I knew the unpaid mouthpiece for JLR would instantly come to their aid. You have provided Carfax "proof" and Carfax cannot even be sure the car wasn't stolen or crashed. They have no idea whether the chain guides have been replaced unless they were notified. If the car is well cared for then the time to failure will be extended but they will eventually fail because aluminum cannot withstand being beat upon by steel.

 

There is quite a bit of information on the web that basically states that it is not stretching of the chain but wear on the rollers that creates the illusion of stretching by making the chain loose. Lack of proper oil changes is blamed.

This is separate and apart from the chain guide issue which may or may not be exacerbated by lack of proper oil changes.

Metal particles caused by this wear can find their way into the VVT system and cause premature wear there with a rattling noise ensuing.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by 'rollers'? What rollers?

thx

 

The contact points/ bearings in the chain that take the force of turning the sprockets. They "look like" rollers.

 

Well its better than thin air.
But you can do better than me, why dont you take a poll of folks here who have had to replace their guides and knew for a fact the car was well maintained.
Hint; I have not seen one.
AND I have seen the inverse, lots and lots of folks who have put miles on their 5.0 without needing to replace guides.

Perhaps Tberg can shed some light....

 

https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/...ch-oils-fault/

Backup for my post #24

 

It will be interesting for me to watch. As I mentioned I have dealer oil changes annually which is about 3000-4000 miles. Also 2 years ago they went from 5W-20 to 0W-20 . Time will tell but my guess is I will be gone before the chain lets go.

 

I think maybe your getting senile Q&C...
Go back to this thread

And lets not forget the multitude of videos on Youtube




And I wont even ask if you have bothered to look at any LR forums...

I fail to understand why you are so argumentative a flaw 'known' by Jaguar?
What I want to know is when will they recall my car, rather than living in fear that it will someday self destruct thanks to a now known engineering design flaw.

Vince

 

No doubt. But I remember what I said 5 minutes ago.
I havent seen anyone have a problem with the guides where it was know for a fact that the engine was well maintained.

 

V. Do a google search on XKR 5.0 timing chains and you will see I was one of the first folks to jump on this wagon and raise the alarm. And experienced chain rattle first hand!
I have done tons of research and posted a great deal of information. Heck just the link above is all we need.

Lets move past the what you assume is an argument (its not) and let me agree with you lock, stock and barrel.
We are still looking in the wrong direction. You know a thing or two about cars. You know that in an ideal world a chain would not need a tensioner and guides. It does because it cant maintain tension over time due to elongation (hell the chain on my 20 year old chevy is so stretched that I had to modify the mount for the distributor to put the engine in time). Elongation is the issue not the things we do to remedy it, like progressively more tension.

Dont worry it will be decided soon and we can both feel better, we will either get a recall or told that we will be fine.

 

A known engineering flaw may or may not result in a recall, so don't hold your breath waiting.

It is important to understand the difference between a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) and a Recall.

A TSB is an explanation by the manufacturer that is addressed to their service technicians that explains how to repair a previously unexpected problem that is not deemed to be safety related. If the affected vehicle is still covered by the manufacturer's warranty, the repair will be done free of charge. Otherwise, it's payable by the owner and might be covered in whole or in part by a third-party extended service contract and discounts from the dealer or manufacturer. The Jaguar 5.0L engine timing chain is the subject of a TSB.

A recall is where a manufacturer recognizes that a governmental safety organization has determined that, regardless of time or mileage, a manufacturing defect exists that affects safety. The most commonly known recall involves Takata airbags. Repair costs are covered by the manufacturer.

Will the timing chain TSB rise to the level of a recall? Is there enough time to address this issue before catastrophic engine damage occurs that results in loss of control and risk of bodily injury?

Sorry, I can't answer that because there's a TSB on my crystal ball.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech...rvice_Bulletin

 

Does anybody on the Forum know the VIN when the changeover occurred? If not, anybody know where one could look for that information?

 

Ralph,

See the link in my Post #9, above, to the thread in the X351 (current XJ) Forum. Below is Post #23 from that thread. Sorry I can't be of any help with the X150 VIN changeover but, based on the XJ VIN changeover, I suspect it's for some time after the X150 production began for model year 2014.





Stuart

 

I assume it was sometime in the 2013MY based on the VIN info in this although that depends on which revision has the reinforced wear point:

 

Indeed, your are correct sir.... Thank you.

I had experience with a similar issue with the Audi 2.0l turbo.
A flawed design allowed a hardened steel component to shatter, sending its bits about the camshafts, subsequently cams destroyed themselves, and with them, the rest of the engine.
It too was argued by Audi America that 'poor maintenance and substandard fuels' used in the US were to blame.

For 4 years Audi engines continued to self destruct with no concern from Audi. To our fortune, the part (about $90) was easily replace with less than an hours work, and it became routine DIY, thank goodness!
Still, 2.0l Audi owners world wide became outraged at Audi's attempt to deflect damages with faults claims. With enough pressure Audi finally recanted. Though no engines already lost were covered, Audi did agree to extend the engine warranty to 100K miles. An obvious win to some degree! (of course we all knew to replace the part by that time, but hey... Owners finally won something!)

Another Audi event involved defective coils (we all kept a spare in the trunk!) Audi did offer to replace the coils at no charge, and if receipts existed, even reimburse owners for their out of pocket expense. Not a safety issue, but treated as a voluntary recall .... Yet another big win for owners.

We now face the same dilemma, with a part we cannot replaced ourselves for $90, and Jaguar will certainly push back.
Audi felt the damage to its reputation, and that was their only reason for acting. Perhaps failure would happen at 101K miles, but owners had peace of mind once again even knowing the part was easily replaced..

Will Jaguar care? Is there a reputation worth defending, considering the limited number of JLR products out there?
Might not be a recall, but perhaps if enough speak out to JLR, (or Class action suit) and extended engine warranty would ease thousands of owners minds.
Food for thought...

V

 

Ford suffered the very same issue in the early 90's in their modular 4.6L. Lucky for them it was caught very early so was covered by a champaign recall of only a few hundred vehicles. Their solution was a complete engine swap as the number was quite small, though encredibly expensive to undertake. It is odd though that Jag engineering didn't catch the issue or learned from the Ford incident as I know the info was shared.

Based on the probable size involved here, I'm not holding my breath for anything more than "sorry" in our case.

Pessimistic, I know.

 

https://www.kgglaw.com/class-action/...-class-action/

At least I know the vin range for my Rover.

 

JLR has asked the poignant question that we should be also asking.

How come we cant find more that 1% affected with such a blatant flaw.

(please dont get emotional and think I am taking Goliath's side and an anti-Semite, I want a free timing chain as bad as the other guy, but logic is logic, no getting around it)

 

Logic has little to do with it.
It's called metallurgy and physics, and a flaw openly identified by Jaguar.

Remember, we forum members are only a small fraction of owners out there. Take every 5.0l sold by JLR with this flaw (XJ's XF's LR's etc.) We here most likely represent less than a percent.

Many buy Jags with pocket change (Nice!), and a $2500 service bill runs off them like water on a duck. (keep in mind that these folks pay $300 for a $50 oil change, and don't give it a second thought....)

I believe the larger majority of owners are oblivious to these issues, and also pay their $2500 service bills without second thought as well.

Only Jaguar corporate knows the real numbers, and I can easily believe they are far far larger than anything we web folks can even imagine.

I believe claims of 'What we see on the web' as proof, is looking at the problem from a very narrow and perhaps foolish perspective.


V

 

My VIN is B49488. So by the information shown in post NR 34 of this thread I interpret the information contained there that my car falls outside of the issue. Onthe other hand my 13 was built in July of 2012 according to the label on the door jamb. Am I understanding this correctly? Comments please.