The X150 as a future Classic and/or Collectible?
#1
The X150 as a future Classic and/or Collectible?
The X150 has now been out of production for more than three years, and there does not appear to be a follow-on planned to replace it. (There have been rumours of the F-Type adding a 2+2 variant, but not named as an "XK" designation.)
I realize that three years is insignificant in so far as cars like the XKE (E-Type) of the 1960's go, but eventually the year 2050 will roll around. And in that era, I am curious for your opinions on how the X150 will be viewed in retrospect.
I certainly believe the low volume variants such as the XK R-S GT, and the "Final Fifty" will be very sought after and collectible. However, will any of the other X150 cars be viewed then, with the same interest as the (more common) E-Type's are now?
The X150 was not "revolutionary" in any major way, as the E-Type was in it's era, and the aluminum body should hold up better to corrosion and the mechanicals' Et Al should also fair better. The over-all production numbers of the 5L 2010 MY and up was around 21,000 vehicles, which is far less than the ~72.5K E-Types.
So, how do you see the X150 being viewed in the year 2050?
I realize that three years is insignificant in so far as cars like the XKE (E-Type) of the 1960's go, but eventually the year 2050 will roll around. And in that era, I am curious for your opinions on how the X150 will be viewed in retrospect.
I certainly believe the low volume variants such as the XK R-S GT, and the "Final Fifty" will be very sought after and collectible. However, will any of the other X150 cars be viewed then, with the same interest as the (more common) E-Type's are now?
The X150 was not "revolutionary" in any major way, as the E-Type was in it's era, and the aluminum body should hold up better to corrosion and the mechanicals' Et Al should also fair better. The over-all production numbers of the 5L 2010 MY and up was around 21,000 vehicles, which is far less than the ~72.5K E-Types.
So, how do you see the X150 being viewed in the year 2050?
Last edited by JagRag; 09-06-2017 at 08:54 PM.
#2
Obsolete...
Sad state of affairs. I think the urethane painted leather, plastic cooling system and electronics will do them in for the most part. Once parts aren't readily available it doesn't matter how much of a hanger queen your car is, it'll become obsolete and either need fabricated parts or salvage. They didn't make a ton of these cars so find the XK specific parts now before the crashed ones are picked over.
I think the body style will indeed be classic, at least for the coupes. The verts don't have as exotic of a body line. The X100's look very dated. I think in ten years the X150's will too. Mostly lighting as the newer stuff is all edgy.
Sad state of affairs. I think the urethane painted leather, plastic cooling system and electronics will do them in for the most part. Once parts aren't readily available it doesn't matter how much of a hanger queen your car is, it'll become obsolete and either need fabricated parts or salvage. They didn't make a ton of these cars so find the XK specific parts now before the crashed ones are picked over.
I think the body style will indeed be classic, at least for the coupes. The verts don't have as exotic of a body line. The X100's look very dated. I think in ten years the X150's will too. Mostly lighting as the newer stuff is all edgy.
#3
One possibility might be to install an American V8 with its engine control electronics and transmission, much as was done to some XJs in the 60's when the 4.2L straight six had too many issues to be rebuilt. Hence the vehicle becomes somewhat of a kit car.
#4
Ranchero50,
While you might be right about parts availability etc., into the future, really all low production cars have limited parts availability which is also what drives up the value of well maintained examples. On the other hand, I think the X100, is already a classic, collectible design and the real successor to the XKE. It may not be worth a lot right now, but pricing has stopped dropping and late model 2005-2006 examples are listed for higher prices than 2007-2008 X150s.
JagRag,
Not revolutionary? When the 5.0L XKR debuted with its 510 hp, cats suspension, huge torque, it was considered pretty revolutionary to most automotive publications and journalists. Whether or not X150s will be worth a lot of money is debatable, but that doesn't take away from its classicism or collectibility.
While you might be right about parts availability etc., into the future, really all low production cars have limited parts availability which is also what drives up the value of well maintained examples. On the other hand, I think the X100, is already a classic, collectible design and the real successor to the XKE. It may not be worth a lot right now, but pricing has stopped dropping and late model 2005-2006 examples are listed for higher prices than 2007-2008 X150s.
JagRag,
Not revolutionary? When the 5.0L XKR debuted with its 510 hp, cats suspension, huge torque, it was considered pretty revolutionary to most automotive publications and journalists. Whether or not X150s will be worth a lot of money is debatable, but that doesn't take away from its classicism or collectibility.
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Queen and Country (09-07-2017)
#5
I agree with Ranchero. I think very few of today's cars will be collectible classics. As the electronics die they will no longer be serviceable and fall off the road. The mechanical parts such as the cooling system and even the leather can be kludged to some extent. The electronics in all the computer systems are another story.
#6
Yep the electronics will doom the masses to the recycling bin. But what would you collect from today's offerings? Most auto's look the same from a distance. Why? Because you can't fool a wind tunnel. Very few distinct body styles anymore.
Now the X150 and others that do have more of a distinct body style will be viewed as desirable.
The issue will be as electric cars take over... and they will... the love affair with the V-8's/V-6's will suffer the same fate as the V-12's and will be no longer. The "Millennials" are slowly taking over. No different than when us "Boomers" took over. Nothing is forever.
Now the X150 and others that do have more of a distinct body style will be viewed as desirable.
The issue will be as electric cars take over... and they will... the love affair with the V-8's/V-6's will suffer the same fate as the V-12's and will be no longer. The "Millennials" are slowly taking over. No different than when us "Boomers" took over. Nothing is forever.
Last edited by 1 of 19; 09-07-2017 at 04:18 AM. Reason: Because I can.
#9
I don't think it will become collectible in the next 30 years.
In order for a mass produced car to become collectible, a large number of people need to become nostalgic about it. Look at classic Corvette valuations - they don't make sense based on initial price and production numbers, but people still pay this due to nostalgia. Once people nostalgic about these die off, you will be able to pick a good example for $10 -15K.
In order for a mass produced car to become collectible, a large number of people need to become nostalgic about it. Look at classic Corvette valuations - they don't make sense based on initial price and production numbers, but people still pay this due to nostalgia. Once people nostalgic about these die off, you will be able to pick a good example for $10 -15K.
#10
I think how hard to maintain the car is a side question. People restore cars with 100% NLA parts, given that the car is valuable enough. You won't bother custom-manufacturing parts for a 10K classic, but someone might for 250K classic. So if the car is seen as sufficiently valuable, people, outside of narrow enthusiast circle, will R&R them.
Long term - metal 3D printing and scanning will make it cheaper to produce NLA parts. Future restoration shops will likely also specialize in 3D printing. For now, you have to use CN, milling, welding and compression molding.
Long term - metal 3D printing and scanning will make it cheaper to produce NLA parts. Future restoration shops will likely also specialize in 3D printing. For now, you have to use CN, milling, welding and compression molding.
Last edited by SinF; 09-07-2017 at 08:03 AM.
#11
I think how hard to maintain the car is a side question. People restore cars with 100% NLA parts, given that the car is valuable enough. You won't bother custom-manufacturing parts for a 10K classic, but someone might for 250K classic. So if the car is seen as sufficiently valuable, people, outside of narrow enthusiast circle, will R&R them.
Long term - metal 3D printing and scanning will make it cheaper to produce NLA parts. Future restoration shops will likely also specialize in 3D printing. For now, you have to use CN, milling, welding and compression molding.
Long term - metal 3D printing and scanning will make it cheaper to produce NLA parts. Future restoration shops will likely also specialize in 3D printing. For now, you have to use CN, milling, welding and compression molding.
Then there is the obsolescence of people and equipment to maintain the cars. You think it is hard to get the weird problems on these cars fixed now, wait until there are no serviceable PCs left that will even run Windows 7 or 10 to run Jaguar's SDD on your car. Think that is not going to happen? Try finding someone that can repair a tube type radio or even a carburetor. (I mean REALLY repair it, with the PROPER jets, choke, and etc., not just put in new gaskets and clean the jets.) Try even finding a tube tester.
#12
+1 on these accurate (yet depressing) observations.
But of all the car's I've owned, it is still the car I get the most comments on. I'm not driving the car for the comments, but there is just something about it people like. I think it'll always have followers.
Will that make it collectible? Doubt it. My hunch is forums like these will become more important, where we will exchange information on these mythical, Yoda-mechanics who have PC's that can read the by-then-antique codes in their garage.
Having said that, it's interesting how these technologies age, and to see how, and why, some hang on. It's still possible to buy a blank VHS tape.
But of all the car's I've owned, it is still the car I get the most comments on. I'm not driving the car for the comments, but there is just something about it people like. I think it'll always have followers.
Will that make it collectible? Doubt it. My hunch is forums like these will become more important, where we will exchange information on these mythical, Yoda-mechanics who have PC's that can read the by-then-antique codes in their garage.
Having said that, it's interesting how these technologies age, and to see how, and why, some hang on. It's still possible to buy a blank VHS tape.
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winstonsalemncxk (09-07-2017)
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ferraripete (09-08-2017)
#14
My CNC mill runs on dos 6.2 and I could talk to it with my Xp machine. The newer Windows 10 machine has the Xp code buried but I haven't hit the right combo to get it to talk TCP/ IP yet. Both machines need hard coded to talk, no finding a Dos machine with PNP.
Per the car, the plastic engine bits concern me the most. You only get a finite amount of heat cycles before the plastics break down. My 34k mile '68 Fairlane's 289 is bone stock. I finally changed the original PS belt last year. Over the years coolant has finally started eating away at the intake and water pump gaskets but it also just turned 50 years old. Everything works, including the AM radio and speakers. Granted this car has spent it's entire life garaged. I know '90's Mustangs have not aged as gracefully as the Fairlane. The plastic bits are breaking at the fasteners from fatigue.
Per the car, the plastic engine bits concern me the most. You only get a finite amount of heat cycles before the plastics break down. My 34k mile '68 Fairlane's 289 is bone stock. I finally changed the original PS belt last year. Over the years coolant has finally started eating away at the intake and water pump gaskets but it also just turned 50 years old. Everything works, including the AM radio and speakers. Granted this car has spent it's entire life garaged. I know '90's Mustangs have not aged as gracefully as the Fairlane. The plastic bits are breaking at the fasteners from fatigue.
#15
They will be INCREDIBLY collectible.
None of you are actually seeing the writing on the wall.
You are still thinking with the brain you have now, not the one you will have in the future.
First of all problems associated with internal combustion are over.
People are converting to insane battery power with lower cost than replacing the engine for the msrp.
At a time when we are all making 'White Zombies' if you dont know what that is go look it up on youtube. Or better yet
The only thing that will matter is good looks, light body and style. Nothing can take that away from us. Meanwhile we still have one of the most revolutionary engines to tide us over.
None of you are actually seeing the writing on the wall.
You are still thinking with the brain you have now, not the one you will have in the future.
First of all problems associated with internal combustion are over.
People are converting to insane battery power with lower cost than replacing the engine for the msrp.
At a time when we are all making 'White Zombies' if you dont know what that is go look it up on youtube. Or better yet
The only thing that will matter is good looks, light body and style. Nothing can take that away from us. Meanwhile we still have one of the most revolutionary engines to tide us over.
#16
I am not saying it is impossible to keep them running. It will be difficult. After restoring two '57 Tbirds and a '56 Corvette I know it can be done. It is hard, and getting harder, to find parts and people that can do it. Every grocery and hardware store used to have a tube tester. It will take awhile to find one now. If the radio didn't work the car is still serviceable. I can rewind a fan motor, cut new gaskets, and machine or print plastic parts in my garage. When DI gasoline cars are a thing of the distant past and the injectors are NLA how are you going to make or fix them? Or an FPGA in the ECU? Or any of the dozen or so critical sensors in the cars? Any of those parts will render the car inoperable.
I will probably be dead by then and it won't matter to me. My son does't like the old cars and wants a Prius now. I see JLA just showed an electric 1968 Etype. Maybe my son would "take" my '65 E if I converted it to electric for him. You could probably do that with an XK as well. You won't be happy with the exhaust note though.
I will probably be dead by then and it won't matter to me. My son does't like the old cars and wants a Prius now. I see JLA just showed an electric 1968 Etype. Maybe my son would "take" my '65 E if I converted it to electric for him. You could probably do that with an XK as well. You won't be happy with the exhaust note though.
#17
But who wants to smell ozone instead of gasoline? The electrics have no soul or exhaust note! These are right up there with changing points, the good ole bias ply tires, and non synchro transmissions!
#18
Try finding a 64K DRAM chip, a 6800 micro controller, or Nixie tube today. All were common 30 years ago. You are not going to make a new LCD panel in your garage.
You think it is hard to get the weird problems on these cars fixed now, wait until there are no serviceable PCs left that will even run Windows 7 or 10 to run Jaguar's SDD on your car. Think that is not going to happen? Try finding someone that can repair a tube type radio or even a carburetor.
Last edited by SinF; 09-07-2017 at 11:56 AM.
#19
On your earlier point to others about keeping them running. There is one thing we never had in the past that must be factored today. What's made our current cars possible to some degree are these electronic intensive and quite complicated cars are being shipped to developing nations...
There is tremendous ingenuity and resourcefulness there. Already they have figured out inexpensive workarounds engineering disasters such as the premature bmw/audi carbon buildup. Or the biodegradable gaskets on the Subaru. I watch some of these youtube videos in absolute amazement and even forward them to engineering buddies. Sure one can be arrogant and laugh when they use tools such as a shop-vac- then I saw BMW supplying the same thing to their dealers to perform the intake cleaning- go figure. I bet they called it a reverse-Kompressor.
Our engines are hugely popular in the former soviet block.
#20
The reason I bring up maintaining obsolete electronics is that was part of responsibilities at my last job - before retiring. We built security systems for the government and had a responsibility to maintain and service them for ten years. I was surprised how difficult and expensive, even by government standards, that was. This was just ten years and we had unlimited resources that "cost plus" contracts gave us.
Granted the body shell can probably be kept on road forever. They might make neat resto-rods with a Back to the Future power plant from a junkyard Delorean. Being an originality purist that violates the heart and soul of a classic car in my mind.
Granted the body shell can probably be kept on road forever. They might make neat resto-rods with a Back to the Future power plant from a junkyard Delorean. Being an originality purist that violates the heart and soul of a classic car in my mind.