass transit (busses, trains, trams, ...) or selfdriving cars.

I'm not looking forward to being driven by a robotic car to my destination. I'd prefer to walk!