Since the latest navigation disks for my 2008 XKR are 2013-2014 I decided to finally buy a set in case their availability dissapears. From the dealer they are still $200.
I found some on line at carsnavigation,com for $99.

They just turned up last week and are obviously poor quality pirate copies, clearly made on a PC DVD burner. It turns out the company is in Bosnia. I am a Software Engineer so am already familiar enough with the flood of virusses and malicious code coming out of Russia and surrounding states, so I will not even try putting these in my car.

They also refused to refund (the emails are very rude, insulting and threatening) so I had to do a credit card chargeback, now I keep getting intimidating emails from him.

AVOID CARSNAVIGATION.COM

 

Great tip. Thank you for posting.

 

Good to know. Thanks.

 

You are at fault and being unreasonable.

You bought halfprice non-oem navigation discs.
From a company that represented itself as no more than that.
They produced and shipped internationally at great cost.
They absolutely delivered everything they promised. You did not.
You kept the discs and stiffed them out of the money- based on a hunch that may nor may not be true regarding malicious code.

If you are so concerned about buying the genuine article how come you went past all the Jaguar authorized sources in this country to cause someone in a third-world country significant expense??

What you have is buyers remorse, the 'deal' that looked good to you going to a dark site to buy a cd, are now reversed. The deal hasnt changed, you have.

 

>> You are at fault and being unreasonable.

Wow. So you think illegally pirating software and using false advertising and lying to sell it, is all the fault of the customer/victim. I see...
And you know all the above how?... Do you have connections with this company? It very much sounds like it, except that your ASSumptions are factually wrong in many places.

>> From a company that represented itself as no more than that.

Actually, I have mutliple emails from them claiming they are REAL OEM Jaguar disks. Even after I asked for a refund because they are obviously made on someone's PC, they were still claiming they are real OEM disks. Before I even placed the order I emailed them first to check/confirm they had exactly the right Jaguar part number in stock.

>> They absolutely delivered everything they promised. You did not.

No they absolutely didn't. They sent me fake disks and they took my real money. What part of any of that did I fail to deliver on?

>> You kept the discs and stiffed them out of the money
Not at all. I tried multiple times via email to negotiate a refund without going to the credit card company, and told them multiple times that I'm quite happy to send the disks back, they just need to cover the postage as I don't see why I should be out of pocket for being the victim of their scam. Yet they continue to refuse to pay for the return postage, simply because they know the real value of what they sent me is less than even the cost of a return label. They're also threatening to illegally withdraw more money from my card in 10 days unless I mail the disks back at my expense. Nice guys huh?

>> based on a hunch that may nor may not be true
OEM disks don't come on purple writeable DVDs, or have poorly scanned labels, or inkjet-printed inserts where the ink runs when it gets wet.

>> to cause someone in a third-world country significant expense??
Your sympathies are VERY misplaced. Does it not even cross your tiny mind that these are criminals that shouldn't have tried to rip me off?

>> a dark site
There's nothing "dark" about them. They were like the 6th hit in a simple Google search. They're on the Internet and masquerading as a legitimate company, and claiming that the disks are OEM. Its not like they're hiding behind TOR on the darkweb or something.

>> What you have is buyers remorse,
Don't be ridiculous. What you have is not the first clue.

 

Even a child can tell by going to that website that it is all bootleg material.

Why else would it be a fraction of the cost?

Who looks for and buys a product from a site that has no contact info whatsoever nor any information about the company. And expects to get the same thing they would at a Jaguar dealer. LOL

You have a disc that gives you what you were looking for, updated maps and it was shipped to you at some expense. What they have is below zero. Just pointing out the rationale that you are missing.

What you are trying to tell us is that 'beware the half price discs maybe bootleg'
I say you knew that well- its impossible not to. Especially if you are in software.

 

BTW- You Absolutely did the right thing.
This guy is a thief if he is charging $100 for bootleg.
It could be argued that well he is providing a service.
But it too much for just something he stole.

 

>> Even a child can tell by going to that website that it is all bootleg material.

Really? I've successfully bought plenty of used car parts from legitimate breakers that have websites that look far worse than that. Here for example: Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market Anyway, like I said, they confirmed they were genuine Jag disks before I bought them.

>> Why else would it be a fraction of the cost?
Because they're used or old stock (they are 2013 disks FFS). Also Jag parts definately cost different in different markets.

>> You have a disc that gives you what you were looking for,
I'm not stupid enough to trust it in my car.

>> and it was shipped to you at some expense. What they have is below zero.

Aww my heart bleeds for the poor little lying criminal *******s. Maybe they'll think first next time before trying to scam another Jag owner.

 

Too much? Thats your only reason? How about HE STOLE IT.

 

I doubt you can be consoled to be objective and rational, even just to be able to see both sides of coin. But I will try.

You knew as you stated, Jaguar was charging $200 and you did not want to take that route. What does that imply to a bystander spectating this play?

Look how unreasonable you are being: the site you posted has FULL contact information, address and telephone numbers, here in the USA no less!! And you are saying that site is worse than the pirate site you bought the DVD from.

Incidentally, you got a service worth more than $200 for free. Its not easy to copy the nav dvd. Nor would any of us take the legal risk doing it.

You realize that if he was trying to sell fake dvds it would not be so blatantly printed on an inkjet printer. They do that because everyone buying it knows its bootleg.

 

See it this way and you might see why the situation turned adversarial.

Mr. Bosnia is selling bootleg copy of OEM DVD for a bargain. He is selling to everyone that knowingly buys bootleg. You claim its NOT OEM, it has some other shareware/virus/ malicious code on it- He claims it is absolutely OEM. You guys talk past each other. He thinks you scammed him. And really how can anyone deny that. He is the only one who lost any money.

Your only defense that you did not know its bootleg has weak merit, because you knew where the original is sold and for how much. And that Mr. Bosnia site screams pirated software.

 

>> Mr. Bosnia is selling bootleg copy of OEM DVD for a bargain.

Wrong. Mr. Bosnia is stealing and committing fraudulent deception by claiming his illegal copies are real OEM disks. Sorry but you can't just rationalise away the fact that he's actually conducting criminal activity and scamming people.

If it was advertised as bootleg or at least I wasn't repeatedly lied to about it being OEM, then I'd be perfectly fine with it because I just wouldn't have bought it in the first place. If someone takes your money and gives you something other than what you paid for, THATS FRAUD.

In case anyone else is still bothering to follow this thread, I got a personal email earlier from carsnavigation.com at least strongly suggesting this "Queen and Country" dude is actually him/them too, So I'm done here. My whole point was to warn the decent people here about this sham company. I think "queen and Country"'s clear lack of morals and lame replies have done nothing other than a stellar job of backing up my point. Peace out.

 

Anyone who knowingly buys a bootleg anything is buying from a crook, particularly when the seller is in another country. JustNiz obviously realized that and protected himself by using a credit card so he could dispute that charge in the event the item was not as represented by the seller. Since the seller would not authorize a return at his expense with a full refund, he left JustNiz no choice but to dispute the charge.

JustNiz posted this thread to warn Forum members about this vendor. Instead of being thanked, he gets slammed. Why? Because he stiffed the seller? Why feel sorry for the seller?

So what do we know about the seller? Only two facts: (1) he's a bootlegger and, therefore, a crook; and, (2) he's in Bosnia. Is it a stretch to assume that some or all of his sales proceeds may be used to support terrorism? Not in that part of the world.

I don't feel sorry for the seller at all. He knew the risks of what he was doing. Just part of the costs of his business.

Thanks, Just Niz, for the head's up on this seller. But wait a sec - I'm not going to let you off the hook just yet.

The price from the Jag dealer was $200, but you decided to Buy Bosnia to save $100. How did that work out for you? Put a dollar value on your time and aggravation and maybe you've just added $50 or more to your quest. Your new cost is now $250, and maybe more. The law of unintended consequences.

I understand shopping around to save $$$ on the cost of parts. I do it all the time. It was not your fault that it didn't work out the way you expected. And, IMHO, your being criticized for what you did was misguided and undeserved. Your aggravation and this controversy would not have happened if you had bought the nav disc from a Jaguar dealer.

Hindsight is always 20-20.

 

Thanks Stuart. Since its you I'll reply one more time:

Before the disks arrived I wasn't aware that carsnavigation.com were in Bosnia, or anywhere else. There's nothing on their website to suggest that they are or are not in the USA. Also the fact that they have a .com domain address rather than .ru or something at least somewhat suggests they are US-based.

Both prior to and even after purchase, I was told by them that the disks were genuine and had no way to know otherwise, until they arrived. As a software developer I automatically assumed that at $200 a pop, the OEM disks would surely have had significant copy protection on them, exactly to prevent low-tech piracy with home burners, especially when you consider Jag have full control of the player unit too, which means they could very easily at least implement some non-standard format that home PC burners simply can't read. Or maybe they in fact do and I have bad/non-functional copies or even blank disks. I'm certainly not risking putting them in my car to find out what actually happens.

Like I said earlier, I don't think you can automatically assume that just because they were 'only' $99 they must be bootleg. I've seen plenty of gently used genuine OEM nav DVDs changing hands on ebay etc for much less, and I've also seen and successfully bought miscellaneous other genuine OEM Jag parts at significantly different prices in different places/markets (i.e MUCH lower than dealer prices).

I didn't mention terrorism once, thats all you. I just stated that the majority of computer virusses and hack attacks for whatever reason do in fact originate in/come out of Russia and surrounding countries like Bosnia (and also China).

As for stiffing the seller: again, I'm quite happy to send the disks back as soon as they pay for return postage, (but they've already made it clear that they won't do that, presumably because blank dvds cost about 25 cents). They're actually useless to me (other than as **** drinks coasters maybe) since there's no way I'm going to risk putting them in my car. Actually I'll probably send them to Jaguar or Navteq or whoever it is selling the genuine OEM disks these days, and let them take it further.

 

Sounds like a pot deal gone wrong- over expectations and not the quality of the product.

Its a lesson for all.

What does not add up is: why when looking for quality, authenticity, and safety! we circumvent the authorized source to buy from an absolute unknown rouge source at a suspicious price. We all do it. The answer can only be, we were looking to get away with it.

 

Stuart,
If he was your client, we would have established 2 things.
1. he is more cognizant than most of the existence of said 'home burners'
2. he went to home burners.

 

I think that virtually everyone who is computer literate today knows that software can be pirated. JustNiz just knows more about the details of how they do it and the risks of infection. I don't hold that against him. Before deciding to make the purchase, he asked the seller all the right questions and the seller lied and assured him that the disc was genuine. JustNiz was scammed and is a victim. He didn't know that the disc was a bootlegged copy until after he received it.

JustNiz did nothing wrong. He did not intend to buy stolen goods and was tricked by the seller to do so.

The seller got what he deserved in the end. Sorry, couldn't resist the pun.

 

FWIW and purely by coincidence- I recently spent some time digging round the internet looking for a GPS update for one of my other cars. On this type of vehicle the update is done by thumb drive rather than DVD but it still means feeding new data to the vehicle.

It was obvious from any of the sites found that they had no connection to the OEM of any kind and that the goods being sold were nothing more than a 'black/grey market' copy that had been 'hacked' in one way or another. How else could a seller advertise having products available to fit virtually any model of car sold by a multitude of different OEMs. The chances of it being original never used sealed in an OEM box are similar to finding a box of unopened White Albums at a flea market. I think the OP, given his background in software, was rather naive in not figuring this out. It's probably 'OEM data' being sold, but definitely not on 'OEM DVDs'.

At best, the seller might be honest and that the product works. At worst it buggers up the existing data and freezes the unit. Most people at one time or another install software or data on their computers originating from unknown sources. Yes antivirus programs catch most of the evil stuff but there's always a risk. If you don't like the odds don't take a chance.

As a result of this thread I spent time looking at field experience for the vendor in question. Seems they've been around since 2013 or earlier and I've yet to find one negative comment or complaint.

YMMV.

 

Just asking but I bought a genuwhine Rolex gold watch in HK years ago at a reduced price of $35. Well as I am retired I don't wear a watch anymore so I am putting it up for sale. If interested just drop me a note. I see a used gold Rolex is worth around $10K so this would be a deal at lets say $30.

 

Stuart,

Mr. JustNiz being a computer expert, saw that the site was as shady as they come, a site with no legal recourse provided, and no product description. So he got all the assurances he needed in private communications.

I believe Mr.JustNiz was looking to buy from an illicit/shady source, as long as he got what he was after at a discount. He was disappointed when he discovered the product from a shady source was worth only what he paid for.