yep just like most parts on the car and like a light bulb, you never know when the very next time will result in a light bulb burning out and no warning either..

 

Another quick follow-up question as to how one would further narrow down the cause of the problem to the pump/motor or something else. It seems to me that if I hooked a voltmeter or ohmeter to the disconnected black/white wire pair at the end that leads to the motor, that should tell me something. My forte is not electronics but I believe you can use one of these types of meters to show if there is a short (I think reading resistance and seeing if it is zero or infinite should be the answer but, again, not an electronics wizard).

Doug

 

It's a little more complicated than that. A motor is really just some coils of wire. If you read the resistance through the motor it's going to read very close to zero. The only thing your meter will see is the resistance of the wire itself, which is very low. But as soon as the motor starts to spin, the magnetic fields start crossing each other and swirling around and stuff, and that induces resistance into the circuit.

The fact that disconnecting the motor stopped the fuse from blowing pretty much narrows down the fault to the motor. Unless there is something in series with the motor and further down the circuit, the motor has to be the problem. You could set the meter to the DC volts setting and see if you have voltage at the end of the wires. Other than that, there's not much to check with the meter.

 

I guess it does not make any sense for me to do any of this diagnostic work but I was trying to determine what methods the dealer will use to determine the problem. Or perhaps they will take the easier route and just go ahead and assume I need a new motor/pump assembly if nothing else is obviously wrong.

Doug

 

The good reverend is correct, the resistance of the motor will be quite low.

A 12v motor with a resistance of 1.2 ohms would draw 10A, .6 ohms would draw 20A,
.3 ohms would draw 40A.

If you have a good , accurate meter (FLUKE) you can check the resistance.

Also check the resistance from each wire to ground.

I would check the resistance on mine, but my car is at the dealer in Austin
getting a new steering column. (Extra Mile)

There could also be a bind in the pump or motor (bearings?) causing excessive starting current.

 

Well I dropped the car off at the dealer this afternoon (Monday). It should be interesting to see what they come up with. Oh yeah, I removed the LSI relief valve and returned the pump to "stock"--just in case.

Doug

 

Let us know what they say. If you can get the old pump I would like to get my hands on it to see about a cause and fix.

 

The service rep just called to say it looks like they are tracking the problem back to the pump. I wonder if it really took 8+ hours for them to determine this or if (probably) once a tech spent 10 minutes with the car they concluded it must be the pump.

They suspect that the part will not be locally available so they will probably need to have it shipped from somewhere. I just wish they could have come to this conclusion quicker as today was basically wasted. I certainly hope that the relief valve had nothing to do with the demise of the motor (I do not see how it could have).

It is unlikely that they will give me the old pump since this will probably be covered under warranty and they will probably need to send the defective part to Jaguar.

Doug

 

Just remember that you are paying for the troubleshooting by the hour. I would challenge it! As for the pump if you ask all they can say is no! With a little luck you might get it. As for the valve I would find it hard to believe that it was the cause. If anything it should prevent/reduce any head pressure from the system as it was designed to do. It is a bypass, if anything all it would do is return it back to the normal pressure of the system @ 1600psi and they cannot complain about that.

 

I had removed the valve so they were totally unaware of it having been there. I did this to avoid any possible problems with this being covered under warranty. They have not argues thus far about this being a covered warranty item so I cannot really complain that they are charging me too much for their time (since they will not be charging me).

My biggest complaint with this dealer (the only one that is really local to me) is that this is now they are 3-for-3 in terms of not being able to get the car back in my hands in a timely manner. This seems to be a chronic problem with dealerships as I had the same problems when servicing my Corvette at the dealer and, before that, when I would service my BMW at the dealer. Dealerships just do not seem to operate in a very efficient manner when it comes to their service department.

Doug

 

The way I see it is that they will do all they can for you but the person that purchased a car from them will always get pushed to the top of the list. The loyal customer from the outside is not as important.

 

The service rep just called to say that they are trying to obtain a replacement pump but that, so far, this is not readily available. I assume these must still be available somewhere!?!?! He will try some other sources tomorrow but the worst scenario would be that they send the pump out somewhere for repair. I believe the part number is HJC8241AA. Are any of you guys out there employed by Jaguar dealerships or parts departments who might have this part readily available?

I asked if they could remove the existing pump and let me pick up the car in the meantime since obtaining the part will likely be a matter of days and not hours.

Doug

 

8 hours? for what I diag it on the internet without seeing it all they trying to pull your leg? Of all the pumps that Ive replaced, as we discussed. if blowing a fuse you disconnect the pump. If it still blows you have a circuit issue. if not( Ive never had anything but the pump, then its the pump and you replace it. Yes the pump arent that readily avail since they dont fail often. But they can do a dealer locate or I think the one I did a couple months ago came from the UK.
As for a timly matter, I useally have 10-20 cars in my screen at any giving time. waiting on parts, diag time, approvals etc... and work as fast as possible. And that doesnt include the waiters that come in for oil changes that then needs brakes, tires, alignments, coolant leaks etc...that then throw my day out of wack....And today I went to put to air springs in an XJ, had them on the floor since we had 3 in stock............hmm but only 1 on the shelf!!!!&%$#$ I then had to get one hot shotted over from another dealer to finish so I could go on vacation....theres always something to slow you down...especially questions on the forums....

 

Well the dealer is still searching for a replacement motor/pump although I talked with someone at Motorcars Ltd in Houston who says he can have one of these in a day--the cost is $2,100.

So these are available and perhaps the dealer is searching out a cheaper source. Buy the disconcerting news is that the guy at Motorcars said he has sold about 9 of these over the past year and that it is apparently not such a rare occurrence for this part to fail.

Just when I thought the hoses were the going to be the main issue it turns out the motor/pump is also a pretty significant issue.

Doug

 

Blasphemy!! (says a hail mary, forms a cross with my forefingers, throws some holy water on the computer screen...all at the same time)

whew, that was close

 

So are you saying the pump/motor failure is a very rare occurrence? I barely got into explaining to the guy at Motorcars Ltd about needing this piece when it was quite clear to me that he had a lot of experience ordering these and tracking them down. So when I asked whether or not this was unusual he responded by saying he gets pretty frequent requests for these.

Doug

 

Nothing really to update yet as the last communication with the service rep at the dealer was on July 30 when he let me know they were still searching out the part. I cannot believe it is taking this long to get an answer. I am half ready to call the Jaguar Customer Service 800 folks in New Jersey to see if they can get things moving but I am not sure if this will p*ss of the local dealer.

Doug

 

Can't you drive the car until they find the part? Or, are you already doing that?

 

Doug
Do you know if it is the motor or the pump that has failed.
In view of the prices you have been quoted, I would investigate the possibility of getting it rebuilt somewhere. Or possibly any 12vdc hydraulic pump that will fit. (size) The slide-outs on most new 5th wheels and motor homes are hydraulic with a small 12v pump.

When I was going to school in MT (Bozeman) my 120 master Cyl. was sleeved in SS and the brake flex lines were rebuilt using the original fittings by an Allis Chalmers shop in Highwood, Mt. All still working 50 years later.

 

I had picked up the car a few weeks ago after they had it for the better part of a week just sitting there. But still I eventually want to be able to use the top. The "plan" was that as soon as they get the part, I could come in and they will install it (I expect they would need the car for a day).

I am not being asked to pay anything as this is covered under the Select Edition Warranty so that is a good thing. But it would be nice if someone got off the dime and tracked down the part. Again, the guy at Motorcars Ltd. thought that he could get on in a matter of days but he warned me that the dealer would likely prefer to keep their searching internal with the Jaguar Dealer Network.

EDIT--just found out they special ordered the part and will have it in August 16--hooray!


Doug