ASC and TRAC Error need a little more Info
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192
Likes: 22
From: Kansas City, MO
ASC and TRAC Error need a little more Info
I have a 2001 XKR with 85k on it and have been reading quite a few posts about the ASC and TRAC error/ Limp Mode and have a couple of question before I dive into mine checking the easy things first.
1. If I disconnect the ABS plug from the unit will the car run correctly, thus not getting an error message from the ABS computer?
2. If I go to remove the ABS module to check the solder joints and have to disconnect the brake lines running to it, as one person suggested, do I need to bleed the system after putting them back on? It was never mentioned and didn't look like they were leaking fluid in the pictures that showed the process.
Mine gave me a yellow light a couple of weeks ago and loss power momentarily while accelerating. The second time it when to full red with ASC, TRAC and Limp Mode. This happen while accelerating on a really bumpy entrance ramp the dumped me on to I-35. BTW, There were no shoulder on this two lane freeway around downtown KC and it was around a corner. I was luck I didn't get hit driving 20mph to the next exit!
1. If I disconnect the ABS plug from the unit will the car run correctly, thus not getting an error message from the ABS computer?
2. If I go to remove the ABS module to check the solder joints and have to disconnect the brake lines running to it, as one person suggested, do I need to bleed the system after putting them back on? It was never mentioned and didn't look like they were leaking fluid in the pictures that showed the process.
Mine gave me a yellow light a couple of weeks ago and loss power momentarily while accelerating. The second time it when to full red with ASC, TRAC and Limp Mode. This happen while accelerating on a really bumpy entrance ramp the dumped me on to I-35. BTW, There were no shoulder on this two lane freeway around downtown KC and it was around a corner. I was luck I didn't get hit driving 20mph to the next exit!
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,114
Likes: 1,272
From: North Carolina
Hmmm... definitely bleed the brakes any time you open up a line. You'll almost always end up with air in the line. Bleeding brakes is very easy. The hardest part is jacking up each wheel.
The symptoms you described don't sound like dirty wheel sensors. I don't think those are going to cause it to go into limp mode, at least it never did when I had dirty sensors. The fact that it happened when you were going over a bumpy road makes me think it's the solder joints.
The symptoms you described don't sound like dirty wheel sensors. I don't think those are going to cause it to go into limp mode, at least it never did when I had dirty sensors. The fact that it happened when you were going over a bumpy road makes me think it's the solder joints.
Veteran member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,344
Likes: 1,163
From: Oak Ridge, TN
I'm leaning towards the abs module also...not sure about the disconnection of the brake lines, and IIRC, removal wont affect your brakes...just the ABS system wont be active...and you're likely to keep the nice lighted display.
Veteran Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 326
From: Chesapeake Bay area, Virginia
I had a restricted performance light on and when I pulled each ABS wheel sensor, I found moisture in one of them, this was the problem. After spraying the sensor out with electronics cleaner, everything has been fine.
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192
Likes: 22
From: Kansas City, MO
Thanks for the info so far, more is always better.
I'm thinking battery too because when I went to drive it yesterday it started in limp mode with ASC and TRAC displayed. I tried restarting it after waiting about 30 seconds and got the same running in limp mode. I have seen BMW motorcycle do this with their ABS system because the battery was week or even just the wrong type, wet cell instead of glass mat.
If I do end up going after the PC board I'll try getting it out w/o removing the brake lines. Some wrote this could be done.
I have taken many Moto Guzzi ECU'a apart to fix similar problems.
I'm thinking battery too because when I went to drive it yesterday it started in limp mode with ASC and TRAC displayed. I tried restarting it after waiting about 30 seconds and got the same running in limp mode. I have seen BMW motorcycle do this with their ABS system because the battery was week or even just the wrong type, wet cell instead of glass mat.
If I do end up going after the PC board I'll try getting it out w/o removing the brake lines. Some wrote this could be done.
I have taken many Moto Guzzi ECU'a apart to fix similar problems.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 830
Likes: 141
From: Daytona, USA
I had nearly the same problem yesterday. Started car after it sitting 2-3 weeks and got the ABS/Traction warning with the amber light. Multiple on and offs with the ignition key didn't help. When I got home, did the hard reset with the battery cables and voila! problem gone. Put the car back on the old Battery Tender for a fill-up.
MIke
MIke
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192
Likes: 22
From: Kansas City, MO
I looked at the dealer service records from the pervious owner and found the same three warnings were written up on the work order and the fix was a new battery in 2007. I have one waiting for me at Battery's Plus on the trickle charger. I'll pick it up on the way home and try to get it in tonight. I'll let you all know how it goes.
One other thing is for the past 4 or 5 months it seems to take longer cranking before it fires. I hope this fixes that also.
One other thing is for the past 4 or 5 months it seems to take longer cranking before it fires. I hope this fixes that also.
Last edited by guzzi svt; Jul 14, 2010 at 04:36 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192
Likes: 22
From: Kansas City, MO
I replaced the battery last night and started the car. No ASC or TRAC warning and it was running OK but the Check Engine light was still on. I cycled the windows hoping that would take care of them working correctly but they are not reclosing after the doors are opened (I'll look for this fix next). The car was at a fast idle making shifting and throttle control a bit rough and abrupt. I drove about 25 miles and shut it off. When I came out from dinner and turned on the key the system check ran and came back with the three problems again. I tried one more time with the same results. There was an Advance Auto down the street I was going to take it to have the faults read and cleared so I limped down there and had it done. Fault code 0121 (a TPS error) came up. I cleared the error and started the car. Everything was perfect except the windows. I'll take it on some short test around my home to make sure it's fixed.
One more thing I'm going to check is the positive battery cable that come of the battery and seems to go to a power block in the trunk. I was moving the cable to align it with the battery terminal cover and the other end seemed to move around like it was loose. I need to check to see if this is a bolted connection or just passing through a grommet.
Any additional comments or ideas would be appreciated.
One more thing I'm going to check is the positive battery cable that come of the battery and seems to go to a power block in the trunk. I was moving the cable to align it with the battery terminal cover and the other end seemed to move around like it was loose. I need to check to see if this is a bolted connection or just passing through a grommet.
Any additional comments or ideas would be appreciated.
Last edited by guzzi svt; Jul 15, 2010 at 07:51 AM.
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,114
Likes: 1,272
From: North Carolina
In regards to the windows, I know you said you cycled them, but did you do the thing where you hold the button until it clicks? All you do is hold the "down" button until the window stops, then continue to hold it until you hear a click. It only takes a second or two. Then do the same thing going up.
I've had my battery disconnected several times and that always fixes the window problem that shows up when I reconnect the battery. You just have to hold the button until you hear the click
I've had my battery disconnected several times and that always fixes the window problem that shows up when I reconnect the battery. You just have to hold the button until you hear the click
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 422
Likes: 79
From: Phoenix, AZ
I did mine
I have replaced my ABS module without disconnecting pipework. Its not easy but as long as you also undo the bolts securing the mounting bracket you can get the module off with some careful wiggling. Took me ages the first time as it only gives you barely enough space to do it.
I also got a check engine light as a result but you can just ignore it; it goes away on its own after a few days of trouble-free motoring.
PS> I have had a "limp home mode" before just because of dirty/faulty wheel sensors (I think).
I also got a check engine light as a result but you can just ignore it; it goes away on its own after a few days of trouble-free motoring.
PS> I have had a "limp home mode" before just because of dirty/faulty wheel sensors (I think).
Last edited by JustNiz; Jul 15, 2010 at 08:20 PM.
Veteran member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,344
Likes: 1,163
From: Oak Ridge, TN
Originally Posted by guzzi svt
I put a new battery into the car trying to fix the dreaded trio (ASC, TRAC, Limp Mode) with very mixed results, it ran w/o warnings but the check engine light was on and it fast idled, went to restart the car and the three warnings were back, limped over to Advanced Auto to have the error codes cleared, cleared error code (P0121) and the car ran perfect, went to start the car the next morning and when ignition was placed in the on position and the System Check was done all three error came back. So I'm getting all three warning when the car goes though it's system check when the key is turned to the on position. This tells me that all three are not getting the power (quantity or quality) they require. Sense this all happened and happens at the same time it makes me wonder about the wiring and relays that feed them power. I looked over the wiring diagrams and found that the Ignition Bus Relay in the Engine Compartment Fuse Box feeds power to the ABS Unit and the ECU (pin EM82-09). This is one of four power supplies to the ECU (the ECU of coarse feeds the Throttle Assembly/Throttle Motor power). Of coarse I'm not sure what the power sources do inside either of these units but they do have this relay in common.
One check will be to run power directly from the battery to the power side of the relay or check for voltage drop across the relay power pins.
The battery power at this fuse box also provides the main power supply to the ABS Unit. Again a direct power source or voltage drop check at this bus.
I'm I chasing my tail here or do you think all this problems are power related?
Both the Ignition Power Bus and the Battery Power Bus in the Engine Compartment Fuse Box also supply power to the Adaptive Speed Control Module. What does this unit do?
Thanks!
One check will be to run power directly from the battery to the power side of the relay or check for voltage drop across the relay power pins.
The battery power at this fuse box also provides the main power supply to the ABS Unit. Again a direct power source or voltage drop check at this bus.
I'm I chasing my tail here or do you think all this problems are power related?
Both the Ignition Power Bus and the Battery Power Bus in the Engine Compartment Fuse Box also supply power to the Adaptive Speed Control Module. What does this unit do?
Thanks!
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 422
Likes: 79
From: Phoenix, AZ
Honestly it doesn't sound power related to me, especially if a new battery didn't fix it. I'll guess that its probably a bad wheel sensor or the ABS module. They are both a known point of failure.
>> One check will be to run power directly from the battery to the power side of the relay
Ouch. What are you trying to check by doing this? If the relay has a bad contact, you can figure that out much more 'safely' with a multimeter. Be REALLY careful that you definitely know exactly what you're doing when artificially rewiring your car. Jags are complex beasts. If you blow one or more system modules that could be a VERY expensive mistake.
If it was me I'd ask a Jag dealer to figure out whats up. Even you pay them a hour or so to find out what the problem is, you still don't have to go with them to actually fix it.
>> One check will be to run power directly from the battery to the power side of the relay
Ouch. What are you trying to check by doing this? If the relay has a bad contact, you can figure that out much more 'safely' with a multimeter. Be REALLY careful that you definitely know exactly what you're doing when artificially rewiring your car. Jags are complex beasts. If you blow one or more system modules that could be a VERY expensive mistake.
If it was me I'd ask a Jag dealer to figure out whats up. Even you pay them a hour or so to find out what the problem is, you still don't have to go with them to actually fix it.
Last edited by JustNiz; Jul 17, 2010 at 08:33 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192
Likes: 22
From: Kansas City, MO
OK, I'll move away from questioning power to the TB and ABS units, but since this thing goes in to limp mode and displays ASC, TRAC and P0121 error code (TPS) all by just turning on the key and going though the System Check it could really check the sensors except for continutity. I could see sensor or ABS pump power if I just got warning, but limp mode! Seem a bit much. Someone said they had unplugged the ABS unit and drove the car while it was getting rebuilt, is this possible? If so I could just disconnect the ABS unit to see if I could get past the limp mode.
Here is something I found while putting in my three symptom into Google.
Any thoughts to this one?
I was planning to start buying sensors, harnesses, module etc., but decided to unplug TPS plug on driver side of TB. It was late so I pulled it about 1/8 and decided to push it back on and deal with it later. When I turned ignition on next a.m., all problems disappeared. The degeneration of the tin to gold plug reported in the TSB on the appears to have been the cause. It makes sense when you think about how Trac control works....physical movement of car throws off degenerating prongs on plug. No problems on several drives...I will pick up gold to gold repair kit fm Jag ($14.50). Traction control is part of ABS anti-skid set-up. When I pushed plug on connection probably improved enough to cure problems....TPS sensor syncs braking with throttle to prevent skids and control traction. If you don't start here you could waste lots of money and wind up hating the car.....
Here is something I found while putting in my three symptom into Google.
Any thoughts to this one?
I was planning to start buying sensors, harnesses, module etc., but decided to unplug TPS plug on driver side of TB. It was late so I pulled it about 1/8 and decided to push it back on and deal with it later. When I turned ignition on next a.m., all problems disappeared. The degeneration of the tin to gold plug reported in the TSB on the appears to have been the cause. It makes sense when you think about how Trac control works....physical movement of car throws off degenerating prongs on plug. No problems on several drives...I will pick up gold to gold repair kit fm Jag ($14.50). Traction control is part of ABS anti-skid set-up. When I pushed plug on connection probably improved enough to cure problems....TPS sensor syncs braking with throttle to prevent skids and control traction. If you don't start here you could waste lots of money and wind up hating the car.....
Last edited by guzzi svt; Jul 19, 2010 at 04:24 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192
Likes: 22
From: Kansas City, MO
We I finally had more than five minutes to replace the battery to work on the Jag. 100% of my time has been spent remodeling the kitchen and a two week Southwest trip. Here what I found. The new battery, even after being on the charger for 2 day still shows it needs a charge. I'm taking it back to Battery's Plus to let them charge it and make sure it's a good battery. I put a full charge on my 3 year old battery and while putting it back in noticed the negative battery clap looked a little corroded. After cleaning it and clearing the error codes every thing seems to be fine. I took it to Advanced Auto and had the charging system check just to make sure, it checked 100%. I haven't tried to operate the TRAC or ASC yet. I wanted to enjoy driving it for a while first.
Veteran Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,430
Likes: 571
From: Los Angeles
This morning got the amber ABS and DSC warnings when I first started the car. I turned the car off and restarted and the warnings were gone. I am pretty convinced that most of the weird electrical gremlins with these cars occur after the car has not been driven for a few days (I had not used the car over the weekend).
Doug
Doug
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 192
Likes: 22
From: Kansas City, MO
Try again
My battery fix come to fine out was only temporary. Come to fine out I can get the System to not show ASC/TRAC warning and not go into limp mode if I disconnect the battery for a short amount of time and then reconnect it. I then have to clear any error codes to get the check engine light to go off, and I'm ready to go at least for the evening. Come morning when I turn the key on and the system check runs again I'm back to ground zero with the two warnings and limp mode.
I'm going to clean the TPS connector next, $120 for gold connectors, I hold off on those unless cleaning fixes the problem. Then I might spend the money for a permanent fix.
I'm going to clean the TPS connector next, $120 for gold connectors, I hold off on those unless cleaning fixes the problem. Then I might spend the money for a permanent fix.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 178
Likes: 21
From: Austin
I have replaced my ABS module without disconnecting pipework. Its not easy but as long as you also undo the bolts securing the mounting bracket you can get the module off with some careful wiggling. Took me ages the first time as it only gives you barely enough space to do it.
I also got a check engine light as a result but you can just ignore it; it goes away on its own after a few days of trouble-free motoring.
PS> I have had a "limp home mode" before just because of dirty/faulty wheel sensors (I think).
I also got a check engine light as a result but you can just ignore it; it goes away on its own after a few days of trouble-free motoring.
PS> I have had a "limp home mode" before just because of dirty/faulty wheel sensors (I think).
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 754
Likes: 71
From: San Antonio, TX
Bloody hell! Is it any wonder the second hand value of these cars is so low? Who else would tolerate these electrical gremlins?
Get the manual and check all the ground points on the car. This has worked for me.
They are beautiful though!
Get the manual and check all the ground points on the car. This has worked for me.
They are beautiful though!