It amuses me that people think that TATA management is so involved in the low-level stuff. They are not. These things are managed by JLR management, a number of whom are ex BMW. Their job is to return a profit by making good cars and selling them in large enough numbers. TATA has given JLR huge resources to become competitive and produce new models but given them the freedom to do it their way. You could blame the JLR management if you must but blaming TATA is actually barking up the wrong tree. TATA has hired good people and told them to get on with it.

If you look at the component suppliers JLR uses, they are very similar to the rest of the premium brands and those drop the ball at least as often as JLR but no one bangs on about it because they are mainly German and have a good reputation.

If you want a more complete view of the TATA synergy, take a look at "Jewels in the Crown" by Ray Hutton.

 

Lack of Jaguar reliability is entirely true, but this is not categorically different from what contemporary German brands are offering.

I think two trends are making it impossible to deliver reliable premium cars - a) consumer push for tech, b) government regulations pushing for emissions and fuel economy.

a) Consumer push for technology takes manufacturers out of their area of expertise. Ultimately, car makers and parts suppliers are hardware people, but consumers expect them to compete and deliver similar products to tech giants. Apple is $1+ Trillion USD company and it produces $1000+ smartphones. Consumer expectations that car manufacturers would provide similar level of tech at a fraction of cost (~$300 per screen) is simply unrealistic.

b) Almost all new engine tech is aimed at producing better fuel economy. The trade offs - increased costs and decreased reliability are placed on consumer shoulders. Single cam naturally aspirated I4 with no variable timing mated to 6 speed AT could easily last forever with just oil changes. However, you can't sell such setup anymore, it can't meet all the requirements and still deliver sufficient power. So that I4 turns into turbocharged I4 with VANOS and direct injection mated to 10+ speed AT and all that extra stuff just keep breaking. What does consumer gets out of all this tech? Measly 10-20% fuel savings and 10-20% more power. However, that setup requires major surgery at just 100K.

/rant

 

Few in this country want to put two and two together. That's why they were able to get Americans to boycott French Fries, an American invention.
Our president says it best, fake news can be sold here, for the rest of the world we have to use sanctions.
Yes when I bought my XKR, JLR was number1 on the same JD powers list.
They used absolutely the best parts money could buy, not just available. A Ford engine was not good enough, A British made Ford engine was not good enough for them, they fought and built their own engine plant inside one of the best engine plants in the world.
Did not just use a Ford transmission, but the best on the market at that time.

So what has changed in the new Jaguars?? I have been out of touch. Clearly they now make more entry level cars for folks with a lot more problems in life in general.

Speaking of putting 2+2, Yes if Tata management even had the slightest hand, it would hilariously imply that they were better than Audi.
Audi management wishes they bought JLR. Have you seen this: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/e...-jaguar-i-pace

 

It's interesting to note that the vaunted German brands of Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Porsche are also below the industry average. One thing I've always personally struggled with about these JD Power IQS rankings is the weight that's given to each issue or defect. Does a failed gearbox have the same weight as a radio with poor reception? Many of the 'problems' customers complain about are a lack of understanding of how a component or feature operates.

It's actually laughable that Kia and sister brand Hyundai rank so high when they currently have nearly 2 million vehicles requiring a massive recall for possible failed engines due to incorrect rod bearings being installed.

An interesting exercise would be to find out how much influence the JD Power rankings have on a consumer's decision on which vehicle to purchase. If it did, many brands wouldn't be around.

 

Was it BMW or Mercedes that said "There are no bad (insert company name)s, merely bad owners" ?

 

Exactly. My glovebox damper broke. Jaguar is crap! LOL.

IMO, it goes back to the stigma. Jaguar just can't shake it. I have friends with Audis and Mercedes that are always complaining about common repairs and repair costs but the joke is on me because I have the Jag. LOL.

My son has a 2012 Sonata. Great car so far but he gets a recall notice about something at least once a year. So far so good with the engine at 75k miles... They did increase the engine warranty to 120K miles or 12 years.

 

Perception is reality. Average car buyer thinks Jags are junk. JLR is not doing much to disprove them.

Best thing they could do is offer a 10 year/100k mile bumper to bumper transferable warranty. Look what it did for Hyundai after they built crap in the beginning. If it would bankrupt the company to offer that warranty then they are actually building junk. JLR is doing what they always did. Brilliant chassis and suspension while the rest rattles and falls apart. Ford electronics stayed the execution. It's up to TATA rehabilitate.


This is why the resale is so low on Jags. Your buying the life remaining. It's all about reliability. Reliability is quality.

Edit: Somebody brought up tech earlier. I don't want more tech. I want a knob or button. I do not want a touchscreen to change radio station or the temperature. Yes I'd like streaming bluetooth for my calls and music. I DO want a nav system that's as good as a Garmin that's free to update. WTF I can by an $89 Garmin at Walmart and it blow away an OEM system and has free lifetime maps? My Lexus costs $400 to update and it sucks. Would I spend $30 to update it? Yes. $400? No "F" in way. Hell, you can't even bleed the brakes without a laptop anymore. I shouldn't have to get pirated software and cables to bleed my brakes. They can go have intercourse with themselves.

 

NBCat, sharing a guarded secret (and only due to protection of anonymity)

In my industry, consumers are entirely unaware (as I was until I became a manufacturer in the belly of the beast) the publications in the ranking business are hedonistically corrupt and commercialized.
Their rankings a farce beyond wildest imagination. Boy if the consumers only knew.
So its not just 'we will give you an A+ in exchange for $$$'-- its 'Send us to the Riviera, lets call it a road test, inform the Ritz we will need the top floor, we will make sure your pesky competitor will get an F. You should become our premier advertiser so as to back our portrayal of your success. We will do you a favour and keep the Veyron for 3 years so as to show we are in it for the long run'

They came up with a ranking system as a means of intimidation and bullying. And they exercise absolute power of extortion.
I have had other manufacturers call me in tears "They said they are going to give me a negative review and ruin my company"
Several friends perished trying to take a stand.
This is how absolute their perverse power is. You could get them the prostitutes they ask for and get them busted, their lives upside down, they will be able to shut your company down in the flick of a wrist and there is nothing you can do.

I think the public taking back control of the media, as we see happening in this forum is the best thing for all concerned.

 

@Queen and Country You bring up a good point about auto publications. When the Lotus Evora 400 came out, the initial press was good, but nothing tremendous. These are publications reliant on big advertising which Lotus has none of. Now the car has been out a while and the social media and online journalists (which do not have a financial stake) have got seat time and the same car is now brilliant and among the best sports cars ever. When the advertiser bucks are not a consideration, the opinion is much different.

 

Would Jaguar even exist without Ford. Who would have purchased JLR if not Ford as Jaguar was on the way out.
FORD was the best thing that ever happened to Jaguar as they did not go under. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

French fries???? really and them 10 people across the country made a difference?

 

Jaguar has proven it can do better without Ford, with just support from a third world country no less.
The British govt should have bought Jaguar, Just like the US govt bought GM, the largest company at the time.

The old joke was, Jaguar would have to add $10k to the sticker price of every car to pay for advertising. Which makes it less competitive and thereby the ad counterproductive.
This is how it was in no-man's land. You have to make mass market products to pay for advertising. And that is how these publications reduce the quality standards of the world.
Here is proof for thought. When did we have incredible out-of-this-world creativity from independent companies, natural creators like Buggati, Bentley, Jaguar, Aston, the entire golden age of automotive...and how come we dont have independents now, in an age when manufacturing is easier?? The answer is glaring at you, one condition was in the absence of gatekeeper publications.

 

@Queen and Country, JD Power made himself important and the manufacturers trip over themselves to make sure they rank as high as possible. What the public don't get to see, and JD Power sell to the manufacturers at a price that amounts to extortion, is the breakdown of each 'problem' area. I'll wager the bulk of the 'problems' reported have to do with the 'infotainment' systems and other newer technologies that the public are not aware of such as dual-clutch (DCTs) and constantly-variable (CVTs) transmissions. What many customers complain about is a characteristic of normal operation, not a 'problem'.

Personally, I would like to purchase a performance oriented vehicle had have a 'radio delete' option available as it's much more fun to listen to the sound of the engine. The Italian company I worked for years ago offered that and most of the road-going cars were never fitted with a radio.

As for the people with the German cars, I just laugh when they tell me of an issue with their vehicle.

 

NBCat, I agree and have been on the inside track observing the publications shape what priorities public should consider.

If a manufacturer of a coffeemaker omits the thermostat, in order to further raise margins and profits, to be able to afford more advertisement.
The journalists creates a ranking system of coffeemakers that brew the hottest.
I have seen both, the agenda hijacked by clever intent: "we will emphasize the only thing you can do while being quite about all that you get wrong- this will make your competitor's strength look like his weakness"; and the other by ignorance- these reviewers share nothing in common with neither their audience nor the manufacturer. They know nothing about car manufacturing and unlikely buyer of that type of car. So he writes about the only thing he can relate to the infotainment.

 

Indeed and it's usually based on hearsay from an uncle who owned one way back when and this or that allegedly broke. The very author subscribes to this.

So much for objective journalism, not that it exists in the MSM to begin with. I owned two Jags from the 90's and never had any issues other wear and tear items like any other, often simpler, vehicle.

Thankfully I can't imagine many high-end marque buyers being too concerned about what J.D. Power thinks. It's usually people who consider a car a mere transportation appliance that take these reviews like gospel. They'd continue buying Corollas or Camrys regardless.

 

I pay no attention to what JD Power says because it is somewhat widely known in the auto industry that they are, for the most part, for sale. I remember participating in a program that was awarded a "JD Power award for excellence"......it hadn't even been emplimented yet! It was more than obvious to us what was really going on.
Their veracity is questionable so I view this report as suspect and wonder who's hand they are trying to play to with it.

 

You put your finger on it. Unfortunately, for the first time Jaguar is a little more mainstream competing with those big donors, and thus the spotlight on the niggles, which sadly is the glasses they see the world through, for the worst thing something does not the best.

 

XF got dinged for excessive brake dust by JDPower. No less brake dust than any German marque. XE has less brake dust now, but the pads aren't as much bite.

 

[QUOTE=Queen and Country;2089822]Ford was the worst thing that happened to Jaguar.
For the glaring truth that Ford failed with every high end brand its ever purchased.

isn't the 95 to 97 XJ (x300) considered one of the most reliable Jaguars ever produced and credited to Fords efforts to improve quality? Having owned a 96 Vanden plas I can testify that it was the most reliable car I've ever owned. I would have taken that car across the country without hesitation. I put 70000 miles on it in 8 years only having to replace one coil. I recently sold it for a very fair price, much higher than Blue Book because of its condition, after purchasing my 2008 XK which I absolutely love and hope to have the same luck with. But I always heard that the X300 was what changed the perception of Jaguar reliability??

 

Yes, the X300 is very reliable and durable but was it really Ford who is to thank? The car was based on the XJ40 which was developed and introduced to the market right before the Ford takeover. These straight six engines can easily run 300k miles. The 4spd ZF transmissions were also very robust and took regular fluid. The later 4.0L V8's are durable too if you do the tensioner maintenance. I have heard of them in the upper 200k range.

 

Here is were we can find common ground.
What virtue of Jaguar would we attribute to Ford?
The heritage(brand recognition), styling, design, touch&feel, interior, affordability, or would it be what I suspect, reliability due to world class manufacturing.
Well that is the one thing Jaguar is not known for or not benefited from.

Compare by contrast what VW did with Bentley. That car was once the epitome of unreliability.