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Okay, so I'm working through some issues on my newly acquired XK8. I've read through quite a few threads on this, but I'm stuck at trying to get the driver's door open.
The temps here have been very cold and I haven't been driving the car much. As of two days ago I attempted to lock the driver's door via the key (I only have one black headed key) and the door locks cycled about three times and finally locked. When I tried to unlock it with the key the door locks (both sides) cycle and then only the passenger door remains unlocked. The driver's door will not unlock at all. When I try the unlock on the fob the same thing happens...both door locks cycle three times and then only the passenger's unlocks.
I thought maybe a low battery, so I put it on the CTEK charger for half the day yesterday and still no luck. I drove the car to OReilly and had them test it. She said it was at 12 volts (which is way too low for the car) and it needed charged. She also mentioned the tester would say if the battery charge went down in the last 1/4 of its life, indicating a bad battery, but it did not, so she pressed that it indicated I needed a new alternator.
The battery is an OEM Jaguar battery that is just over three years old. I ran by Home Depot just to check the battery off the list and replaced it with an Exide Extreme L5/49, which is highly recommended in the x350 forum.
It made no difference, the driver's door will not unlock.
I will also mention, when tryng to lock and unlock the car, and the doors are cycling, the passenger interior door handle will visibly lock and unlock, and if pulled on any one of the unlock cycles, or after the system has stopped trying, I can pull the handle and open the door. The driver's interior door handle will not visibly lock and unlock. When I try to pull the interior or exterior driver's door handle it will make a sound in the door but will not open. When I place the car in drive the doors will lock, but when I place it in park they will not unlock until I pull on the passenger door handle (not sure if this is normal, I haven't owned the car long enough).
I'm assuming it is the door latch in the driver's door that has come disconnected, or the microswitch in the door, or possibly even the security module...? Ever since I bought the car I cannot arm the alarm with the fob. Pressing the lock button on the fob locks the car but results in the alarm sounding right after. I can, however, lock the car with the key and can hear a chirp when doing so. The trunk button, key, and fob button work fine. The front windows also work fine.
Also, I have tried a hard reset a couple of times and also swapped the 5 amp fuse in the passenger fascia fuse box that connects the driver and passenger door lock assemblies, with no change. The exterior door mirrors work fine.
The issue I have right now is I cannot even open the driver's door to diagnose the problem?? Any suggestions?
Last edited by chillyphilly; 01-20-2017 at 11:14 AM.
OK, let's break it down. As you already figured out, cycling is a sign of low battery, it happens more frequently in the cold too. You have 2 issues, probably related for sure, low battery and Deadlocked door.
There are 2 levels of locking on these cars. The first, normal, needs no explaination. The second, a higher level of security imobilizes the entire locking mechanism "DeadLock" so that it can not even be opened from the inside. Good for when they break a window for example.
SideBar: I've seen the list of things enabled from the factory, and the things that can be enabled on request $$$. As I recall, for North America at least, the Deadlock fell into the optional category. Maybe someone remembers better than I.
Now as I understand, Deadlock is commonly enabled in Europe. Folks have said that one can "deadlock" the door by pressing the Arm button 2 times. Doesn't work on mine. Ironcially if I forget my 1998 is armed and try to open the door handle, the door deadlocks and I get into a situation just like yours.
So how when and where deadlock is "supposed" to occur aside. Let's try to apply what I run into with deadlock to get yours open.
So this is a summary of what I do, I'm 100% sure it is peculiar to my car but see if anything helps. Let's assume I use the driver's door handle with alarm activated:
1) I hear the bolt slide home in the door.
2) If I try to open the car by the key, the passenger door will work, but not the driver's door.
3) I have gotten in the passenger side, and turned ignition on, then just worked the door handles = all OK.
4) This all doesn't happen often but it's a pain in the neck when it does. I'm trying to remember what sets off the alarm, a frequent occurence in this situation. Everything is reset by putting the ignition key in/ignition on to reset.
5) one can not possibly overpower the locked driver's inside door handle. It is secure when this occurs.
6) Philly, as I think about it working the driver's door key in this situation a few times typically sets off that alarm.
I don't like giving such scketchy answers, not very scientific I know. WTF, maybe I'll go out and set the alarm, touch the handle and put it in proper order mate. Only problem is its 30degress here so to move the car I'd have to warm her up. Let's see what I can pull off for you.
Anyway from your description I'm convinced you have deadlocked your door. As I started reading it I was betting on the old "door frozen closed" that we all ran into the first year of ownership in the winter. I forget if you are new or not - in case -Just leave the window opened a crack if your outside with freezing rain coming. These babies seal the window and the rubber real well. It can be covered in ice and you have a fun job to melt that.
Ok just went out and tried to codify this. The Driver's door deadlocked with two beeps (like it was unlocking). Subsequent presses of the unlock button on the FOB unlocked and disarmed the car. I did not try the door key this round.
Eventually my fiddling around with the unlock button set off the alarm, I disabled it imediately and unlocked the door by pressing the unlock button on the fob.
Not much help I'm sure but maybe something good will come out of this story.
Thank you for the tips, Johnken. I was not aware one could even "deadlock" these cars. I'm doing some research at the moment to see what others have done to undo it.
I'm certain it is not the window freezing as I can control the window up and down just fine. Also, I cannot get my alarm to sound if I press the unlock button too many times. I went out and tinkered with it sime more with the same results. Key in the driver's door I get a chirp when turned either way, locking and unlocking the car. I press the lock button on the fob and the alarm sounds almost immediately after. I press the unlock and it turns the alarm off and cycles the locks. Door handle oitside doesn't "catch" anything when pulled. Door handle inside appears locked but will not open the door.
I even pressed the door inwards several times from the outside while pulling the handle, thinking the latch may be lodged, but the handle just feels locked.
Hi chillyphilly. Definitely not the weather to be working on cars unless you have a heated garage or live in the Caribbean..
Originally Posted by chillyphilly
When I place the car in drive the doors will lock, but when I place it in park they will not unlock until I pull on the passenger door handle (not sure if this is normal, I haven't owned the car long enough).
This is called something like 'lock on drive away' and is a dealer-programmable option. Mine behaves in this way.
Deadlock (Jaguar call it superlocking) is also a dealer-programmable option although from what I've read, not generally set in the US.
Yes, it is a warm and balmy 44F today, warmest it has been in a while. It has been in the single digits for too long.
Dealer programmable, as in it is a completely electronic setting I can change with IDS? I do have a setup I can plug in, though I have not done much with this car with it. Originally I was assuming this fault was more mechanical than anything, so I didn't think it would help.
Also, I wonder if I can plug it in and change it, or if the lockout mode has to me remedied before I change it?
Thanks for the extra read read. That does not look like fun, but a I am about to the point of tearing it apart from inside. I can't get the dang thing to do anything. Also, how come I keep seeing instructions on how to enable the deadlock, but none on how to disable??
If you have the dealer software then yes, you can change options like this. There is a list somewhere on here of what the various options are. Having said that, I'd be tempted not to change anything until you've sorted the lock issue.
I've just dealt with exactly this on my DD (not Jaguar). Fortunately I had a spare lock so I could remove the old one in pieces. Hammer and long screwdriver worked well here, but not fun.
Technology is great, but nobody on the design team was charged with identifying the 'how do we get the door open if the lock fails?' process
As John says, the deadlock is cancelled by the normal unlock routine.
I would first spray the door latch mechanism with WD40 and work the door open and closed a few times. The door latch is another part of the car that is forgotten when it comes to lubrication. It has linkage and switches that need lubrication. Not to say this will fix your problem but it has helped others.
Got it, I didn't realize that was the "official" way to disable the deadlock. Too late on the IDS. I connected the VCM up and began poking around. Cleared some stored DTC's, they were on there last time I plugged in a couple of weeks ago. Had a few DTC's come back, but nothing relative (a couple with something about the windows-I hadn't set the limits yet, one about the headlights needing programmed, etc). I figured WTH, I'm plugged in, so I reprogrammed the driver's door module just in case it was out of line, along with the security system. Along with that I reprogrammed the key fob, and now I can arm the alarm with the fob without setting it off, so something good came from it. It was interesting though, I tried to reprogram the security immobilizer, and it was the only function that kept coming up with an error when it to tried to read the control module. I tried 3-4 times and kept getting the same error message part way through. Also, it appears the VCM is not communicating with some of the modules, which happened when I plugged it in two weeks ago. I know the VCM and setup works, I just used it on our x350 and had no problems. I attached a picture with a screenshot of what it is not communicating with. Maybe someone with better computer skills can decipher what is going on with that. For some reason I have not been able to connect to the IP either time, and this time I could not connect to the PSM, whereas last time I could. Also, isn't it strange the TCM and other things are coming up as optional equipment? Last I checked the TCM was mandatory. When I click on them and try to re run them, the same symbol comes back.
Gus, I tried the WD-40 trick, and it didn't change anything. It did, however, make the locking mechanism easier to turn, so it did something on the positive side. EDIT: I thought you meant the key hole. I just lubed the latch mechanism from outside with no effect. When I pull the door card I will be sure to spray or graphite them.
As a side note, the OEM battery that is out of the car is connected to the CTEK charger getting reconditioned, and it just hit float mode, so it should be good to go as long as it can hold a charge.
So, I have a new battery, my locks are well lubricated, my key fob works, and I learned something new about the lockout mode from these awesome forum members. Thanks for the help so far guys!
I guess tomorrow the door card is coming off. If anyone had a large demolition bar I can borrow, I just may be able to access the latch mechanism from outside the car
Last edited by chillyphilly; 01-20-2017 at 07:04 PM.
Thanks for the reminder, I saw several people on here say that needed to be done. I suppose the fingers would be something nice to have around for later.
Okay, I have the door card off as far as I can. I managed to removed the left metal window guide for more space inside. The battery is disconnected and when I pull either the outside or inside door handle, they pull the rods inside the door.
So my question is, how do you get the door to unlatch from here? I thought I would be able to shift a connecting rod inside the door, but they are moving when the latches are pulled. As far as I know, I cannot remove the door latch from inside the door, the main bolts to it are on the door jamb side.
Since both latches move their rods to the latch, I'm guessing the key might be to remove the metal anti theft shield inside the door (once I find where the bolts are for it, I haven't been able to feel anything yet) and then manually depress the locking rod to unlock..? I'm really not sure that will work because when I turn the key in the keyhole in the door to unlock (with the battery connected or disconnected) I can feel a click, which feels like it is pulling on the rod. Can the fault truly be completely internal to the latch mechanism itself?
Last edited by chillyphilly; 01-21-2017 at 12:38 PM.
I've been giving this some thought. Apologies if some of the following is stating the obvious.
The external and internal door handles operate separate levers to the door latch.
An unlocked door can be opened by pulling either the exterior or interior handle. This is mechanical, and will work with the battery disconnected.
The normal locking/unlocking operation causes the actuator to disable/enable the part of the lock mechanism that is operated by the external handle. A normally locked door can be unlocked by pulling the interior handle.
A deadlock operation must cause the actuator to go one step further and disable both levers on the door lock: there's now no external means of releasing the latch.
Originally Posted by chillyphilly
The driver's interior door handle will not visibly lock and unlock.
It sounds like the actuator isn't working properly?
There's a 13-way black connector (DD3) at the driver's door that comes from the lock mechanism.
I wonder if you can disconnect that and feed power direct to the actuator via a pair of test leads.
Apply 12v to dd3-3 and either dd3-2 or dd3-1, the latter depending on the lock status switch. You should be able to cause the actuator to move both ways by reversing the leads. Don't apply power for more than a second or two.
This connector shows in Rev. Sam's video (8:53)
Appreciate that you're working in a cramped area, but if you can get the actuator to reverse then you'll be able to open the door to continue the fix. If this doesn't work then you do have the possibility of an internal lock fault. In that case I'd try to get hold of a second-hand lock. It's always easier to see how it all fits together if you have it in front of you on the workbench, and should give you some clues on how to progress.
Separately, I've noticed that unlocking using the key always puts the car in countdown mode with an internal sounder warming. Gives about 10 seconds or so to turn on the ignition before the horns let loose.
HTH,
Mike
Last edited by michaelh; 01-22-2017 at 01:29 PM.
Reason: clarify limiting time power applied to actuator
This is a link to a door latch that I had worked on and it might help you with the micro switches. What I found was that the switch was out of adjustment and not broken. Worth reviewing.
Michaelh, excellent thoughts, thank you. I suppose by applying power through the connector and it working it would verify something "upstream" is at fault. I keep putting off buying a multimeter so this may be an excuse to purchase a decent one. I'm sure there are other ways to apply power if I need to right now, too.
If the jump doesn't work, then something on the latch itself is bad. Perhaps I do not fully understand the latching mechanism, but is it truly possible to bypass all the microswitches and work the latch and the lock mechanically? Reason I ask, is if the jump doesn't work because of a faulty microswitch, it will still not actuate the lock.
If I understand it right (I am by no means electrically inclined) by placing power from the middle yellow wire to either the yellow/blue/black or to the yellow/green (all grouped together in the connector nearest to us) I should be able to actuate the lock? I attached a picture to verify (the picture is actually the wrong side of the connector I pulled apart, the correct one is too far inside the door to picture...plus, the other connector has different colored wiring to it and does not coordinate with the one pictured...there are no solid yellow wires or anything). I think I'll need to look at the whole wiring diagram to verify so I don't cross anything.
I hope I am being clear, my brain may be a little fuzzy from working in a cramped space too long. I just about have the driver's seat out, just need to figure out how to disconnect the wiring to it. I figured this would at least buy me some extra room to further pull the door panel off.
Gus, thank you for the link, it gives me some more ways to look at the assembly,
His page clearly shows the layout of the lock mechanism. It also shows that the actuator (black box with the bellows at one end) is a separate item. If you can get to this with a screwdriver or similar, you may be able to move it without needing to power it up.
Another search has just brought up this U-Tube video. It's for an XJ8 rear door, but it's pretty much the same. Take a look from about 6:10 - see what you think:
Awesome! Thank you for the links! I missed the locking actuator in Gus's post and for some reason thoight it was on the opposite end of the latch. That video solidifies what I am thinking in that once I get the theft shield off, I should be able to manually depress the locking mechanism. That gives me some courage.
You have been a great help so far, I appreciate it! I feel like I'm getting some straight up professional help here.
Rev. Sam mentions the antitheft shield in the video but sounds like he discarded it on a previous visit inside the door so no instructions.
Just to pick up on your previous comment about wiring colours not matching - the image snip I took was from 2003 JTIS, which I believe is the most recent so not sure what's going on there. I'll re-check it.
Good luck. It's not a fun job and I had the comfort of a parts car so didn't have to be too gentle with the old lock.
I just removed the exterior door latch rod, the 7mm bolt on the theft shield, and the theft shield itself. I worked the locking rod back and forth a few times and then heard a clunk from it. Now instead of staying in the up position, it has fallen down and will not hold itself up like before. I am supposing the linkage inside came apart that connects to the bellows portion, so I'm hoping to remove the black plastic casing on the latch mechanism (might be tricky because the inserted screwdriver to release it should go in from the jamb side to uncover it) and hopefully be able to manually depress it as in the video.
01-20-2017, 10:54 AM
Driver's door will not open
