Jon,

As per our convo last night I just wanted to subscribe to the thread to be kept in the loop.

I assume that you are at the dealer in Greensboro as I type this...

Please keep us updated.

Thanks,

George

 

I've been keeping up with this thread for obvious reasons. Just a shot in the dark---could the ZF be relearning its shifting modes after the drain/refill? I remember that my car had a couple of hard shifts in the 2nd to third range after disconnecting the battery for a day. Just a thought--- I would continue your course of action and just monitor the drive cycles before dropping any $$$ into reprogramming the tranny.

 

Update:

First, let me state that I received absolutely world-class service at Flow Jaguar in Greensboro today. Whenever I need dealer services in the future, I will drive there in a heartbeat. They are truly outstanding people. And now, the full story....

Within five minutes of getting my wife's XK8 up in the air, the tech came to the waiting area and asked me to follow him back to the car. He pointed out that when Rick and I did our pan/filter/sleeve/fluid change last week, we did not get the new sleeve fully seated into position. It was sticking out less than a quarter-inch too far, but still far enough to 1) allow for a few drops of Lifeguard 6 to drip out and 2) not allow the electrical connector to be completely and firmly seated into its socket. At first I was not convinced, so he showed me a correctly-fitted sleeve on a Range Rover on the lift next to mine. I peered up at my sleeve, then looked at the Range Rover sleeve, looked again at my sleeve, and looked once more at the Range Rover sleeve. I could not deny that my sleeve stuck out that quarter-inch distance more than the Range Rover sleeve did. So we have a potential leak problem as well as a potential less-than-full-contact electrical connector problem....

The tech told me that he could proceed with the ZF Adaptation process if I wanted, but he could not recommend it until my sleeve issue was fixed. My heart sank because I knew that meant another pan drop, five or six more litres of Lifeguard 6 at full dealership price, and the labor required to do the job. I knew I was probably facing a $600 or $700 bill just to fix the sleeve before they could do the ZF Adaptation procedure....

That's when the service manager jumped in to save the day for me. He knew my new pan/filter, sleeve, and Lifeguard 6 were only eight days old. He said "Jon, I know you guys did your best working on your backs in your buddy's garage in Charlotte last week. I appreciate your confidence in us by driving here from Raleigh this morning. I know I can help you out."

So the tech, the service manager, and I all huddled up to put a plan together. My eight-day-old Lifeguard 6 would be drained and saved to be pumped back into my ZF after the sleeve was properly snugged into place and the pan was reattached. If they had to use any additional Lifeguard 6 to properly fill up the ZF, they would not charge me for it. So the only new part I had to buy was a pan gasket ($35)....

Guys, they did this for a grand total of $275. I feel very, very lucky indeed....

After the sleeve was fixed, the pan reattached, and the fluid pumped back in, the tech proceeded to clear the TCM, automatically upload the latest firmware, and perform the ZF adaptation procedure for the previously agreed-to price of $175. The ZF had not thrown any fault codes during its month-long sporadic rough shifts from 1 to 2. The adaptation procedure went perfectly....

So six hours after I drove into the service bay at 8:00 am, everything was done. Keep in mind that the ZF had to cool down enough for them to work on it - it was an 80-plus mile drive from my house to the dealership in the heat of summer, so the car was firecracker-hot....

My total invoice for properly fitting the sleeve and then doing the TCM clearing / firmware loading / adaptations procedure was $446.94. I couldn't thank those guys enough for taking care of me the way they did. I feel very, very lucky indeed....

The moral of the story is to check and double-check that sleeve very carefully when you change it. Rick and I did not think that you could successfully close that white plastic retaining bracket up into it until you have the sleeve exactly in its proper position, but that is not true. The bracket can close even when the sleeve is still sticking out one-quarter inch too far. My wife's XK8 is living proof....

But hey, we live and learn. I would do this again with Rick in a heartbeat now that I know what to look for. But take my word for it - it is MUCH easier to see the sleeve standing underneath the car while it is up on a lift than it is when you are working on your backs with the car maybe two feet off the garage floor....

By the way, the car drove like a dream all the way home. The tech thinks it's fixed, I think it's fixed, but it's my wife's car and she gets to be the final judge. We'll give her the weekend and into next week before we know. I'll try to keep this thread updated with the results....

One more big "thanks" shout-out to the guys at Flow Jaguar in Greensboro....

 

Jon,

Great news. I'm impressed with the way they diagnosed the fault and were able to convincingly demonstrate the issue to you so precisely by comparison to the Range Rover on the next lift.

I hope that it's the end of this one for you.

Graham

 

Nothing pleases me more than to hear a story with a successful ending. The service manager and mechanic should be given Kudos for working with you, not often experienced by others. Please keep us posted on the repair. I am still awaiting a response from ZF on your question.

 

Sounds like an outstanding dealership.
Hopefully they have got to the bottom of your problem, keep us posted.

 

Ah Jon, I am so sorry that I did you wrong.

As you pointed out I did not believe that one could engage the white sleeve retainer with the sleeve out of place. So gentlemen remember this!

I believe you are on the right path and will have many, many more miles on that ZF box.

 

Rick,

Absolutely no worries my friend, WE (not just you) did the best we could do under the circumstances. Remember how much we had to fight that new sleeve before it finally fit into place and we were able to successfully close the white retaining clip. Both of us fully believed that clip could NOT be closed unless the new sleeve was 100% correctly in place. As it turned out, we closed the clip up into the wrong groove in the sleeve. You and I had no way of knowing that because working on our backs with the bottom of the car just two feet above us, we could not really see the sleeve once it was installed. Standing under the lift yesterday with the car over our heads, it was easy to see the sleeve sticking out just a shade too far compared to the Range Rover's sleeve on the adjacent lift....

Hey, these things happen and we can all use them as valuable learning experiences. I would drive to Charlotte and work with you on either of our Jaguars again in a heartbeat - you are one of the best shade-tree mechanics I know and even with this little hiccup with the sleeve, I had a blast spending the morning with you and seeing your gorgeous place there....

So don't worry about this situation for even a second. If yesterday's service at Flow Jaguar in Greensboro fixed Jan's ZF issue, I will be thrilled to finally get her to quit hammering me about it and I spent peanuts compared to what any other shop would have charged me to get that sleeve fitted correctly....

So go pop a couple of those Rolling Rocks and enjoy your weekend!

 

VERY useful thread, Many thanks for the effort of documenting the details of the whole saga so well!

That said, I believe you ALSO revealed a more-common possible contributor to rude shifting - especially when it comes and goes. That of low battery voltage.

I'm about to add a voltmeter to my recently acquired XJ8-L because of that highly-suspect contributor to INTERMITTENT shifting, ABS/DSC warnings.

Couple those with our own family's known to be highly sub-optimal vehicle use here - a chronic pattern of myriad VERY short trips - many under a half mile - between far longer ones.

Problems always go away after a 100+ mile trip, return a few days later after constant use of 'global open' etc on 1/2 mile to 10 miles local runs, so...

'smoking gun', if ever was ...

Solved a similar issue on an aged Mum's late and unlamented Buick with a 'float' or sustaining type 'smart' charger mounted underhood, with front-bumper-mounted plug and a cable-anchored cord she could just back way from rather than wrestle with detaching.

I'll post a new thread when I have better evidence, but VW's use of a supplementary battery in their 'Phaeton' now seems to make more sense than at first glance.

Controllers for those are touted from the usual suspects among Marine/RV sources, but IMNSHO the onboard 'float' charger is better value-for-money as it is less hassle to install and also enhances the probability that one can crank the motor 'regardless'...

 

Thermite,

You are correct in your belief that low battery voltage can cause transmission faults in these vehicles. Failing batteries are the source of many quirky issues, well-documented across this forum for years. My wife's XK8's factory battery began exhibiting signs of failure in late September 2012. I replaced it immediately with the appropriate Bosch model. No known battery-related issues since, but I always keep an eye on the batteries in both of our Jaguars and check the water in the cells at least every three months (more often during our hot summers). Our 2005 S-Type is still running its factory battery after more than eight years. Of course now that I've said that, it will conk out on me within two weeks....

 

Disclosure; C&W pensioner, Northrop-Page with focus on off-grid military telco-site power much earlier-on, so batteries and their personalities are old acquaintances.

Only wondering how very many of the foibles of recent-manufacture 'computerized' Jaguar's - and their Teutonic alleged-competition - could have been put to rest early-on with more attention to detail in that so-very-basic area.

Drain is bad enough when the classical 20-30 minute minimum run to replace a single crank-over on my ignorant bare-bones-electrical GMC pickup is not met.

Goes disastrous Real Soon Now on something as power-hungry as the X350 when a global-open moves four windows, sunroof, door locks, four cycles of power seat re-home/retract, plus audio and air-con blowers... lights and screen heaters as well, even if only an evening run to 7-Eleven in winter. Add a security and monitoring system that sleepeth not all night or all week?

If ever a vehicle line should have shipped with factory vetted maintenance/float charger inbuilt and integrated, most of the new luxo-vehicles are prime candidates, and Jaguars have to be close to the head of that list.

 

Update:

Not quite two days and 150 miles after the ZF adaptation procedure was performed, my wife reports that all is well with her XK8. Smooth shifts, no sporadic jerks between 1 and 2, no 'transmission fault' warnings on the dash. The vehicle is still going through its relearning process, which supposedly requires 200 to 300 miles. Good news all around. We'll see how the next week or so transpires....

 

I too, am hangin' on every post about your tranny, as I am also considering a "re-flash" of my "26" by the dealership in Kansas City. I say considering, because I'm not really having rough shifts - just the surge-surge-surge when cold peculiarity, and the "flashing D" on the J-gate a couple of times a week. (For me, shutting the engine off and turning the ignition on and off one to three times has always cleared the flashing D pain-in-the-butt)

I shift the tranny manually nearly 100% of the time and push my car pretty hard most days and only very occasionally - perhaps once a month, feel a bit of a "rough" shift when going from 2 to 3. Even so, I expect the worst eventually.

I fully subscribe to your Credo: NO MORE ZF TRANSMISSIONS!!!!

If it wasn't such a HUGE fabricating proposition and probably a "CAN-BUS" impossibility, there would be a six speed manual under my hump!

Thanks to you and all other posters for the good info in this thread

 

Even after my reflash to fix harsh 1-2 up shifts almost 2 years ago I still had (have) the cold surge, which I have always attributed to the torque converter. I believe this for a couple of reasons, but one is that it doesn't surge when in sport mode; the torque converter is much more active on non sport mode. But I don't know what others are experiencing regarding severity of the surge, mine is very mild, most probably would not even notice it. I have never been concerned about it, just aware.

 

That's to be expected because it clears the PCM (ECM) learned values (but not the TCM ones). So, it's relearning and will be a little rough till it does. You can speed the process up if you want using the drive cycle details in JTIS (generally in the codes PDF).

 

In case the XJ8 has it, ETM (Engineering Test Mode) may have a voltmeter (it does on the 2003+ S-Type).

 

Thanks for that- will chase.

I also plan analogue, independent (AND NOT tap-off of the potentially-mendacious onboards) for oil and coolant temp gauges.

Finding a place to mount those that doesn't look uber-tatty looks to be as great a challenge as plumbing them in.

 

Update:

Nearly five days after the ZF adaptation procedure was performed, my wife reports that her XK8 is shifting even smoother than when we initially acquired it 18 months and 32,000 miles ago. I think we're close to calling her rough shift issue resolved....

 

I do offer an oil pressure adapter for the Jag V8: Jaguar V8 Oil Pressure Adapter - TheJagWrangler to help with the plumbing. If you want to discuss it further we should open a new thread since this is off topic.

 

Thanks, but no need here. Gauge selection and finding a place to put 'em is the only part I don't have covered.