Convertible Top Hydraulic Fluid Replacement....
#21
02-25-2012, 01:07 PM
Veteran Member
Doug,
I have to admit that the threat of a bursting hose in your windshield header is horrible. The only other car that I know of being notorious for that is the Bentley Azure, of all cars... As I said, we are working on almost 20 different brands now, and for the vast majority of convertibles the main problem is that all cylinders will eventually leak. You may regard that as the cost of owning a fancy convertible. Aside from the hose problem, it is normally good to move the top from time to time.
As far as improvements in newer models go, it is amazing to me that the cylinder manufacturers are still using the same old seal material that decays way too fast. On the upside, hoses are generally not much of a problem. With that in mind, preventative cylinder upgrades can keep those tops working flawlessly for decades. In an average late-model convertible, the life expectancy of the OEM cylinders is just over ten years, which is not much different from XK8s/XKRs... Our replacement seals last a lot longer.
On a personal note, it gives me much joy to know that the system in my Mercedes SLs with about a dozen hydraulic cylinders (soft top version and hard top version alike) will work flawlessly when I push that convertible top button several times daily from Spring to Fall. That is what you should be able to expect!
-Klaus
I have to admit that the threat of a bursting hose in your windshield header is horrible. The only other car that I know of being notorious for that is the Bentley Azure, of all cars... As I said, we are working on almost 20 different brands now, and for the vast majority of convertibles the main problem is that all cylinders will eventually leak. You may regard that as the cost of owning a fancy convertible. Aside from the hose problem, it is normally good to move the top from time to time.
As far as improvements in newer models go, it is amazing to me that the cylinder manufacturers are still using the same old seal material that decays way too fast. On the upside, hoses are generally not much of a problem. With that in mind, preventative cylinder upgrades can keep those tops working flawlessly for decades. In an average late-model convertible, the life expectancy of the OEM cylinders is just over ten years, which is not much different from XK8s/XKRs... Our replacement seals last a lot longer.
On a personal note, it gives me much joy to know that the system in my Mercedes SLs with about a dozen hydraulic cylinders (soft top version and hard top version alike) will work flawlessly when I push that convertible top button several times daily from Spring to Fall. That is what you should be able to expect!
-Klaus
With my car I had the double whammy. Shortly after buying it from the previous owner I had the hose leak at the latch. This was in 2008 and the replacement ended up being picked up by the Jaguar warranty that was still on the car. I also added the LSI pressure reducing valve that was developed by efforts of 2 of the other members here (Gus and Walt). The top worked fine but then in 2010 the pump suddenly died. That was replaced and, again, covered under warranty. Both of these repairs would have cost me at total of more than $4,000!
So the new pump has been in for a while now (with the LSI pressure reduction valve installed) but I am still freaked to use the top much, even though it is probably better to routinely open and close the top. Makes me regret not looking around for a coupe instead of the convertible!
Doug
#22
02-25-2012, 01:24 PM
Veteran Member
Doug,
We drop the top all the time. I replaced my hoses many years ago and that was the beginning of my investigation and then installed the valve many months (a year or 2 ?) after replacing the hose. My valve was the second installed and I am still dropping the top. The hose was the Jaguar replacement hose and not the replacement hose on my page. Doug, drop the top and enjoy the car.
We drop the top all the time. I replaced my hoses many years ago and that was the beginning of my investigation and then installed the valve many months (a year or 2 ?) after replacing the hose. My valve was the second installed and I am still dropping the top. The hose was the Jaguar replacement hose and not the replacement hose on my page. Doug, drop the top and enjoy the car.
#23
02-25-2012, 01:40 PM
Doug,
The Jaguar service managers I have spoken with at three different dealerships here in North Carolina all told me that by the 2007-and-newer XK convertible, the dreaded hose leak issue was a thing of the past. The 2007 model used a different design and better hoses. They all say that thus far they have not had to replace any hoses in the 2007-and-newer models....
Nothing was said about the cylinders but at the time of those conversations, I was focused on the hoses and still too ignorant about the cylinders. Klaus points out that the factory parts all have an end-of-life expectation of perhaps a decade, though. Extreme heat (and perhaps extreme cold) seems to shorten that span based upon what I've read during the past couple of weeks....
The Jaguar service managers I have spoken with at three different dealerships here in North Carolina all told me that by the 2007-and-newer XK convertible, the dreaded hose leak issue was a thing of the past. The 2007 model used a different design and better hoses. They all say that thus far they have not had to replace any hoses in the 2007-and-newer models....
Nothing was said about the cylinders but at the time of those conversations, I was focused on the hoses and still too ignorant about the cylinders. Klaus points out that the factory parts all have an end-of-life expectation of perhaps a decade, though. Extreme heat (and perhaps extreme cold) seems to shorten that span based upon what I've read during the past couple of weeks....
#24
02-25-2012, 01:52 PM
Veteran Member
Doug,
We drop the top all the time. I replaced my hoses many years ago and that was the beginning of my investigation and then installed the valve many months (a year or 2 ?) after replacing the hose. My valve was the second installed and I am still dropping the top. The hose was the Jaguar replacement hose and not the replacement hose on my page. Doug, drop the top and enjoy the car.
We drop the top all the time. I replaced my hoses many years ago and that was the beginning of my investigation and then installed the valve many months (a year or 2 ?) after replacing the hose. My valve was the second installed and I am still dropping the top. The hose was the Jaguar replacement hose and not the replacement hose on my page. Doug, drop the top and enjoy the car.
Yeah--I've got to suck it up and be a man and drop the damn top already (is this too much information??!?). For one thing I need to install the wind deflector I recently bought from another member.
Doug
#25
02-25-2012, 07:02 PM
Veteran Member
Hey--finally put the top down today. I went down flawlessly and smoothly (phew!).
Also got the brackets installed for the wind deflector. It is the one sold by Welsh. Of course I had to run to Pep Boys to get a T50 torx socket to take off the seat belt screw but from there on it was pretty evident on how to install the brackets that attach to the car. I need to do the final adjustment on the brackets that attached to the deflector.
Doug
Also got the brackets installed for the wind deflector. It is the one sold by Welsh. Of course I had to run to Pep Boys to get a T50 torx socket to take off the seat belt screw but from there on it was pretty evident on how to install the brackets that attach to the car. I need to do the final adjustment on the brackets that attached to the deflector.
Doug
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Gus (02-25-2012)
#26
02-27-2012, 12:12 PM
Veteran Member
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Jon89 (02-27-2012)
#27
03-01-2012, 02:18 PM
#28
03-01-2012, 02:49 PM
Veteran Member
I installed one and we like it this is a link to it JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
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apexjag (03-02-2012)
#29
03-01-2012, 02:52 PM
Veteran Member
Scott,
I think I posted my wind deflector install opinion on another thread (I think there is a couple of other wind deflector threads). I have concluded that there are a few different types of deflectors available--OEM (maybe even more than one) as well as aftermarket.
The install on mine was pretty straightforward but the deflector does not really naturally sit vertically--it actually slopes back a bit. I called Welsh (the aftermarket company where it came from) and they seem to think I did something wrong but I am certain I installed correctly. There is really only one way to install the brackets that attach to the car and I guess there are a couple of ways to play around with the brackets that install to the deflector. Still there is really no mechanism to keep it exactly vertical except to tighten the heck out of the bolts which would then make the deflector difficult to tilt down and out of the way.
In terms of effectiveness, believe it or not, I have not really driven the car around with the top down since installing the deflector since it suddenly got cold right after my installation. However the weather is getting nicer again and I will report what I find.
Doug
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apexjag (03-02-2012)
#30
03-02-2012, 02:44 PM
#31
03-02-2012, 02:56 PM
Veteran Member
When the pump whines is the roof operating and at what time does it whine?
Hey SeismicGuy; You say in 2010, your pump died......How did you know,what was the pump doing, that you knew that?.....I'm having a problem with mine, and not sure if the pump needs replacing. There's no loss of green fluid. Pump whines, and I have to assist it, in it's work
#32
03-03-2012, 05:05 PM
Gus; The top was whineing when it was closing at about 1/3rd of the way up, and I had to help it get past that sticking point. Now this last time it also whined at thebeginning of the down cycle(the unlatching), and at the closing point again. The top had been working fine for about 3 months after the Valve install, before this began. With no leaks, I'm thinking maybe the pump is bad.....Could the Valve be reducing the pressure too much, or could I have done something wrong, installing the Valve?
#33
03-03-2012, 05:18 PM
Veteran Member
#34
06-24-2012, 09:41 PM
#35
06-24-2012, 09:49 PM
Veteran Member
This is for the fluid JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource I personally am not in favor of substations that pump is around $1600 and that is without labor.
#36
11-03-2013, 09:24 PM
Senior Member
#37
11-03-2013, 09:48 PM
Veteran Member
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MFoncerrada8 (11-04-2013)
#38
11-04-2013, 07:18 AM
Veteran Member
I would siphon the fluid out install new operate the roof then siphon and refill again. Operating the roof will push the old fluid to the new allowing you to replace most of it. This system is a push/push and is a little difficult to get all the fluid out at one time. Remember you do not want to disturb the hoses any more than necessary.
See if this procedure helps. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
See if this procedure helps. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
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MFoncerrada8 (11-04-2013)
#39
11-04-2013, 12:58 PM
Senior Member
I would siphon the fluid out install new operate the roof then siphon and refill again. Operating the roof will push the old fluid to the new allowing you to replace most of it. This system is a push/push and is a little difficult to get all the fluid out at one time. Remember you do not want to disturb the hoses any more than necessary.
See if this procedure helps. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
See if this procedure helps. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
In any case, I expect to follow your recommendation and use jagrepair method. Tnx
This is such an friendly forum that I feel comfortable asking this question (something that could start a negative thread in other less mature car forums). I have read the opinions on the statement above and the general consensus is to use Pentosin. The basic reason seems to be that it is what was recommended by OEM. I respect the reasoning, but do not take OEM recommendation as 100% gospel - I would say 98% + they recommend the best solution but do sometimes make mistakes (won't point out the obvious design mistakes related to the topic in this thread). A year and a half after the recommendation, has anyone tried that fluid (FeBi 02615)? Your opinions would be appreciated - especially any that support using Pentosin for reasons other then "OEM recommends" - just trying to gather more info in the spirit of Jagrepairs statement "...your research and do not stop until you are satisfied"
Last edited by MFoncerrada8; 11-04-2013 at 01:00 PM. Reason: informative
#40
11-04-2013, 04:08 PM
Veteran Member