XKR vs 911s[991]
#1
01-06-2016, 07:17 AM
XKR vs 911s[991]
Hello all - it's been awhile! I recently traded in my XKR on a 991 and wrote a review that I thought would be entertaining for everyone. 911 is NOT better but VERY different - hopefully the review conveys that. Also a link to see some of the Pcar guy reactions.
First Impressions of 991 ownership - 6SpeedOnline - Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource
Thanks everyone for the insight and especially those that took time to PM me more specifics. A few days age we took adopted our German! She's a C2S Cab with ~3K miles. It has the full cow, infinitely adjustable sport seats plus(still learning the lingo), sport Plus, Bose etc.
Driving impressions and disclaimer. I came from a Jag with monstrous torque of a giant twin screw strapped to a 5.0 V8. The inside was very luxurious with sticked, soft leather EVERYwhere. It was like a modern, high end buick - just not so modern really. When people say the 991 is a GT car - they don't know what that means. It is softer than a 997.2 for sure but so much more RAW than the jag. I can actually feel what the road is doing and it's been some time since I had that experience. The Jag was far more comfortable - in a floaty sort of way. While the Porsche is almost as fast in a straight line - you have to work for it and while the exhaust is not as magnificent as the Mina Gallery set up on the jag(think english V8- the people who've been making the Aston V8's for decades), the porsche requires you to work for it as she turns into some sort of S&B mistress looking for small animals to gobble of in her rasps. While doing so in the Jag I was holding on with white knuckles and praying for traction(we're talking in a straight line and not even getting into a turn!) The Porsche taunts me with a villainous laugh to go harder.
The Cabin - lets just say Porsche isn't so luxurious or really refined... the 991 was a big leap so it was the perfect car to get into Porsche with. That being said - having a "luxurious" cockpit was never the point and still isn't. But this was one of the draws to the child I sent to the orphanage. It may seem bigger than the 997... but to the rest of the cars being put in the "GT" class it is tiny - we'll use the word intimate. At 6'3" I fit fine and don't even have to put the seat all of the way back.
The PDK - seems pretty good but it's not really faster than the ZF I was used to. Jag really missed the boat with the tiny - cheap - plastic paddles which stuck out as a single shortcut on quality inside the cabin. Porsche nailed the feel of the paddles and the sport steering wheel!
Infotainment - The Bose system is good for a Bose but can't come close the audio quality of the B&W of the jag. Everywhere else regarding the infotainment is blown away. The jag has what seemed like a first generation touch screen with graphics from the original Atari. The Porsche is complex, modern and everything does something meaningful from what I have played with so far. Everything exists for a better driving experience. It's awesome.
The Jag was a Beautiful car - the p car looks so much more fun! I am really happy I made the decision. I'll put it this way - the jag was enjoyable to drive but very dull after accelerating a couple of times with no effort. The Porsche wants you to push her.
3.8 vs 3.0tt predictions. When BMW released the 335i there was much talk about it being faster than the E46 M3. It wasn't. It had turbo torque which made it feel faster for daily driving vs the torquless rev happy S54. The turbo engines will feel faster for city driving and shifting at low RPMs for sure. But the 991.2's will likely not be that much faster. Smoother - likely.
Driving impressions and disclaimer. I came from a Jag with monstrous torque of a giant twin screw strapped to a 5.0 V8. The inside was very luxurious with sticked, soft leather EVERYwhere. It was like a modern, high end buick - just not so modern really. When people say the 991 is a GT car - they don't know what that means. It is softer than a 997.2 for sure but so much more RAW than the jag. I can actually feel what the road is doing and it's been some time since I had that experience. The Jag was far more comfortable - in a floaty sort of way. While the Porsche is almost as fast in a straight line - you have to work for it and while the exhaust is not as magnificent as the Mina Gallery set up on the jag(think english V8- the people who've been making the Aston V8's for decades), the porsche requires you to work for it as she turns into some sort of S&B mistress looking for small animals to gobble of in her rasps. While doing so in the Jag I was holding on with white knuckles and praying for traction(we're talking in a straight line and not even getting into a turn!) The Porsche taunts me with a villainous laugh to go harder.
The Cabin - lets just say Porsche isn't so luxurious or really refined... the 991 was a big leap so it was the perfect car to get into Porsche with. That being said - having a "luxurious" cockpit was never the point and still isn't. But this was one of the draws to the child I sent to the orphanage. It may seem bigger than the 997... but to the rest of the cars being put in the "GT" class it is tiny - we'll use the word intimate. At 6'3" I fit fine and don't even have to put the seat all of the way back.
The PDK - seems pretty good but it's not really faster than the ZF I was used to. Jag really missed the boat with the tiny - cheap - plastic paddles which stuck out as a single shortcut on quality inside the cabin. Porsche nailed the feel of the paddles and the sport steering wheel!
Infotainment - The Bose system is good for a Bose but can't come close the audio quality of the B&W of the jag. Everywhere else regarding the infotainment is blown away. The jag has what seemed like a first generation touch screen with graphics from the original Atari. The Porsche is complex, modern and everything does something meaningful from what I have played with so far. Everything exists for a better driving experience. It's awesome.
The Jag was a Beautiful car - the p car looks so much more fun! I am really happy I made the decision. I'll put it this way - the jag was enjoyable to drive but very dull after accelerating a couple of times with no effort. The Porsche wants you to push her.
3.8 vs 3.0tt predictions. When BMW released the 335i there was much talk about it being faster than the E46 M3. It wasn't. It had turbo torque which made it feel faster for daily driving vs the torquless rev happy S54. The turbo engines will feel faster for city driving and shifting at low RPMs for sure. But the 991.2's will likely not be that much faster. Smoother - likely.
#2
01-06-2016, 08:19 AM
Veteran Member
Nice write up and interesting perspective. Although I am impressed and respect the performance of the evolution of Porsche I am not impressed with the styling. The only one I somewhat liked was the old 928 but as history has shown this was not a very popular model. I watched the changes from the late 50's style which I thought was a VW on growing pains to some of the latest models . I don't see how I could go from the XK type style to the Porsche type style but that's personal taste and it's what makes the world go around. Thanks
#3
01-06-2016, 09:00 AM
Veteran Member
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mosesbotbol (01-07-2016)
#4
01-06-2016, 09:02 AM
Veteran Member
I agree with jagtoes; I don't see how I could go from the stylish 5.0 XKR to the p-car that is getting far too worn in the styling department. Also, I have an extremely strong resistance to any car with the engine hanging out behind the rear axle. I only drove a 930 Turbo fast once and it almost killed me. Won't give it a second chance.
#5
01-06-2016, 10:10 AM
I think the comparison between the two cars is spot on. I don't own a Porsche...I am an XKR driver. But I do have a very close friend who has a 996 (911 turbo). We have swapped cars for comparison sake and here is my impression on the Porsche and the XKR.
The Jag by far and away is more comfortable and luxurious. The Porsche by design is Spartan. If I were to drive more than a 50 mile road trip it would be the Jag every time!!!
Acceleration in a straight line to 130mph. The Jag seems to get to 80 or 90 a little faster. Them the Porsche really picks up speed from 80-130. In the end you could probably throw a blanket over them in terms of raw speed and acceleration.
Handling on tight turns and roads. Porsche by a landslide!!!! That car is amazing on steering. It seems to turn as you think. The responsiveness is freaky and fun as heck.
Sound and pizzazz. I think this a personal preference. The Jag in full Hooligan mode with the screaming and snarling V-8 is spectacular. But I have to admit that when you open up the 996 it has a unique sound that says, "I go really fast too". My preference is the Jag....but the Porsche is hardly a slouch.
Braking...Porsche by a nose. I am always amazed by how good the breaks are on the XKR. But the Porsche just seems a little better.
Looks...Again I am going to say personal preference. When you are out in either car, you get the same smiles, questions, and thumbs up where ever you go. I personally like the Jag in the beauty queen department. It really is something special.
If my buddy asked me to take his 996 off his hands tomorrow, I'd gladly do it. The Porsche has its place in my heart and in the driving world. If I wanted to go out and stomp around the back roads with reckless abandon I'd take the Porsche every time. If I wanted to go for a fun drive with Mrs. Kyle191 3 hours down to the beach or a night on the town...Jag all the way.
I guess the thing I like about the Jag the most is it's understated performance. The Porsche looks like Darth Vader's Death Star. Everyone knows it is a rocket. But it never ceases to be fun when you launch off a red light in the XKR and see people's faces at the next stop. "What the heck is that thing that goes so fast?"
The Jag by far and away is more comfortable and luxurious. The Porsche by design is Spartan. If I were to drive more than a 50 mile road trip it would be the Jag every time!!!
Acceleration in a straight line to 130mph. The Jag seems to get to 80 or 90 a little faster. Them the Porsche really picks up speed from 80-130. In the end you could probably throw a blanket over them in terms of raw speed and acceleration.
Handling on tight turns and roads. Porsche by a landslide!!!! That car is amazing on steering. It seems to turn as you think. The responsiveness is freaky and fun as heck.
Sound and pizzazz. I think this a personal preference. The Jag in full Hooligan mode with the screaming and snarling V-8 is spectacular. But I have to admit that when you open up the 996 it has a unique sound that says, "I go really fast too". My preference is the Jag....but the Porsche is hardly a slouch.
Braking...Porsche by a nose. I am always amazed by how good the breaks are on the XKR. But the Porsche just seems a little better.
Looks...Again I am going to say personal preference. When you are out in either car, you get the same smiles, questions, and thumbs up where ever you go. I personally like the Jag in the beauty queen department. It really is something special.
If my buddy asked me to take his 996 off his hands tomorrow, I'd gladly do it. The Porsche has its place in my heart and in the driving world. If I wanted to go out and stomp around the back roads with reckless abandon I'd take the Porsche every time. If I wanted to go for a fun drive with Mrs. Kyle191 3 hours down to the beach or a night on the town...Jag all the way.
I guess the thing I like about the Jag the most is it's understated performance. The Porsche looks like Darth Vader's Death Star. Everyone knows it is a rocket. But it never ceases to be fun when you launch off a red light in the XKR and see people's faces at the next stop. "What the heck is that thing that goes so fast?"
#6
01-06-2016, 10:10 AM
As a former Porsche owner I can say this.
Porsche luxury? Same as GM quality, Yugo engineering, Citroen reliability, BMW Mini originality, Ferrari affordability and Veyron economy.
The 911 series is a hell of car but when I attend the local Atlanta "caffeine and exotics" car meet their are 30+ 911's lined up and largely ignored. I'm the only XKR and it gets far more attention especially from the opposite sex. The Porsche is a better ultimate drivers car but that's not the Jags mission.
I do wish you best of luck with your new toy!
Porsche luxury? Same as GM quality, Yugo engineering, Citroen reliability, BMW Mini originality, Ferrari affordability and Veyron economy.
The 911 series is a hell of car but when I attend the local Atlanta "caffeine and exotics" car meet their are 30+ 911's lined up and largely ignored. I'm the only XKR and it gets far more attention especially from the opposite sex. The Porsche is a better ultimate drivers car but that's not the Jags mission.
I do wish you best of luck with your new toy!
Last edited by flyc2c; 01-06-2016 at 10:18 AM.
#7
01-06-2016, 10:18 AM
I just came off my 2nd Porsche recently here's my .02 which isn't a lot these days. My other choice when considering the Jag was a 911 Carrera C4S. I have not driven a turbo so cannot comment on that
Porsche's interiors are sadly lacking. Luxury is not a thought, there are MUCH more German therefore utilitarian in nature. Think function over form. Not a bad thing as they are more race oriented than luxury. Not cheap just not built for luxury. With the except of the PanAmera their interiors don't run me on at all.
Engines - there seems to be a lot going on back there and it let's you know that. You hear and feel every piece working back there, not a bad thing just very different.
Driving experience - this is where Porsche wins hands down! Both of mine felt as though the car was an extension of me. It was truly "point and shoot inspiring great confidence feeling like a quarter horse just begging me to run fast. The steering was balanced perfectly, you felt everything but not to the point of being annoying, you knew exactly what the car was doing and what it was capable of.
Buying a new Porsche was "interesting" s EVERYTHING is ala cart pricing, and I mean everything!
My first one I had an awful experience with regarding the dealership then also bad when I brought into PCNA so much so that I took them to the BBB (don't EVER bother with them it is a total waste of time and energy) then eventually filed a lemon law suit which I quickly won. My second I bought used VERY much under market then sold a year or two later making a profit.
Porsche is NOT a GT car, it is a sports car toned down a little to make it more street friendly and possibly a daily driver. In the end I laugh when people try to compare the two. The Jag competes with AM, BMW 6 series two door, the MAsarati GT. even the Corvette in many ways but definitely not Porsche. Porsche competes with Lotus, some Ferrari's etc in the sports car class.
Porsche's interiors are sadly lacking. Luxury is not a thought, there are MUCH more German therefore utilitarian in nature. Think function over form. Not a bad thing as they are more race oriented than luxury. Not cheap just not built for luxury. With the except of the PanAmera their interiors don't run me on at all.
Engines - there seems to be a lot going on back there and it let's you know that. You hear and feel every piece working back there, not a bad thing just very different.
Driving experience - this is where Porsche wins hands down! Both of mine felt as though the car was an extension of me. It was truly "point and shoot inspiring great confidence feeling like a quarter horse just begging me to run fast. The steering was balanced perfectly, you felt everything but not to the point of being annoying, you knew exactly what the car was doing and what it was capable of.
Buying a new Porsche was "interesting" s EVERYTHING is ala cart pricing, and I mean everything!
My first one I had an awful experience with regarding the dealership then also bad when I brought into PCNA so much so that I took them to the BBB (don't EVER bother with them it is a total waste of time and energy) then eventually filed a lemon law suit which I quickly won. My second I bought used VERY much under market then sold a year or two later making a profit.
Porsche is NOT a GT car, it is a sports car toned down a little to make it more street friendly and possibly a daily driver. In the end I laugh when people try to compare the two. The Jag competes with AM, BMW 6 series two door, the MAsarati GT. even the Corvette in many ways but definitely not Porsche. Porsche competes with Lotus, some Ferrari's etc in the sports car class.
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#8
01-06-2016, 10:27 AM
The 911 was always my dream car. Friends had Ferrari F40's and Countach posters on their walls but 911 was always what I wanted. Around 2008 my business was starting to take off and I finally had some money to start realistically considering some slightly used but higher class cars. I visited a Porsche dealership and drove a cayenne and sat in a cayman. I couldn't believe how "base" they seemed and how fast the price went up when you started adding options that seemed standard on their rivals. I was really disappointed. I understand now that porsche is about the driving machine aspect that is fun but I have learned that I prefer a little more creature comforts. I'm still open to a 911 someday but when I recently did my search to replace my XK with a peppier fun car the XKR seemed to be the only realistic option.
#9
01-06-2016, 10:48 AM
Veteran Member
#10
01-06-2016, 10:54 AM
Veteran Member
I got my XK because of a take home test drive in a 991 woke up to some of the conviences modern cars have vs my thirty two year old Porsche. If prices and maintenance were equal, I'd be in the 991 for three reasons.
The 911 wins in:
The steering wheel on the XK is a real shortcoming, and with modern electronics, I sadly doubt there is much I can do about it. Its not comfortable on long trips not being able to grip around the wheel.
Gauge Design, the XK's split design is about as comfortable as a guy getting dropped with a fence post between the legs. It would of been better to go all digital, or all analogue, or integrate like the 991 did with digital screens behind gauges. 991 Gives fast, better info to.
Handling Balance. This is probably personal preference, but I drive a little slow in, make a lot of the corner, then feed on throttle early for a fast exit. The XK doesn't do this, and I have adapt, the 911, its natural, I can go from driving a kart to the 911 with little style changes whatsoever.
You can lay the seats back in the 991!!!!
Sound is subjective, in the USA, a V8 is a truck engine, so the flat 6 stands out as unique.
The steering wheel, and the lack of usable dash pod gauges are the two biggest dings the XK gets.
The XK's strongest point, is the maintenance schedule, erh, lack of it really. Porsche likes to hit you with $$$ anywhere they can, and if parts only last 3 years, its good for them on selling you new ones. Maybe things are different with the 991.
The XK is a fantastic buy on the used car market.
The XK is sort of weird to drive in the jealous look on a certain set of people when it drives by. The 911 didn't get that(But I didn't have it for long). I think people see the 911 more like a open cockpit bi-plane, and the XK more like a learjet. Hey, look at that crazy guy having fun in a 911, glad I'm not crazy like him and have my trusty SUV/Mini-van, vs, man, I wish I could afford his Jag.
The 911 wins in:
The steering wheel on the XK is a real shortcoming, and with modern electronics, I sadly doubt there is much I can do about it. Its not comfortable on long trips not being able to grip around the wheel.
Gauge Design, the XK's split design is about as comfortable as a guy getting dropped with a fence post between the legs. It would of been better to go all digital, or all analogue, or integrate like the 991 did with digital screens behind gauges. 991 Gives fast, better info to.
Handling Balance. This is probably personal preference, but I drive a little slow in, make a lot of the corner, then feed on throttle early for a fast exit. The XK doesn't do this, and I have adapt, the 911, its natural, I can go from driving a kart to the 911 with little style changes whatsoever.
You can lay the seats back in the 991!!!!
Sound is subjective, in the USA, a V8 is a truck engine, so the flat 6 stands out as unique.
The steering wheel, and the lack of usable dash pod gauges are the two biggest dings the XK gets.
The XK's strongest point, is the maintenance schedule, erh, lack of it really. Porsche likes to hit you with $$$ anywhere they can, and if parts only last 3 years, its good for them on selling you new ones. Maybe things are different with the 991.
The XK is a fantastic buy on the used car market.
The XK is sort of weird to drive in the jealous look on a certain set of people when it drives by. The 911 didn't get that(But I didn't have it for long). I think people see the 911 more like a open cockpit bi-plane, and the XK more like a learjet. Hey, look at that crazy guy having fun in a 911, glad I'm not crazy like him and have my trusty SUV/Mini-van, vs, man, I wish I could afford his Jag.
#11
01-06-2016, 11:00 AM
Veteran Member
#12
01-06-2016, 04:14 PM
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#13
01-07-2016, 06:03 AM
Veteran Member
It'll take a very expensive 991 to match the interior appointments of an XKR. My buddy just bought a 991 and it's rougher riding more sports car than the XK. Both are timeless bodies and you can't go wrong with either.
XKR is more sensual shape. Tough choice between the two, but I am British car guy...
XKR is more sensual shape. Tough choice between the two, but I am British car guy...
#14
01-07-2016, 07:26 AM
Veteran Member
I think the difference is anyone on the street would say "hey look at that Porsche" but with the XK it is more like "wow what is that exotic". Same can be said about the BMW 650 series . When you see it's grill you don't bother to look at the rest of the car. I think you get the wow factor with AM and Maz but the ultimate is the F car. These are Joe 6 pack comments in anywhere USA streets. Just my opinion.
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amcdonal86 (01-07-2016)
#15
01-07-2016, 10:25 AM
I'm definitely not trying to say that either is better/worse! Just a fun comparison. The primary driver for getting rid of the Jag is the awful dealer support and unethical nature of Scott Jaguar in Charlotte, NC.
Perspective is key here.
997 to 991 - much better cabin and luxurious in comparison. More comfortable and spacious. Quality is a great improvement and the infotainment is light years ahead of the 997 or Jag. The porsche guys say 991 is a GT car... that is just ignorant. The 911 was made to drive and not really much else. the cup holders suck and there is no usable place to put a phone, etc.
991 to Jag. No jag including the RS or dynamic pack [which I had] can touch the handling of the P - not even close. Compared the the Porsche the Jag is a Rolls Royce. The tech is lacking on the Jag but the raw power and amazing classic style and comfort aren't even in the same planet. The Jag is truly the best GT car in the world - withe the latest S class being a close second.
Think of the Jag as a car you want to drive to the mountains and the Porsche as the car you want to drive once you get there! Think 3100 pounds vs the porcky Jag... 305's in the back on the 911 and 255 on the twice as heavy jag, etc. They are so different and certainly not competitors but again - like today - I took the wife's car in for service and got a new 435 convertible to tool around in am and happy to try a new car! I certainly do agree that the XK is the last of it's kind in terms of class.
My only real gripe about the comparison is that the P car actually has more frunk space than the Jag has in the trunk and the folding shelf you get in the P car is very practical.
Perspective is key here.
997 to 991 - much better cabin and luxurious in comparison. More comfortable and spacious. Quality is a great improvement and the infotainment is light years ahead of the 997 or Jag. The porsche guys say 991 is a GT car... that is just ignorant. The 911 was made to drive and not really much else. the cup holders suck and there is no usable place to put a phone, etc.
991 to Jag. No jag including the RS or dynamic pack [which I had] can touch the handling of the P - not even close. Compared the the Porsche the Jag is a Rolls Royce. The tech is lacking on the Jag but the raw power and amazing classic style and comfort aren't even in the same planet. The Jag is truly the best GT car in the world - withe the latest S class being a close second.
Think of the Jag as a car you want to drive to the mountains and the Porsche as the car you want to drive once you get there! Think 3100 pounds vs the porcky Jag... 305's in the back on the 911 and 255 on the twice as heavy jag, etc. They are so different and certainly not competitors but again - like today - I took the wife's car in for service and got a new 435 convertible to tool around in am and happy to try a new car! I certainly do agree that the XK is the last of it's kind in terms of class.
My only real gripe about the comparison is that the P car actually has more frunk space than the Jag has in the trunk and the folding shelf you get in the P car is very practical.
#17
01-07-2016, 11:54 AM
Veteran Member
It is always interesting to read comparison between GT cars like the XK/XKR, 650/M6, and SL/SL AMG to a 911. It is a natural thing to do since people that can afford high-end cars and like performance will have some crossover into these vehicles.
The reviews are always identical, having read this a hundred times there is no surprise. The reality is that I would love to own both. The Porsche for the rawer sportscar experience and the XKR for the luxury experience.
Now that every car brand seems to offer a 500hp vehicle the comparisons will continue. While the XKR is a closer comparison you might as well try and contrast a Jeep SRT to a Porsche, with 0-60 in 4.6 seconds it is fast enough. Is it a comparison, no, and I don't think the XKR is either, regardless of how much closer to a Porshce the XKR seems to be!
The reviews are always identical, having read this a hundred times there is no surprise. The reality is that I would love to own both. The Porsche for the rawer sportscar experience and the XKR for the luxury experience.
Now that every car brand seems to offer a 500hp vehicle the comparisons will continue. While the XKR is a closer comparison you might as well try and contrast a Jeep SRT to a Porsche, with 0-60 in 4.6 seconds it is fast enough. Is it a comparison, no, and I don't think the XKR is either, regardless of how much closer to a Porshce the XKR seems to be!
#18
01-07-2016, 01:40 PM
#20
01-08-2016, 07:18 AM