Do we as owners of modern automobiles expext too much?


The modern automobile seems to be much more resilient and more reliable than it's predecessors from any decade of the last century.


When I was growing up I can remember many instances of my parents car's not starting in cold weather (choke, carburetor, spark plugs, rotor, distributor cap, etc.) issues. I recall as a youngster getting a flat tire at least 3 or 4 times a year. I recall seeing a car fire at least 2 or 3 times a year on the roadways in the summer. Braking systems were much more inferior, and exhaust systems seemed to need a change-out every couple of years. When was the last time spark plugs came up as a concern?


Modern cars are without a doubt technically superior, and as such much more complex. However along with this they also have come to be much more reliable.


Is it simply a case that most of us have now come to expect 200,000+ miles (300,000+ km) of driving, with only minor maintenance, out of every car on the road?


I know most XK's have probably not gotten to the 200K mile mark yet, but many must be near or over 100K miles.


How many miles do you expect to get from your XK before it gets parted-out or goes to the scrapyard?

 

Well I think cars are getting too much crap put in them to warrant the prices now being asked. I have a 1974 Olds 88 coonvert and I love it, so simple, so easy to work on. Easy to drive.

 

As in "bells & whistles" or as in poorly designed/constructed/engineered parts/pieces?

 

Both really.

I am a software engineer in my twenties. I don't like touch screens or fancy mmi systems in cars. I like buttons and knobs, even a bunch of them everywhere over that nonsense. I prefer simple and predictable over fancy and complicated.

I work to design interfaces that work quickly, simply, and intuitively. Intuitive to me means that if you took a guess how to use it, you'd be right. Make things work how they're expected to work. If you can't produce a dead simple interface that's as snappy as a button, don't do it. I also bet buttons are cheaper...

I also hate that more and more that cars are designed and engineer by people who make some jobs needlessly complicated. Make some of these guys work on their designs and they may have a change of heart. This adds to cost of ownership.

My a8 is complicated to operate, very expensive for parts, annoying to work on and sometimes components seem like they could have tried harder. That said it's amazing to drive for what it is. I think the next owner will be thrilled! I just wasn't happy with the compromise it was in what I mentioned.

 

Like all current devises they are designed to enhance the user experance and overly complicated.

Time will not roll back and technology will continue to be the law of the land.

With though to answer the OP's comment, YES, generally speaking car are more dependable. 80K use to be old now you don't even change spark plugs until 100K.

If only other industries would learn the same lesson as the auto industries and quick making appliances that break in three years.

 

All cars continue to be more reliable and that is a good thing. They are also becoming more complex.

I had to drive my daughters BMW for several days and the simplest tasks were very complicated. Changing the radio station or adjusting the A/C required an engineering degree. When I gave back the car and asked her about one control, she told me she had never found it, so its not just a case of my lack of technology.

Push buttons, knobs, toggle switches and sliders worked well for decades. I believe all we are adding now is cost and complexity.

BTW my blue cat has 133K+ miles on her and is my daily driver. Doubt I would have gotten that many in the E-Type. But I would trade if anyone with a running E-Type is interested in a straight-up swap.

 

These really aren't modern cars at all. The next generation can be classified as modern, but all of our cars were made at the beginning of OBDII. They have limited computer capabilities. Many of our components are from the generations prior. Our ABS systems were created in the mid 80s, and other manufacturers have been using our transmissions for at least 5 years before we started getting them. Even the shift controls are over engineered and destined for failure. To top it all off, Jaguar insists that fluids made by companies, other than Jaguar are the only fluids to use, when great strides have been made in the chemical make up of oils and coolants, since our cars were made.

The XK8 is a transitional car, and that is why this forum is so popular. If you see a way to cool your transmission fluid, some other way, before your transmission is ruined, by the mixture of coolant into the trans cooler, do it. If you find ways of further sealing electrical components, do it. There are so many things you can do to improve your car before bad things happen to you. It is crazy to wait for the problems you read about here happen to you. Change hoses before you need to on the side of the road. Change all your fluids, including the rear end. These are very good cars, but they definitely are not modern. The early cars, which aren't much different than the last car sold are 20 years old.

Do the preventive maintenance, and you will be much happier with your investment, and others will start paying more for them, because the bugs have been worked out. The XKE and XJS were piles of crap, until people recognized the weaknesses in them, and made them reliable.....

Some day in the next 5 to 10 years our cars will be selling for much more, because of a few intrepid souls, who know what the problems are, and find a way to correct them. This is the time it will happen, because Jaguar doesn't make parts for cars over 10 years old......Just my 2 cents......Mike

 

IT is funny . me and the other mechnics had a talk about this at lunch last week. i have worked in shops for 40 yrs .the cars that we grew up with got tired before 80 th .like jandreu said over 150 is what we think is the norm now .i admit they are gitting harder to wok on and mutch more costley when things go wrong . i think if the people dising them had to work on them for 5to 10 yrs before they got to the disin studio it might not be that way and you would not see the amount of recals on all the cars we see now . as for progress i say i am still driving what was 100yrs ago . rubber tires;water cooled;gas engine. we just get heat .ac;and a raido now .

 

If that is the mission ... it was a miserable failure.

 

At least those 50 year old muscle cars, for all their faults, are still running. When a part fails almost everything can be made on a lathe, or in a vice, in private garage by a skilled person. On top of that there is an almost unending supply of aftermarket mechanical parts to satisfy the demand.

How many of our computer controlled 'modern' car will be running in 50 years?
If a computer goes belly up, then it's over. The only replacement for a computer is another computer, and when OEM supply is exhausted, then we go to the junk yard, and when that supply is exhausted then our 'modern' car is a piece of static junk.

Where is the aftermarket for ECM's and the near unending list of supplementary control modules, all different for each manufacturer, each car, each model, each year, to keep our car running?
In 50 years those muscle cars will still be running, will any of our classic XK's be doing the same?
Regards,

 

Sadly the older cars were poisoning people and wasting large amounts of fuel as well as having quite poor brakes and safety systems. Oh, and as people have posted not lasting very long, not being very reliable, etc.

The modern complicated meant to be user interface stuff (but actually unintuitive nonsense) is daft, though. Auto makers know about as much as Mickeysoft.

 

You can buy off the shelf engine management systems right now that will run the V8s in our cars. You might not be able to make one on a lathe in your shed, but that doesn't mean no one else can.

Aftermarket window controls, alarm systems, traction controls can all be bought off the shelf and they use electronics that are cheaper and more powerful than the 20th century stuff that the cars came with. I don't have a lathe, but I do have a computer and I know I could replace some of the electronics if I had to and I am just a hobbyist.

You should be more worried that your gas guzzler is going to be legislated off the road, rather than that electronic engineers are going to forget how to put a circuit together.

 

Remember that those 50 year old muscle cars are not driven as daily drivers.

I used to do engine overhauls on cars with only 70,000 miles on them. Mechanics didn't live as long working on that crap either.

Have you actually seen what held the bodies of of those cars together. It's a wonder the traffic accident death rate wasn't higher. Many steering wheels didn't even compress, or bend, and went through the drivers. The bodies and frames crumpled, and came apart, and used to kill the occupants, just coming into the passenger compartment, including the engine.

They also used to rust away before you were finished paying for them. How many cars under 3 years old do you see rusted today?

In 95 we had a woman who tried to commit suicide in her Jetta. The car died, when there was not enough oxygen in the garage to continue combustion, and she woke up with a headache, when her husband came home.

An old car would have had the job done in half an hour, and the coroner wouldn't have gone in the garage, until their was enough breathable air in it. The good old days weren't that good......Mike

 

There are not THAT many older cars out there anymore making a ton poisoning people, come on. Hell look at VW, new cars and the crap they pulled to pass emissions. Other cars not shutting off, keys falling out (GM), timing chain BS (jag and others), tire issues (FORD EXPLORER) Sure I like to get into my newer car, fired up, nice, warm right away, bla bla. But time to time it is also nice to get in my 74 Olds and it fires up, drives great good brakes short of no ABS. No computers to worry about, no moduals on this or that to break.
Lets not forget years ago all of the cars did just fine with out all the modern stuff.

 

Not quite what I remember from back then, but let's pretend that those were the good old days.

 

I got over the nostalgia for muscle cars from my youth when my daughter got a 69 chevelle. That brought back memories of my wife's 69 Buick and how the gas tank and the rear windshield rusted out, how it slid sideways going over a bump, how it would overheat, etc. Then my son bought one to restomod, still had driving issues when he sold it. Now he has 67 Camaro project car in my garage. I won't even drive it, it is so loosey goosey compared to current cars.

How many shims does it take to align body parts on those muscle cars?

Our 92 Volvo wagon has over 300k miles and still going strong with third owner.
I had 236k miles on my 92 Porsche when it was totalled. It looked barely used

To answer the OP, yes based upon my Volvos and Porsches, I expect my cars to last at least 300k miles.

 

Just to add a little fuel to the fire, I note this years winner of Le Mans was a Porshe, but once again it didn't go as fast nor cover the same distance as the Porshe that won in 1971.
The 917 set an overall speed and distance record in 1971 that was not broken until 2010.
Yes I'm mindful of restrictions and track changes but a racing record that stands for nearly 40 years is remarkable.
1960's Yank Tanks might have been dangerous at speed, that was not true of all cars of that period. The E type Jag, introduced in 1961 had 4 wheel disc brakes, Independent suspension all round and a 150 mph top speed, with I might add only a 3.8 liter six.
Regards,

 

I have a 1993 Chevy 1500 V8 truck. It gets only about 2 MPG less then any made recent years. The truck is easier to work on, less gadgets to break.

 

HEY YOU KIDS! Get offa my lawn!

 

When I first started working on cars manufacturers(e.g.Austin) used to sell 40000m service kits - decoke and piston ring sets- and not every car made it that far. If a car from that era(the sixties) made it to 100000 miles it was an object of curiosity and wonder. Modern cars are much more reliable than of old IMHO. There's also far less maintenance. Materials are far more advanced than 50yrs ago and the production processes for them are much better controlled quality wise. Additionally oil technology is light years ahead of the sixties products. Computer controlled machinery which compensates for tool wear and temperature differences ensures each piece conforms to specification with almost no + or -. Like most I have rose tinted glasses for the good old days(I love my 1973 MGB) but appreciate the reliability of modern cars. The electronics go wrong and we don't like it because we can't see it ) Just my take on it.