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'99 XK8 No start..no fire?? HELP

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  #1  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:52 AM
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Default '99 XK8 No start..no fire?? HELP

Pulled my XK8 out in the drive yesterday to clean a couple spots on the roof. Rinsed it off and let it sit to dry off. Went back out several hours later after a brief but hard ran and it started and ran for just a couple of seconds, no more, and then died. Re-cycled the ignition and the starter turned the motor but NO FIRE. Tried a couple of times with the same result.

Thought it might be due to a weak battery even though it's only a year old. Anyway I put a trickle charger on it for probably 3-4 hours and tried again with the same result. Hmmmm says I. Left it on the charger all night for some 12 hours and tried again and still no joy. Same as before, spins but no fire.

Any thoughts before I drop kick it into next week? I will run an SDD later but right now I have to go to an appointment so that will have to wait until after lunch. The only current ones I'm chasing are a #2 cam position not working properly even though it's a new one, and a random misfire that comes and goes at low speeds and I'm beginning to think ECM but no codes indicating that.

To make my week even more miserable my wife's XJ8 is beginning to show possible tranny problems that I want to catch before they get serious.





Ain't life just grand !!!
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:00 AM
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The standard diagnostic for these short runs (just pulling the car out of the garage and shutting down) without warming the engine up is bore wash. Does the starter seem to spin the engine sort of fast, without seeming to encounter the resistance from compression?

I would start with pressing the gas pedal to the floor (this cuts off the injection of more fuel) to see if you can vent the excess fuel and hopefully splash enough oil to coat the bores again. Worst case, you have to pull a few spark plugs and drop a bit of oil on the rings to restore compression. This whole scenario is supposed to be more of an issue on the earlier cars, I believe.

Best of luck, keep us posted.
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:34 AM
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+1. Not uncommon with nikasil lined blocks.
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:02 PM
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Default Tried that...no go

[QUOTE=fmertz;1911199]The standard diagnostic for these short runs (just pulling the car out of the garage and shutting down) without warming the engine up is bore wash. Does the starter seem to spin the engine sort of fast, without seeming to encounter the resistance from compression?

I would start with pressing the gas pedal to the floor (this cuts off the injection of more fuel) to see if you can vent the excess fuel and hopefully splash enough oil to coat the bores again. Worst case, you have to pull a few spark plugs and drop a bit of oil on the rings to restore compression. This whole scenario is supposed to be more of an issue on the earlier cars, I believe.

fmertz........ I tired the foot to the floor with no luck. Also I didn't shut the car down as when I went to start it after it had sat for several hours it started, ran for no more than 1 or 2 seconds and shut down on its own. It was not a starter spinning but not engaging, and it was fighting compression when it did spin over. There was just no sign whatsoever of any spark.

As I posted I even left the charger on overnight to make sure the battery was as charged as it was going to get (I was only using a 6 amp charging rate) and even after sitting for some 12 hours there was no spark despite the starter engaging and the motor turning over.

I returned about an hour ago and checked the battery's state of charge and it was at 12.81 which should certainly be enough to start even if it's a bit low of a full charge state. Any bore wash or flooding should have evaporated over the now almost 24 hours since it first quit running.


When my wife gets home later today I'll pull at plug and while she tries to start it to see if there is sufficient (or any spark) and go from there.
 
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:01 PM
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The rain gives me an idea....the well on the right side by the bottom of the windshield has a lot of electronics and relays in it, it also has a small drain that can plug up, allowing the entire well to fill with water. Check this area to be sure its dry. I found mine almost full one time and just about lost the works!
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by oldmots View Post
The rain gives me an idea....the well on the right side by the bottom of the windshield has a lot of electronics and relays in it, it also has a small drain that can plug up, allowing the entire well to fill with water. Check this area to be sure its dry. I found mine almost full one time and just about lost the works!
Yes, the ECM sits over there and though I would think that since everything else appears to be working properly it's worth the few seconds it would take to look there for a problem. We're in our annual rainy period at the moment and we have daily showers of varying intensities as a routine.
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:30 AM
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The fuel pump relay will click on then off in 3 seconds as the key is turned to the on position before starter position . This primes the fuel line . When the ECM sees engine rotation by the Crankshaft position sensor the fuel pump will click a 3 rd time to on for the duration of the drive . Safety / crash design .

The CKPS can fail in this manor without giving a code . Suggest cleaning sensor connector and sensor face of possible metallic debris .

Do you see RPM during start sequence ?

Can you see how much the voltage drops during starter rotation as the ECM needs 11.4 volts for proper operation .
 

Last edited by Lady Penelope; 06-12-2018 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:50 PM
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Default Progress report...sort of<G>

With some additional input from fmertz and Lady Penelope I spent some time over the past couple of days trying to fix my problem. Thank God for my motorcycles as they at least allow me to get around when the Jag fails me<G>

I tired the bore wash fix of squirting some oil into the cylinders but it didn't work. It may be that I didn't use enough but I didn't notice any real positive effect with what I did so I spent some time today checking the fuel pump and injector electrical systems.

Tested all the assorted relays and the various fuses and they were all good. The inertia switch had not been tripped and there was no water or moisture in any of the bays housing electrical systems. Everything appears to be functioning electrically except it won't start. There is spark however. Working by myself makes some thing difficult, like checking battery draw while cranking and compression while cranking, etc.

I was able to run a scan with my IDS/SDD program but for the first time in the almost 4 years I've been using it it was unable to communicate with ANY module and returned a 0x1003 code stating a serial communications error so that was of no help at all. Keep in mind that it's a '99 so it has to run the scan using IDS which is nowhere near as sophisticated as the later years SDD software.

I haven't yet found a description of that code in the DTC's and a search of the forum was no help either so if anyone has a clue fill me in.

I guess I'll try the bore wash fix again tomorrow and I plan on re-installing my SDD program just in case it got scrambled in my laptop and the fault is in my laptop and not the car.

Beyond that I'll just keep scouring the forum and the '99 svc. manual and JTIS trying to teach myself what techs spend a lifetime learning.
 
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RDMinor View Post
I was able to run a scan with my IDS/SDD program but for the first time in the almost 4 years I've been using it it was unable to communicate with ANY module.
Do you see the battery status in the upper right corner? Should ideally be green. Double check the fuse to the diagnostic connector. I am not positive, but I believe the USB cable is powered from there, USB power is not sufficient. There should also be a light on the connector end of the diagnostic cable. From memory, it needs to be green, but I think it starts by blinking red/green for a bit when first plugged in.
 
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:14 AM
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Default Car starts !!!

Originally Posted by fmertz View Post
Do you see the battery status in the upper right corner? Should ideally be green. Double check the fuse to the diagnostic connector. I am not positive, but I believe the USB cable is powered from there, USB power is not sufficient. There should also be a light on the connector end of the diagnostic cable. From memory, it needs to be green, but I think it starts by blinking red/green for a bit when first plugged in.
I use a trickle charger when ever I scan the car so it wasn't a battery problem. At least not for the scanner function.

I was able to get the car started and running again yesterday even without putting more oil into the cylinders. I suspect that despite the battery being only about a year old that the draw while attempting to start was enough to pull the voltage down below what it needed to get ignition. When I had tested for spark at the plug end the day before I was concerned that the spark, while evident, was not very strong. While doing some other maintenance chores like testing relays and fuses I had re-connected the charger and later noticed while attempting to run the scan that the volt gauge was showing a hair over 13 volts and despite not being able to get a serial connection I figured I'd give the starter another workout and this time the car started almost immediately.

Since this car doesn't get driven regularly and even then most trips are 15-20 miles or less I suspect that the battery never really gets a chance to stay fully charged and over time begins to fade.

I did finally find the vacuum leak as an evap hose hidden, as so much of these cars things are, had become disconnected or loose during the timing chain upgrade. I still have a cam position sensor acting up but a new sensor didn't solve the problem so the search for that Gremlin continues. That and a random misfire along with an A/C leak are the last (I hope) of the niggling problems I have to deal with.

I will check the diagnostic fuse and report back as the loss of an ability to scan would be a real setback.
 
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