For the last couple of years..
In my experience, RR reliability and costs have been OK. Their reputation may also be a little out of date!

 

Despite never even sitting in one, my general perception of Range Rover was that they were overpriced and unreliable, then this story came along and reinforced that notion probably forever. Dan Henderson wins a fight, loses a working car - Cagewriter - Mixed Martial Arts Blog - Yahoo! Sports

 

By commenting on a model that you have no knowledge of, quoting an article 8 years old, about a vehicle that broke down once, and saying your perception 'is probably forever'..

 

That's what I'm saying too - brand perception often isn't necessarily rooted in reality or even personal experience yet persists and gets reinforced by anecdotal evidence like that widely publicized story about the Range Rover prize that broke down right after being given. I was just trying to illustrate how deep rooted brand perception can be and how hard it is for a manufacturer to shake.

I had the same negative perception of Jaguar too but was enamored enough with the styling that I actually chose to research the model I wanted rather than rely on old stereotypes that no longer hold true.

 

Fair enough, I hope that you're enjoying your F type and spreading the word!

 

No truer words have been written.
As someone who has had one foot in each continent, I was flabbergasted how well the Volkswagen Bug was embraced in this young impressionable America. Particular amoungst the war-hating flower children.

In Britain you could not give them away- even a child would tell you there has never been a better insignia of the Third Reich, the Fuhrer's personal dream to see the world driving the Folk's Wagon which he stole from Czechoslovakia. One that Fernidad Porsche himself served time in jail after the war for slave labor and war crimes. Notably, he was one of the top guys in the Reich

Point being, America is quite pliable due to its youth, and yet paradoxically this is the largest market that defines the survival of the brand.

I could not feel any connection to the heritage of any German car, which is precisely what is being marketed. Whereas there is so much heritage and pride to be had with a Jaguar. Its built in Castle Bromwhich in the very factory, using the same construction techniques (riveted aluminum monocouqe) that made the Spitfire, which went on to become the P45 Mustang in American, the thing that won the war.

In our specific XKR Jaguars, I never tire of discovering the aviation cues that Malcolm Sayer inserted in there because he was a aviation designer. Such as the long bonnet of the Spitfire. Regardless, its heritage reminds me of the swinging sixties, or how the Chairman of the Board loved his XJS above all. Then I think, how the heck could someone in America buy an Audi, whose only heritage I remember is having to leave the US market after stuck accelerator problems.

All that to say; our cars are truly underappreciated. Even RR, who was merely given surplus green paint after the war and went on to create a category in automotive- that the world is copying; Luxury Utility Vehicles.
Did someone say "Give us the tools, we will get the job done".

Sorry if this post was off topic, I got an email notification and had to respond.

 

It is true that the P51 Mustang eventually used the Rolls Royce Merlin engine, a variant of the one in the Spitfire, but the airframe is totally and completely different. I can't validate whether the Riveted Aluminum Monocoque IDEA was used from the Spitfire or not...

Your point is still valid.

 

The Spitfire is as much yours as it is ours. We owe much to you. When we said give us the tools we will get the job done, we were speaking to you.

The 150 XKR with gen3 aj8, once again proved that a tiny underfunded island with a little help from the Americans could leave the competition in the dust. Compare it to the Ferrari California (direct competitor), which has since updated their car to riveted aluminum frame. Unlike the bulletproof Jag engine they had a total recall due to engine seizure. And ours is so much prettier if we use an unbiased perception to view ours. (as the poster previously commented)

 

Q & C,
I have to follow up on a couple of things, just for accuracy sake:
1. Audi were not driven out of the U.S. market over the unintended acceleration issue. That was finally and definitively associated with operator failure, as virtually every manufacturer became embrioled in that stupidity. It did seriously affect Audi sales, but it did not drive them from the U.S. market.
As for heritage, Audi's historical roots are in Auto Union, responsible for the first rear engined Formulea 1 racing cars, who dominated Formulea 1 in the late 1930's.
Then of course there is the Audi Quattro that Audi brought to World Rallying in the 1970's, at that time dominated by light high performing rear wheel drive cars like the Ford Escort and Lancia Stratos. They were laughed at, too heavy, too complicated, they were told. When the dust settled Audi were World Champion Constructors and remained so for some time. Today no one would even attempt to rally a car without all time all wheel drive.
2. It was not Rolls Royce who were given green paint after the war but Rover, who went on the create the ubiquitous Land Rover.
3. Much as I adore the Spitfire, and consider it, along with the de Havilland Mosquito to be the most beautiful of all warplanes, (the Mustang and FW 190 being merely handsome in comparison), I have to say that long bonnets long preceded the Spitfire in automotive design. Bugatti, De Le Haye, Bentley, Hispano Suiza and Mercedes and many more produced beautiful long bonneted cars during the 20's and 30's.
Sorry to everyone else for hijacking the thread.
Regards,

 

White Bear,
Some clarifications are owed by me. My point about the Audi was not that the accel probs were true- they were not. And we in Europe had great reverence for the Audi because they dominated our Rally courses. The point was that in America the perception of Audi was nothing, perhaps only negative. And yet people flocked to it as opposed to Jaguar with a deep heritage in America- Blue Eyes had 3 for crying out loud.

The surplus green paint I was referring to was Rover, I erroneously and blasphemously abbreviated to RR. i.e. give us some green paint and we will give you a world class range rover.

Yes by no means was the long bonnet born with the Etype, nor an aeronautical themed car. But this was the real deal, and the whole package, Malcolm Sayer went on to noted as a genius. Unlike many of the aesthetically designed cars, the race winning XK was aerodynamically correct. Enzo famously said that aerodynamics were for those who did not know how to design engines. He later became a big believer in aerodynamics.

My perception (delusion) as a commoner is that this is the closest I will come to enjoying Malcolm Sayer's dream and British resourcefulness of yore, in a modern package that gives anything out there a run for its money.

 

All this talk about Jaguar Heritage, I better do it proper justice an post an article from wiki.

The Jaguar D-Type aviation industry influenced structure was radically different. Innovative monocoque construction and an aeronautical approach to aerodynamic efficiency brought aviation technology to competition car design
The structural design, revolutionary at the time, applied aeronautical technology. The "tub", or cockpit section, was of monocoque construction, mostly comprising sheets of aluminium alloy. Its elliptical shape and comparatively small cross-section provided torsional rigidity and reduced drag.[1] To the front bulkhead was attached an aluminium tubing subframe for the engine, steering assembly, and front suspension. Rear suspension and final drive were mounted to the rear bulkhead. Fuel was carried in the tail and the designers followed aviation practice by specifying a deformable Marston Aviation Division bag[1][2] in place of a conventional tank.
The aerodynamic bodywork was largely the work of Malcolm Sayer, who had joined Jaguar following a stint with the Bristol Aeroplane Company during the Second World War and later worked on the C-Type. For the D-Type, he insisted on a minimal frontal area. To reduce the XK engine's height, Jaguar's chief engineer, William Haynes, and former Bentley engineer, Walter Hassan, developed dry sump lubrication, and it has been said that the car's frontal area was also a consideration in canting the engine at 8½° from the vertical (which necessitated the offset bonnet bulge). Philip Porter, in his book Jaguar Sports Racing Cars, says that "[a] more likely reason was to provide extra space for the ram pipes feeding the three twin-choke Weber carburettors."[1] Reducing underbody drag contributed to the car's high top speed; for the long Mulsanne Straight at Le Mans, a fin was mounted behind the driver for aerodynamic stability. For the 1955 season, factory cars were fitted with a longer nose, which lengthened the car by 7½ inches and further increased maximum speed; and the headrest fairing and aerodynamic fin were combined as a single unit that smoothed the aerodynamics and saved weight.[1]
Mechanically, many features were shared with the outgoing C-Type. Its front and rear suspension and innovative all-round disc brakes were retained, as was the XK engine. Apart from the new lubrication system, the engine was further revised as development progressed during the D-Type's competition life. Notably in 1955 larger valves were introduced, together with asymmetrical cylinder heads to accommodate them.
Elements of the body shape and many construction details were used in the Jaguar E-Type.
A 1955 model was sold at a Sotheby's auction in 2016 for $19,800,000

 

When my neighbours come over to talk about my X200 or X150, it's usually to admire them. Each time I go to the car wash with the X150, I have interesting conversations with people who only have nice things to say. I'm always amazed how many people still think Ford own Jaguar...

If I were JLR, I would focus some ads on the heritage of Jaguar's racing past and technologically advanced future to enhance the image of the brand. To the point about Castle Bromwich, I would show the Spitfire Mk IX next to an X152 and explain they both came from the same factory and are both very advanced for their time.

Every now and then, someone will make a comment about Lucas and electrical issues, to which I always reply: 'Exactly which Jaguar model did you own that had those problems?' In my personal experience, it's always made by someone who's never owned a Jaguar, nor any other British marque.

 

Its bad luck really- we are going through an era where anything over 40 is a has-been. See it from a standpoint of music. Dean Martin, Sinatra, Mel Torme, would starve to death if they had to make it in the music industry today. As opposed to back then when you were considered a punk till you reached 40.

Funny thing is that luxury performance is still largely the privilege of the over 40's crowd due to income, however, its they who want to act younger than even the youngsters.

Its a young man's world mates. You see far fewer Merc Sls than you ever did. (yes they are no where as good) I believe they too have suffered from the public being oblivious to heritage and it perhaps having a negative connotation.

The point about Lucas is spot on. I see someone on this forum asking who makes the Jaguar xk150 chassis. I can see how they would not know that Jaguar has one of the worlds highest output and advanced stamping facility- but its the assumption that it cant possibly be a Jaguar chassis, and this is an owner.

 

Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, and Mel Torme are still dead. Tony Bennett is still alive and is as popular as ever, and his association with Lady Gaga has turned younger generations into fans of jazz music.

An oldie but goodie!

You're right about it being a young man's world, but you don't have to throw in the towel. Wisdom comes with age.

 

Owning a Jag is like owning a Pit Bull. It comes with a stigma (stereo types and public perception) that causes us to have to "defend" our reason to own them. Most people don't know anything about either of them and never bother to do the research. Reading this forum is the ONLY reason I bought a Jag because I educated myself before my purchase and knew exactly what to expect with my 2010 XK convertible.

 

Well, not sure Jag and a Pit Bull are a good comparison. I have three friends who have either been mauled or a relative mauled by Pit Bulls, make this comparison to them and you would be lambasted! I also know people with PB's that are the sweetest dog you could ever meet, I am not a hater just a realist. One guy who intervened while driving during the day to save a little girl under attach and suffered substantial wounds to his legs, the second my friend's sister mauled when she was a kid by the family dog with scars the rest of her life, and the last a buddy in college who got it at a visit to a an extended family member.

I applaud Q&C's loyalty to his countries product but shake my head when he and others get upset when people have the audacity to bring up the Jag's checkered past. It is what it is, 15 years of great quality is hard to change the 40 years prior. The brand is doing great, adding new products to appeal to a broader market, introducing a younger man's sports car and SUV to lower the age demographic. I laugh when people say such things to me.

 

As posted in a link up thread, Jaguar was a dead brand that once shed of it's layers of poor performing bureaucracy by Ford because a viable product.