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I'm getting inheritance money some time in the near future and I told my wife that, for my mid-life crisis (just turned 50) I wanted a convertible luxury/sporty car. I'm sure you all know the usual suspects that fit that bill: Mercedes SL550, BMW 650i, Lexus SC430 and the XK were what I narrowed it down to. Some requirements were wood interior (the more the better), quick acceleration, convertible top, roomy and high enough for a fat-*** like me with a bad back, and not an absolute fortune.
We already have a convertible Murano as our family car (me, wife and son) and an FJ Cruiser for our SUV, so this is going to be just for me and sometimes me and my son or wife. One of my simple pleasures in life is just driving around, so it'll be driven many times a week at a minimum.
The SL drove well but was just too boring on the inside with plastic (not much wood) everywhere. Eh, on the inside it just seemed like any other car. I wanted to feel like I was driving a luxurious car. Plus, where I live on the north side of Atlanta, these cars are everywhere.
The 650i drives and size-wise is very similar to the XK, but like the Merc, they are everywhere, and just eh, not as classy.
I loved the interior of the SC430 with all the wood and leather, but it isn't that roomy and the acceleration from a stop is very lacking. No Gs pushing me back thrill.
Other cars like the Fiat 124, Saturn Sky and the like are just way too small or close to the ground for me to be comfortable. And mustangs, vettes and such are bland on the inside with no luxury feel.
My wife drove some of the other cars with me and she also feels the Jag is the one she likes best
Anyway, I wanted to officially introduce myself. I've already asked questions and I'm sure I'll be asking more. I've been looking nationwide at different options to see what I want, price ranges and the sort. Can't wait!
One of my simple pleasures in life is just driving around, so it'll be driven many times a week at a minimum.
Agree this is one of the greatest joys in life.
Originally Posted by Aloha Bob
My wife drove some of the other cars with me and she also feels the Jag is the one she likes best
Yep, pretty important to me too.
btw, my wife drove the XK for the first time ever this weekend. By driving, I mean that she backed it out of the driveway and parked it on the street. It took her almost 5 minutes and she parked it crooked, I might add. After I dried the tears of laughter from my face, we agreed she will only occupy the passenger seat going forward:-)
I'm pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to find anything more fitting than an X150 vert.....it just punches all of the right buttons!
Keep us informed on your search/progress and, of course, it didn't happen unless there are pictures too!
Look at it this way, the Jag is the "working man's Aston. Working man here refers to one who is not part of the leisure class, but most likely a Barrister, minister, or some other profession capable of providing a comfortable living and a sturdy wage, which is
very different from having wealth. Few, if any other cars will fill these shoes. your instincts and observations are correct and sound, however, I might suggest you add an R to your search. You'll have your Jaaaag, and performance to rival the Aston. Cheers.
Look at it this way, the Jag is the "working man's Aston. Working man here refers to one who is not part of the leisure class, but most likely a Barrister, minister, or some other profession capable of providing a comfortable living and a sturdy wage, which is
very different from having wealth. Few, if any other cars will fill these shoes. your instincts and observations are correct and sound, however, I might suggest you add an R to your search. You'll have your Jaaaag, and performance to rival the Aston. Cheers.
In England, Jaguars were known as the working man's Rolls Royce
Sensible man's Aston, perhaps. (but they are a very recent addition to the culture)
For the longest time, while Lyons was still around, it was the only car that offered more than one thing- sports, luxury, affordability and sex appeal (to use a term that makes sense today)
One thing still remains, but it ended with the XKR, its the closest an average man will come to experiencing a super-exotic built right.
I have similar interests in cars and actually have experience with every model you mentioned.
SC430 - Somehow this is one of the most disappointing cars I've ever driven. They somehow made it ride mediocre, handle mediocre, and accelerate mediocre. Honestly have had more fun in the same era LS430. Decently built cars though.
SL550; I have experience with the R230 body; specifically an aunt who bought an SL65 new. The power was outstanding and really what I enjoyed. The ABC suspension made it handle fairly flat for a 4500lb car. They are a mess in terms of reliability, even in base trim versus flagship trim. That suspension can easily have $5k+ repair bills, and even thousands with pure DIY repair. The interior really did not impress either. Honestly if it were not the V12 TT, I wouldn't even look at it. But when you get the V12 TT in either the SL600 or SL65, both are insane expensive to operate and questionable on reliability compared to these Jaguars.
650i - BMW in this era IIRC had plenty of issues with the DI engines and coking up the intake valves. I think they are neat, but look to me like a big 3 series coupe. They lack the distinct style of the eighties 6 series and the 8 series of the nineties. No experience driving them, only the 7-Series with the same engine; those are absolute nightmares to run long term; a lot of issues independent of the powertrain.
The X150 XKR, even an old one like my 07, which is a very reliable car, decently quick with 420HP and 413ftlbs, handles ok and rides nice. It's a really solid compromise, which is really what any GT car is. I have not driven mine back to back with an Aston of the same era yet; but I have driven DB9s. It feels close, and the Jaguar is some much less to run. That said, I'm still probably adding one at one point, but not getting rid of the XKR which I daily most of the year (same as I did for 9 years in my other XKR, a X100 XKR Vert).
These cars are VERY easy to live with. I'd recommend driving both an early XKR and a 5L XKR (2010+); the issues with the early 5L cars and water pumps, at least to me,is a minor thing to suck up for the extra power; others can chime in on that. CeeJay I know will mention how I think he's had 1 replacement, and TBerg has had several but puts on a lot of miles; it'll be interesting if those two chime in to clarify as it's neat to see variety of experiences.
SL550; I have experience with the R230 body; specifically an aunt who bought an SL65 new. The power was outstanding and really what I enjoyed. The ABC suspension made it handle fairly flat for a 4500lb car. They are a mess in terms of reliability, even in base trim versus flagship trim. That suspension can easily have $5k+ repair bills, and even thousands with pure DIY repair. The interior really did not impress either. Honestly if it were not the V12 TT, I wouldn't even look at it. But when you get the V12 TT in either the SL600 or SL65, both are insane expensive to operate and questionable on reliability compared to these Jaguars.
I 100% agree with this assessment. R230 SLs are money pits and pinnacle of bad engineering decisions. I had many SLs, but R230 had such bad reliability that I would not consider another Mercedes again. R230 is a $100K Yugo.
I 100% agree with this assessment. R230 SLs are money pits and pinnacle of bad engineering decisions. I had many SLs, but R230 had such bad reliability that I would not consider another Mercedes again. R230 is a $100K Yugo.
And Mercedes owners say that Jaguars are badly made!
As 80srule stated, I've had my share of water pumps (at least 4 including one that didn't last 60 days), but they've never left me stranded, They've either rattled so much that you've heard it before the loss of major amounts of coolant or they've leaked a little at a time. But after over 150,000 miles, I still look forward to getting in the big cat everyday, washing and detailing her myself a couple of times per week, and just staring at the classic shape, a hallmark of nearly every Jaguar design. For the prices you can pick up a nice 5.0L car nowadays, the thrill of mashing the happy pedal for the first time on an open stretch of road will astonish you. It's truly intoxicating. Although I haven't been in a couple of years, I used to have it on the track a few times a year and it held its own with much more track designed sports cars. The 5.0L's torque and power band is just magnificent even today when economy cars get 500 hp engines. Go splurge!
And Mercedes owners say that Jaguars are badly made!
Unfortunately, everyone says that...
Originally Posted by tberg
As 80srule stated, I've had my share of water pumps (at least 4 including one that didn't last 60 days), but they've never left me stranded, They've either rattled so much that you've heard it before the loss of major amounts of coolant or they've leaked a little at a time. But after over 150,000 miles, I still look forward to getting in the big cat everyday, washing and detailing her myself a couple of times per week, and just staring at the classic shape, a hallmark of nearly every Jaguar design. For the prices you can pick up a nice 5.0L car nowadays, the thrill of mashing the happy pedal for the first time on an open stretch of road will astonish you. It's truly intoxicating. Although I haven't been in a couple of years, I used to have it on the track a few times a year and it held its own with much more track designed sports cars. The 5.0L's torque and power band is just magnificent even today when economy cars get 500 hp engines. Go splurge!
Well Put! And damn, you have 150K miles on a 5.0L? that's great to hear!
And Mercedes owners say that Jaguars are badly made!
It goes further, doesn't it, Germans have a highly condescending view of British design and manufacturing. Jaguar takes the top prize. They laugh in private about it, particularly how a machine can have character.
Its understandable and in the same regimented robotic vein as how Germany has miraculously made no contribution to music, film nor comedy.
Like how a thoroughbred laughs at a spirited wild horse.
All I know is if only German sports cars were the only thing available, I would have never been able to afford one, particularly in my youth when it mattered.
It goes further, doesn't it, Germans have a highly condescending view of British design and manufacturing. Jaguar takes the top prize. They laugh in private about it, particularly how a machine can have character.
Its understandable and in the same regimented robotic vein as how Germany has miraculously made no contribution to music, film nor comedy.
Like how a thoroughbred laughs at a spirited wild horse.
All I know is if only German sports cars were the only thing available, I would have never been able to afford one, particularly in my youth when it mattered.
Well, the Germans did produce some vaguely-known classical composers, but only The Scorpions, James Last and Boney M since then
As car production has been refined to the point that all manufacturers produce cars the same way there is little difference these days. Mainstream producers are producing very competent and reliable cars. Jaguar are no long building car any differently to their competitors, so why should they be significantly better or worse? However, listening to the level of problems my colleagues seem to have with their German cars, I get the feeling that the Germans have pushed the boundaries on life-expectancy of the components that they use, making being "just good enough" into an art form. At their margins, they should be able to afford to do better
I think it's interesting that we had pretty much the same feelings on these. I'm having fun learning and browsing while waiting.
You'll find something! Test driving stuff is fun even when disappointed. There are garbage cars I wish I'd still bought; I'd passed on a Maserati Bora in the late 2000s when they were cheap, same with a Testarossa when they 50k for an ok one. I know they would have been needy,
Originally Posted by SinF
I 100% agree with this assessment. R230 SLs are money pits and pinnacle of bad engineering decisions. I had many SLs, but R230 had such bad reliability that I would not consider another Mercedes again. R230 is a $100K Yugo.
One of my favorite cars I've ever owned was a Mercedes 560SEL (Bruno Sacco was a genius I feel). The R107 and W126 I hold as some of the finest cars to ever come out of Mercedes post WWII in terms of build quality and overall longevity; and it doesn't hurt that the styling looks as good now as it did back then. I would love a nice 560SL or 560SEC at one point...
And Mercedes owners say that Jaguars are badly made!
I hear it from fellow BMW owners. My X3 is so cheaply made in so many areas. They'll trash Jaguars then point out you really need to replace the whole damn cooling system every 10 years and 100k miles. It's all plastic trash. That car will likely be replaced with a Lexus LS460L or X351 Jaguar XJL (preferably in ultimate form with the blown 5L).
Worst cars I've ever owned were a D3 Audi A8L W12 and 2 B5 Audi A4 2.8s. Like I mentally feel like if someone did a spree killing in Ingolstadt that I'd go, ah, Audi owner.
Well, the Germans did produce some vaguely-known classical composers, but only The Scorpions, James Last and Boney M since then
As car production has been refined to the point that all manufacturers produce cars the same way there is little difference these days. Mainstream producers are producing very competent and reliable cars. Jaguar are no long building car any differently to their competitors, so why should they be significantly better or worse? However, listening to the level of problems my colleagues seem to have with their German cars, I get the feeling that the Germans have pushed the boundaries on life-expectancy of the components that they use, making being "just good enough" into an art form. At their margins, they should be able to afford to do better
They are a victim of their own propaganda...
Look at how the Swiss have created and laboriously maintained the narrative that there is a need for expensive hand wound watches to tell time accurately.
Germans created a narrative of keeping a car 20+ years. Unfortunately for them, not only are people only keeping them 5 years tops, they are being held to the standard of longevity they created, but they created that through simplicity, now people want features- the antithesis of durability.
I love BoneyM, sorry cant let Germany have that, 3 out of 4 were British, and the 4th was Dutch. But yes all fabricated with disingenuous smoke and mirrors. You know the lead vocalist never ever sang. Leave it to the Germans.
07-08-2019, 02:06 PM
It's official, I'm getting a Jag! ...eventually
