My first electrical Gremlin in my 2013 XKRS?!?
#41
05-10-2013, 05:40 AM
#42
05-10-2013, 11:12 AM
HAHA! Rscultho if they attempt to ask me if that will suffice...they will not like my answer. Lets review - This annoying sound is reproducible mostly when accelerating, braking, and changing gears. It has occured once with car off and me getting into the seat harshly as I was slipping. But its not truly consistent as you can do all of those actions at different times without a chirp. That is why it is confusing to everyone I think. Here is the lemon law in the great state of Ohio:
May get vehicle replacement (regardless of lost value), 100% refund, or some agreed upon refund and keep the vehicle if the following has been granted to manufacturer within 12 months of purchasing the car and/or 18,000 miles (mine is 6 months, 573 miles when reported - so few miles as car arrived just in time for a bad winter):
1- at least 3 honest attempts to fix the problem, and yet the problem still persists. (Noise Kit will be first attempt or re-torque of suspension? I am thinking noise kit is first attempt as parts were ordered.)
2- in the shop for at least 30 days in the first year of ownership..they gave it back instead of keeping car in their shop. But they had it for 1 day overnight already.
3- 1 problem that may be life threatening to the driver that is not fixed immedately.
My problem I feel will fall under #1. Therefore I must give them at least 3 honest chances to fix it. However if the chirp or noise returns at any time during ownership it goes back under that claim. The more they try and do not fix it, the more they will need to find me a different XKR-S. Of concern is that this is a special vehicle. It is limited to a total of 300 coupes over 3 yrs. I would be willing to accept a used XKR-S in the same color/interior IF the car was not fixed - but some reparations would need to be made as they would be replacing it with a used car. That being said I would hope since this problem has never been heard of in the history of this dealership and one UK tech has also confirmed he has never heard of the problem ever before along with (This will be tough to fix) that they build me a new one as this is possible (2014 model year)....it may end up this way but who knows??
Ohio law suggests that you and your manufacturer work out a deal together without lawyers and such, and I am sure that an agreement could be made apart from - "we want to ship it back to UK and tear it apart and then return it to you". I DO NOT want a gutted car!!! or.. "The car is not malfunctioning, despite the fact we know this is not right or a common problem, live with it". Neither of those will suffice. Hopefully, the noise kit cures the problem now and forever more!!!!
Of concern to me throughout this whole process - not even the UK tech has heard of such a strange problem on a new XK much less an XKR-S. I have a feeling...just a feeling...it will not be so easy to fix.
Thoughts have crossed my mind. Is it a chirp from improper aluminum riveting or welding? Only way to know that would be what? start removing parts from my new supercar? hmmmm...I dont like the idea of it. When you buy a car that costs as much as a house - granted my area is a rather poor one in the states - you expect it to be downright perfect!
Loth
May get vehicle replacement (regardless of lost value), 100% refund, or some agreed upon refund and keep the vehicle if the following has been granted to manufacturer within 12 months of purchasing the car and/or 18,000 miles (mine is 6 months, 573 miles when reported - so few miles as car arrived just in time for a bad winter):
1- at least 3 honest attempts to fix the problem, and yet the problem still persists. (Noise Kit will be first attempt or re-torque of suspension? I am thinking noise kit is first attempt as parts were ordered.)
2- in the shop for at least 30 days in the first year of ownership..they gave it back instead of keeping car in their shop. But they had it for 1 day overnight already.
3- 1 problem that may be life threatening to the driver that is not fixed immedately.
My problem I feel will fall under #1. Therefore I must give them at least 3 honest chances to fix it. However if the chirp or noise returns at any time during ownership it goes back under that claim. The more they try and do not fix it, the more they will need to find me a different XKR-S. Of concern is that this is a special vehicle. It is limited to a total of 300 coupes over 3 yrs. I would be willing to accept a used XKR-S in the same color/interior IF the car was not fixed - but some reparations would need to be made as they would be replacing it with a used car. That being said I would hope since this problem has never been heard of in the history of this dealership and one UK tech has also confirmed he has never heard of the problem ever before along with (This will be tough to fix) that they build me a new one as this is possible (2014 model year)....it may end up this way but who knows??
Ohio law suggests that you and your manufacturer work out a deal together without lawyers and such, and I am sure that an agreement could be made apart from - "we want to ship it back to UK and tear it apart and then return it to you". I DO NOT want a gutted car!!! or.. "The car is not malfunctioning, despite the fact we know this is not right or a common problem, live with it". Neither of those will suffice. Hopefully, the noise kit cures the problem now and forever more!!!!
Of concern to me throughout this whole process - not even the UK tech has heard of such a strange problem on a new XK much less an XKR-S. I have a feeling...just a feeling...it will not be so easy to fix.
Thoughts have crossed my mind. Is it a chirp from improper aluminum riveting or welding? Only way to know that would be what? start removing parts from my new supercar? hmmmm...I dont like the idea of it. When you buy a car that costs as much as a house - granted my area is a rather poor one in the states - you expect it to be downright perfect!
Loth
Last edited by Lothar52; 05-10-2013 at 01:33 PM. Reason: incomplete thought
#43
05-10-2013, 01:26 PM
I'm sorry that your XKR-S has that noise. Noises are the most frustrating thing for us to chase. Many times, the noise is not present when the car is brought in. The fact that you reproduced it for them should help narrow it down. I cannot comment on the dealer or the technician(s) looking at the car but, please work with them. Frankly, they don't really want you in there either when you should be out enjoying the car, so it is in their best interests to figure it out. Jaguar has some aids for squeaks and rattles (a box of items made to address squeaks and rattles). I hope they are spending real time on it and not half-assing it. Good luck and be patient with them, those noises are the absolute worst to deal with, so a calm customer will win over the screaming chicken little.
I, personally, have dealt with lemon law on a Jeep Wrangler that leaked from the hard top. Yes, some would say it is part of owning a Jeep but it was literally pouring onto the top of the radio. Long story short, we had a legitimate claim and were taken care of by Chrysler and kept the Jeep. We did give the dealer many many tries and I knew all the hoops to make sure they did their duty legally. It was mostly repaired and every once in a while some water came in. Not a big deal after all the hassle of trying to get it repaired and Chrysler doing their part.
It is a tricky thing to go through and if you like the car, be patient and let them try to repair it. If you get the impression they haven't done anything after three visits of repairs (make sure you get the copy before taking the car), then start taking action, calling Jaguar customer service, etc. Its too early to start talking lemon law.
I, personally, have dealt with lemon law on a Jeep Wrangler that leaked from the hard top. Yes, some would say it is part of owning a Jeep but it was literally pouring onto the top of the radio. Long story short, we had a legitimate claim and were taken care of by Chrysler and kept the Jeep. We did give the dealer many many tries and I knew all the hoops to make sure they did their duty legally. It was mostly repaired and every once in a while some water came in. Not a big deal after all the hassle of trying to get it repaired and Chrysler doing their part.
It is a tricky thing to go through and if you like the car, be patient and let them try to repair it. If you get the impression they haven't done anything after three visits of repairs (make sure you get the copy before taking the car), then start taking action, calling Jaguar customer service, etc. Its too early to start talking lemon law.
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Lothar52 (05-10-2013)
#44
05-10-2013, 01:29 PM
Veteran Member
I'm sorry that your XKR-S has that noise. Noises are the most frustrating thing for us to chase. Many times, the noise is not present when the car is brought in. The fact that you reproduced it for them should help narrow it down. I cannot comment on the dealer or the technician(s) looking at the car but, please work with them. Frankly, they don't really want you in there either when you should be out enjoying the car, so it is in their best interests to figure it out. Jaguar has some aids for squeaks and rattles (a box of items made to address squeaks and rattles). I hope they are spending real time on it and not half-assing it. Good luck and be patient with them, those noises are the absolute worst to deal with, so a calm customer will win over the screaming chicken little.
Last edited by jagxk2008; 05-10-2013 at 01:32 PM.
#45
05-10-2013, 01:46 PM
We worked with Chrysler and the dealer for a few months then once we realized it was an issue, we got a lawyer. Never once did we argue with anybody. We kept our cool and got the issue resolved. The jeep was 90% repaired and chrysler stood by their product, albeit a faulty one. No big deal.
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jagxk2008 (05-10-2013)
#46
05-10-2013, 02:12 PM
I'm sorry that your XKR-S has that noise. Noises are the most frustrating thing for us to chase. Many times, the noise is not present when the car is brought in. The fact that you reproduced it for them should help narrow it down. I cannot comment on the dealer or the technician(s) looking at the car but, please work with them. Frankly, they don't really want you in there either when you should be out enjoying the car, so it is in their best interests to figure it out. Jaguar has some aids for squeaks and rattles (a box of items made to address squeaks and rattles). I hope they are spending real time on it and not half-assing it. Good luck and be patient with them, those noises are the absolute worst to deal with, so a calm customer will win over the screaming chicken little.
I, personally, have dealt with lemon law on a Jeep Wrangler that leaked from the hard top. Yes, some would say it is part of owning a Jeep but it was literally pouring onto the top of the radio. Long story short, we had a legitimate claim and were taken care of by Chrysler and kept the Jeep. We did give the dealer many many tries and I knew all the hoops to make sure they did their duty legally. It was mostly repaired and every once in a while some water came in. Not a big deal after all the hassle of trying to get it repaired and Chrysler doing their part.
It is a tricky thing to go through and if you like the car, be patient and let them try to repair it. If you get the impression they haven't done anything after three visits of repairs (make sure you get the copy before taking the car), then start taking action, calling Jaguar customer service, etc. Its too early to start talking lemon law.
I, personally, have dealt with lemon law on a Jeep Wrangler that leaked from the hard top. Yes, some would say it is part of owning a Jeep but it was literally pouring onto the top of the radio. Long story short, we had a legitimate claim and were taken care of by Chrysler and kept the Jeep. We did give the dealer many many tries and I knew all the hoops to make sure they did their duty legally. It was mostly repaired and every once in a while some water came in. Not a big deal after all the hassle of trying to get it repaired and Chrysler doing their part.
It is a tricky thing to go through and if you like the car, be patient and let them try to repair it. If you get the impression they haven't done anything after three visits of repairs (make sure you get the copy before taking the car), then start taking action, calling Jaguar customer service, etc. Its too early to start talking lemon law.
The problem was reproducible. The dealership said after trying to localize it they CAN NOT DO SO because it was not consistent enough. That is why I think its going to be hard to fix. The tech from stratstone said the same! he wished me the best of luck as well and wanted updated on what did or did not work. Another concern I have is that if it returns in lets say 5 yrs...will my dealership attack it as if it is under warranty?
I can understand a 90% repair on lets say...my daily driver nissan. As a matter of fact my nissan maxima was recently rear-ended by a drunk and It went to a body shop. they fixed the bumper but the paint doesnt match well...oh whatever!! its got 106,000 miles on it in 5 years..it will be fine..its a daily driver!! However the XKR-S is a 6 figure car. I usually do not spend that kind of money on cars. I care about this car...it represents the pinnacle of car love in my opinion
. I will expect 100% repair of the problem - Period. I dont see anyone else on the forum disagreeing with that.. its just the way it is with a high end car bought 100% new and driven off the lot with the loss (MSRP depreciation). Its why I bought it new actually...I wanted a perfect car for a short while - until I damage it or father time does.Loth
Last edited by Lothar52; 05-10-2013 at 02:58 PM. Reason: additional comment
#47
05-10-2013, 02:57 PM
No problem. This is a good place to get ideas. This forum is much much friendlier than some others I've been on (not jag).
With all that, my thoughts would lead to a suspension or a heat shield. Since I work at a Land Rover only store, I can only access limited information regarding Jaguars. What I did look through, I only found an old message regarding putting in a "anti-friction" tape. This message was stating the TSB to fit the anti-friction tape was taken off topix and dealers were instructed to fit a specific part. Your car, I believe, was built after this change so it would, likely, not apply.
The springs on the suspension setups like your (starting with the very first s-type) sometimes made noise as they contacted another surface. This would produce a small squeak with small body movement. Don't know if that is what is going on here. The anti-friction tape would eliminate that contact.
You mention that is happens when changing gears with the selector. If I were the dealer, I'd get on my alignment rack and have someone in the car doing just that while another is under it watching what happens to the loading and unloading of the driveline and suspension. It could be as simple as a heat shield contacting the diff at that moment.
I don't know what they've done. It's kinda funny to me that they stated they called the helpline. When I was the foreman at my old dealer, we worked our assess off to not call the helpline. I even got a reputation from the helpline about when I did call, there was a big problem. LOL I'm not saying it's a bad thing to contact them but I would be exhausting all my resources before that call was made.
See if you and the tech working on it and the service manager can get together to go over the car. Stay as long as you can to help identify the sound, when it does it, what it sounds like. I think you have done right by trying to figure out when it does it. Keep at it and it will get resolved.
As far as 5 years down the road, that is hard to say. The dealer (service) typically will work with you if they get to know you in a positive light. Down the road, I think we all expect the car to be fine but at some point repairs will be necessary and the owner of the car will be responsible. If Jaguar could warranty a car forever, they would, but that is financially impossible. Are they going to warranty a repair from 5 years prior? Probably not. Will they look at it again for you? Yes.
With all that, my thoughts would lead to a suspension or a heat shield. Since I work at a Land Rover only store, I can only access limited information regarding Jaguars. What I did look through, I only found an old message regarding putting in a "anti-friction" tape. This message was stating the TSB to fit the anti-friction tape was taken off topix and dealers were instructed to fit a specific part. Your car, I believe, was built after this change so it would, likely, not apply.
The springs on the suspension setups like your (starting with the very first s-type) sometimes made noise as they contacted another surface. This would produce a small squeak with small body movement. Don't know if that is what is going on here. The anti-friction tape would eliminate that contact.
You mention that is happens when changing gears with the selector. If I were the dealer, I'd get on my alignment rack and have someone in the car doing just that while another is under it watching what happens to the loading and unloading of the driveline and suspension. It could be as simple as a heat shield contacting the diff at that moment.
I don't know what they've done. It's kinda funny to me that they stated they called the helpline. When I was the foreman at my old dealer, we worked our assess off to not call the helpline. I even got a reputation from the helpline about when I did call, there was a big problem. LOL I'm not saying it's a bad thing to contact them but I would be exhausting all my resources before that call was made.
See if you and the tech working on it and the service manager can get together to go over the car. Stay as long as you can to help identify the sound, when it does it, what it sounds like. I think you have done right by trying to figure out when it does it. Keep at it and it will get resolved.
As far as 5 years down the road, that is hard to say. The dealer (service) typically will work with you if they get to know you in a positive light. Down the road, I think we all expect the car to be fine but at some point repairs will be necessary and the owner of the car will be responsible. If Jaguar could warranty a car forever, they would, but that is financially impossible. Are they going to warranty a repair from 5 years prior? Probably not. Will they look at it again for you? Yes.
The following users liked this post:
Lothar52 (05-10-2013)
#48
05-10-2013, 04:12 PM
No problem. This is a good place to get ideas. This forum is much much friendlier than some others I've been on (not jag).
With all that, my thoughts would lead to a suspension or a heat shield. Since I work at a Land Rover only store, I can only access limited information regarding Jaguars. What I did look through, I only found an old message regarding putting in a "anti-friction" tape. This message was stating the TSB to fit the anti-friction tape was taken off topix and dealers were instructed to fit a specific part. Your car, I believe, was built after this change so it would, likely, not apply.
The springs on the suspension setups like your (starting with the very first s-type) sometimes made noise as they contacted another surface. This would produce a small squeak with small body movement. Don't know if that is what is going on here. The anti-friction tape would eliminate that contact.
You mention that is happens when changing gears with the selector. If I were the dealer, I'd get on my alignment rack and have someone in the car doing just that while another is under it watching what happens to the loading and unloading of the driveline and suspension. It could be as simple as a heat shield contacting the diff at that moment.
I don't know what they've done. It's kinda funny to me that they stated they called the helpline. When I was the foreman at my old dealer, we worked our assess off to not call the helpline. I even got a reputation from the helpline about when I did call, there was a big problem. LOL I'm not saying it's a bad thing to contact them but I would be exhausting all my resources before that call was made.
See if you and the tech working on it and the service manager can get together to go over the car. Stay as long as you can to help identify the sound, when it does it, what it sounds like. I think you have done right by trying to figure out when it does it. Keep at it and it will get resolved.
As far as 5 years down the road, that is hard to say. The dealer (service) typically will work with you if they get to know you in a positive light. Down the road, I think we all expect the car to be fine but at some point repairs will be necessary and the owner of the car will be responsible. If Jaguar could warranty a car forever, they would, but that is financially impossible. Are they going to warranty a repair from 5 years prior? Probably not. Will they look at it again for you? Yes.
With all that, my thoughts would lead to a suspension or a heat shield. Since I work at a Land Rover only store, I can only access limited information regarding Jaguars. What I did look through, I only found an old message regarding putting in a "anti-friction" tape. This message was stating the TSB to fit the anti-friction tape was taken off topix and dealers were instructed to fit a specific part. Your car, I believe, was built after this change so it would, likely, not apply.
The springs on the suspension setups like your (starting with the very first s-type) sometimes made noise as they contacted another surface. This would produce a small squeak with small body movement. Don't know if that is what is going on here. The anti-friction tape would eliminate that contact.
You mention that is happens when changing gears with the selector. If I were the dealer, I'd get on my alignment rack and have someone in the car doing just that while another is under it watching what happens to the loading and unloading of the driveline and suspension. It could be as simple as a heat shield contacting the diff at that moment.
I don't know what they've done. It's kinda funny to me that they stated they called the helpline. When I was the foreman at my old dealer, we worked our assess off to not call the helpline. I even got a reputation from the helpline about when I did call, there was a big problem. LOL I'm not saying it's a bad thing to contact them but I would be exhausting all my resources before that call was made.
See if you and the tech working on it and the service manager can get together to go over the car. Stay as long as you can to help identify the sound, when it does it, what it sounds like. I think you have done right by trying to figure out when it does it. Keep at it and it will get resolved.
As far as 5 years down the road, that is hard to say. The dealer (service) typically will work with you if they get to know you in a positive light. Down the road, I think we all expect the car to be fine but at some point repairs will be necessary and the owner of the car will be responsible. If Jaguar could warranty a car forever, they would, but that is financially impossible. Are they going to warranty a repair from 5 years prior? Probably not. Will they look at it again for you? Yes.
I will keep you UTD Mark on what goes on!! BTW where is wilmington, DE?
Loth
#49
05-10-2013, 04:12 PM
Veteran Member
has made the sound before just by getting into the car - is this correct? So that means you don't necessarily need to apply power to generate the sound. If that is the case, that (to me) limits the systems to suspension and brakes, and possibly wheels (associated parts)
Last edited by jagxk2008; 05-10-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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Lothar52 (05-10-2013)
#51
05-10-2013, 04:33 PM
its weird....the first time I reproduced it for the jag tech we were both in the car...I had put it from P to R and we were reversing really slowly with my foot on the brake in the garage..after a second...CHIRP!!. It was so loud it echoed throughout the place. Then he jumped out of the car...said do that again. I went from P to R...nothing. That is why its reproducible but not consistent. Its so weird!!
Loth
Loth
#52
05-10-2013, 07:18 PM
#53
05-10-2013, 07:47 PM
Veteran Member
I'm sure everyone here treasures their GT. The Jaguar XK/XKR/XKR-S are admired by a lot of people. A few fortunate people get to own and enjoy these cars. You have the pinnacle GT that everyone dreams of owning. I'm interested, as I'm sure everyone here is, in what is going on and, just as important, what Jaguar is doing for you. Jaguar's reputation is on the line with this one. If they don't quickly take care of this to your satisfaction I'll never buy that new F-Type--seriously. Your comments and canned experience with Jaguar and your detailed description of the problem is much appreciated. You are not yapping or venting. I completely understand your frustration and frankly think you have a lot of patients. The longer this takes to get resolved to your satisfaction the further I get away from purchasing a new F-Type or any new Jaguar.
Last edited by DGL; 05-10-2013 at 08:06 PM.
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jagxk2008 (05-11-2013)
#54
05-10-2013, 09:09 PM
#55
05-10-2013, 09:31 PM
#56
05-10-2013, 09:33 PM
#57
05-10-2013, 09:59 PM
Veteran Member
I'm sure everyone here treasures their GT. The Jaguar XK/XKR/XKR-S are admired by a lot of people. A few fortunate people get to own and enjoy these cars. You have the pinnacle GT that everyone dreams of owning. I'm interested, as I'm sure everyone here is, in what is going on and, just as important, what Jaguar is doing for you. Jaguar's reputation is on the line with this one. If they don't quickly take care of this to your satisfaction I'll never buy that new F-Type--seriously. Your comments and canned experience with Jaguar and your detailed description of the problem is much appreciated. You are not yapping or venting. I completely understand your frustration and frankly think you have a lot of patients. The longer this takes to get resolved to your satisfaction the further I get away from purchasing a new F-Type or any new Jaguar.
What I try to say is, sometimes it is not loyal.
#58
05-10-2013, 10:01 PM
Veteran Member
Yes maybe a talentuous tecnician will find out here. They could or should offer you something then after it is resolved like a free service at least or something...
#59
05-10-2013, 10:30 PM
Veteran Member
Thoughts have crossed my mind. Is it a chirp from improper aluminum riveting or welding? Only way to know that would be what? start removing parts from my new supercar? hmmmm...I dont like the idea of it. When you buy a car that costs as much as a house - granted my area is a rather poor one in the states - you expect it to be downright perfect!
Loth
Maybe installing new gear box/ new selector and ? new transfer box, straight, (all new mountings too) will be a good second trial, but maybe the noise kit contains more we can think...seems they do not seems to be sure if it is an electrical noise (security alarm signal noise) or coming from parts/materiel, changing these 3 straight (as it could be internal and not easy to resolve) may clear the problem.
Last edited by jagxk2008; 05-10-2013 at 11:02 PM.
#60
05-10-2013, 11:22 PM