XK / XKR ( X150 ) 2006 - 2014

XKR timing chain issues - safe VIN?

 
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:33 AM
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Default XKR timing chain issues - safe VIN?

Hi!

This is my first post here, but I've been lurking for a while now.

I will soon be moving to the US and are looking into buying an XKR Facelift as a fun daily driver. I have always adored the X150 and had the pleasure to do brake development work for X150 and F-type as a consultant for MIRA years ago.

All cars have their issues and the two most worrying when doing research seems to be the waterpump/waterpipe and the timing chain tensioners.

My understanding is that this was an issue for the 5.0 between 2009-2012.

My question: is there a clear breaking point in VIN numbers affected and not? I.e. is all MY13 cars ok or is there still a risk MY 13 cars will suffer the same fault depending on VIN number?

For example - would this car be "Safe": SAJWA4DC8DMB50539

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=233858992

Thanks a lot in advance!

Best regards,
Johan
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Neues View Post
had the pleasure to do brake development work for X150 and F-type as a consultant for MIRA years ago.
Outstanding work, I quite like the results on my F-type with bigger calipers. However, performance aside, I get a lot of grief over it being a floating caliper setup from other track guys.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:31 AM
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There is no defined problem with timing chain or tensioners.
In fact Jaguar is basing its defense in a court case on the lack of any established pattern.

Finding one where the correct oil was used is the key to avoiding a lot of heartbreak.
Thats solving the problem backwards, there are several cars here that have had no trouble, and their full history is known.
I have been following this subject for years, and the only common pattern I have been able to see on cars that needed, TC, tensioner was; maintenance was not clear-cut.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:07 PM
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Thanks for answering, much appreciated. I do understand that maintenance is key to avoid this problem, but if I re-phrase:

At which point (if any) in time was the design of the tensioner/chain re-designed?

As far as I can tell the cars with issues were all 2009-2012 model year cars, true/not true?

I for example have not seen any F-type V8 S or R's mentioned having this problem. To me that indicates that there was an update to the design of the engine even if JLR doesn't recognize this officially?

When reading on RR forums it seems some members try to purchase 2013 onwards cars with allegedly updated design to the critical parts. Difficult to know what is true and not.

Cheers!
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:45 PM
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Thats right 2013 saw the modification to the tensioner guides.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:14 PM
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Johan,

I live in Winston-Salem, NC, just about 30 miles away from Greensboro. We have an active car community and Jaguar club, the Carolina Jaguar Club, and I'd encourage you to join. You'll be able to meet owners of modern and classic Jags. I can recommend some shops to do an inspection of any car you are considering purchasing. Please don't hesitate to reach out when you arrive. Please feel to contact me by PM on here and I'll be glad to get you connected into the car enthusiast group in the area.

Cheers,

Peter
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:43 PM
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Wait... what? I know the early 4.0 liter XK8's had a tensioner issue, but Jaguar fixed that in 2003 with the 4.2 liter engine and metal tensioners. Did they repeat that issue with the 5.0 liter engines?

I'm asking because I'm buying a 2010 XKR on Saturday. I don't mind digging into an engine to swap out timing chain tensioners, but I'd like to find out about the issue before I bury the valves into the cylinders due to a broken tensioner.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:47 PM
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I've also only heard of it on the X100s also, didn't have the problem on my 2000 so that was good.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:56 PM
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For chain tensioner and guide details, see: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...t-done-214277/
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:45 PM
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Aw yeah, NOW I remember. The Oil Pressure, Spring and Ratchet knocked my memory.
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:43 AM
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:15 PM
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So sorry, Nonsense. No more than any engine that will need work sooner or later.
Go have a look at the exact same 5.0 engines in the LR4 V8. Many have done over 150,000 miles.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...9887/overview/
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:26 PM
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Here is a 5.0 SC with 170,000 miles. All documented. No engine work.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...2118/overview/
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...&partner=CDM_O

Here is one with 150,000 miles that was serviced at Hennessy Jaguar. Note what was done for 120,000 mile service.
No engine work.
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...&partner=CDM_U

Here is one where it had one owner from 35000 miles to 140,000 miles, thoroughly inspected and serviced at JLR throughout
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...&partner=CDM_U
 

Last edited by Queen and Country; 05-17-2019 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:02 PM
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Odds are that those high mileage engines were serviced "by the book" at proper intervals with the required spec motor oil and filters. Used, loved, and not abused.

But ... you can't rely on CarFax. It's not worth the paper it's written on.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news...fax_facts.html
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:26 PM
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Way back when, my neighbor at the time and I both bought 5.0 1988 Thunderbirds about six weeks apart. I beat the royal hell out of mine and ... I think Oh hell, can't remember his name. I can' picture him in my brain-hole but no name.
ANYWAY..... I beat on mine and he babied his constantly. Wouldn't mash the skinny, take corners, leave stoplights..... would NEVER get a kickdown on the freeway. The kind of guy I'd HATE to be riding with, or even behind him on the road.
AGAIN I got side-tracked, sorry.
So, he babied his 'bird and I whupped on mine. His died in like three years and probably less than 15k miles, had a bad engine knock and trans slipping. Mine kept going for just over 100k miles, but I DID once get the tranny repaired because the old Ford AOD transmissions would die instantaneously if they ever went into Overdrive while over 85mph. That's what mine did, burned up the OD part.
I sold it for a goodly sum, nothing wrong with it other than the front end bushings were starting to complain. Guy who bought it was quite happy, even when I saw him again a year or so afterwards.

Some cars suck, other ones are golden.
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:07 PM
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Is the 5.0 an interference engine? (Do the valves and pistons slam into each other if the timing gets off?)

That was one of the issues with the 4.0 engine in the early XK8's. If the stupid-*** plastic tensioner broke. the valves would punch holes in the top of the pistons and the entire engine would have to be replaced.

Most cars these days have a timing BELT. If the belt breaks you just get the car towed to the shop, they replace the belt, and you go on your way. But with an interference engine a broken belt/chain results in catastrophic damage to the engine.

So... do I have to worry about having my car towed to a junkyard if the tensioner gives up the ghost, or is it just an expensive inconvenience?
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:37 PM
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Yes, failure of the timing chain causes the camshafts and crankshaft to go out of synchronization, which can cause the pistons and valves to slam into each other. If you hear the noise at startup, get it checked before it's too late.

Jaguar Land Rover Timing Chain Lawsuit Says Engines Fail | CarComplaints.com
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 12:17 PM
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The problem is indeed a Jaguar design flaw from the introduction of the 5.0l (late 2009?) until it was discovered and corrected by Jaguar in late 2012.

You cannot have hardened steel (tensioner plunger) constantly hitting softer aluminum (tensioner arm), and not expect damage. (in fact, I don't think there is any other point on the engine that has steel to aluminum contact in a reciprocating manor.) This is acting like a jackhammer, and aluminum simply can't take it...

You can argue 'oil' and 'service' until you turn blue. I could care less....
Jaguar did not, change any oil specifications or procedures until 2015, showing that after the late 2012 update they remained comfortable with the current oil recommendations.

To be clear.....Jaguar themselves acknowledged the design flaw, and corrected it in later engines.
JLR has also warned all shops to install the redesigned parts 'IF' the owner complains about noise or failure... and not before. At the owners cost of thousands... of course...

Those of us with 2010 - 2012 engines have been the proving grounds for what will be a costly design flaw.
For us, it is not a question of 'if'... but 'when'...

Vince
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 02:00 PM
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I hope that a member of this Forum is a lawyer in a firm that specializes in class action lawsuits and owns a 5.0L Jag.
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 02:10 PM
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If that when is 150,000 miles then its beyond the useful life of a chain in a DI engine.

It a catch 22. The reason one can have runout on the tensioner is because there is so much elongation in the chain.

Its not just in Jaguar, every car with DI.

An excellent independent test that shows how to reduce timing chain slack by as much as 50%

https://www.infineuminsight.com/arti...ng-chain-wear/

https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/...ch-oils-fault/
 

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