Faulty Brake Pedal Switch (Again)....
#22
11-17-2016, 08:59 AM
No, it's the same. In the first photo, you can make out the two parts of the ratchet in white plastic. In the second you can see how it's possible to reset the ratchet by opening it with a pair of long-nose pliers. (While the assembly is in situ if necessary.)
Last edited by astromorg; 11-17-2016 at 09:01 AM.
#23
11-18-2016, 10:32 AM
just for chuckles try cleaning the multi pin connector that plugs into the abs module with contact cleaner. the 2 pin power plug also. mine was acting up and giving all kinds of codes replaced the module and cleared for awhile then came back sprayed the pins and connector with cleaner and so far after 5 days no codes.
#24
11-28-2016, 03:25 PM
Update:
I got my repaired brake pedal switch back from my EE friend last Wednesday night. He replaced both microswitches and re-soldered every solder point on the circuit board. I'm still trying to convince my wife to help me install the repaired switch. She remembers all too well what a major hassle this job was back in October 2012 when her factory switch failed because she was the one stuffing herself upside-down into the drivers floorboard and feeding the new switch into position while I pulled the bracket through the firewall with monofilament fishing line tied to the bracket's two mounting studs. She continues to hand me every excuse she can think of for not helping me this time even though it is her car, not mine. I don't blame her, though. She's no circus contortionist and neither am I....
Maybe tomorrow. I want to get this job over with so I can find out if my friend's switch repair efforts indeed did the trick....
Stay tuned....
I got my repaired brake pedal switch back from my EE friend last Wednesday night. He replaced both microswitches and re-soldered every solder point on the circuit board. I'm still trying to convince my wife to help me install the repaired switch. She remembers all too well what a major hassle this job was back in October 2012 when her factory switch failed because she was the one stuffing herself upside-down into the drivers floorboard and feeding the new switch into position while I pulled the bracket through the firewall with monofilament fishing line tied to the bracket's two mounting studs. She continues to hand me every excuse she can think of for not helping me this time even though it is her car, not mine. I don't blame her, though. She's no circus contortionist and neither am I....
Maybe tomorrow. I want to get this job over with so I can find out if my friend's switch repair efforts indeed did the trick....
Stay tuned....
#25
11-30-2016, 02:56 PM
Update:
My wife and I did the job in about 90 minutes this afternoon. And she now tells me that she will never help with this job again even though it is her car. I'll let her drive the car for a few days and if the "check rear lights / cruise not available" messages on the dashboard do not return during that timeframe, I will consider the job a success and I'll have my EE friend replace the microswitches on the failing brake pedal switch assembly we removed today just so I'll have a spare. You never know when you'll need one....
My wife and I did the job in about 90 minutes this afternoon. And she now tells me that she will never help with this job again even though it is her car. I'll let her drive the car for a few days and if the "check rear lights / cruise not available" messages on the dashboard do not return during that timeframe, I will consider the job a success and I'll have my EE friend replace the microswitches on the failing brake pedal switch assembly we removed today just so I'll have a spare. You never know when you'll need one....
#26
12-01-2016, 03:34 PM
Veteran Member
Brake Switch
I just finished replacing my brake switch. It did cost me about $145. This has to be one of the biggest markups on a part I've ever seen. The thing is a piece of plastic with two micro switches, a couple of wires and a connector. But anyway, I chose to try the "remove the switch from the bracket" method because my wife won't help me wash the car much less work on it ! So, I put the top down, seat all the way back (always is), steering wheel up, and shoes off. I went in sideways and twisted around onto my back making sure I could get both hands in there with my feet on either side of the driver's headrest. I got the lower nut off fairly easily, then I was able to slide the switch off the upper nut (the switch is slotted at the top). I pushed the brake in and was able to get the old switch out. Getting the new switch slot under the top nut was very tricky, but with perserverance (sp?) and some choice Jaguar magic words I was able to get it in there and slip the bottom hole over the bottom stud - this with the engine running and me pushing on the brake pedal. The connector was no problem. It took me about 40 minutes, and only about 35 of it was abject torture.
The following 2 users liked this post by JimmyL:
grantorino62 (12-01-2016),
Jon89 (12-02-2016)
#27
12-01-2016, 03:57 PM
Veteran Member
The following users liked this post:
Jon89 (12-02-2016)
#28
12-02-2016, 07:15 AM
Wayne,
I hear you, and I'll bet Rick does, too. If I have to do this job a third time, I'm going to hire a local 9-year-old kid for the under-dash work (assuming I can find one willing to get up from his online gaming console and come outside for an hour or so)....
By the way, once the repaired switch was installed and bolted down, Jan could not manage to get the electrical connectors aligned and snapped into place. So I had to climb under there and do it. My shoulders were far too wide to allow me to get both arms to the switch so I had to line the clips up and reconnect them using just one hand. After a couple of minutes and a few choice cursewords, they clicked together and I probably looked like a giant python trying to wriggle my way out of there....
JimmyL,
Take the drivers seat out of the car next time. Only four Torx bolts and with the seat out of the way, you have much more room to twist and contort your body as required....
So far so good with the repaired switch. No messages or codes. I've got my fingers crossed that it stays that way....
I hear you, and I'll bet Rick does, too. If I have to do this job a third time, I'm going to hire a local 9-year-old kid for the under-dash work (assuming I can find one willing to get up from his online gaming console and come outside for an hour or so)....
By the way, once the repaired switch was installed and bolted down, Jan could not manage to get the electrical connectors aligned and snapped into place. So I had to climb under there and do it. My shoulders were far too wide to allow me to get both arms to the switch so I had to line the clips up and reconnect them using just one hand. After a couple of minutes and a few choice cursewords, they clicked together and I probably looked like a giant python trying to wriggle my way out of there....
JimmyL,
Take the drivers seat out of the car next time. Only four Torx bolts and with the seat out of the way, you have much more room to twist and contort your body as required....
So far so good with the repaired switch. No messages or codes. I've got my fingers crossed that it stays that way....
Last edited by Jon89; 12-02-2016 at 07:21 AM.
#29
02-03-2017, 08:51 PM
Senior Member
My Lord!
How is it that everyone has so much trouble replacing this switch? I read post after post about the horror of it all and it was enough for me to stare at the new switch for like a week before attempting it.........lol. Ok seriously, it took less than 20 minutes start to finish and I didn't take out a seat or become a contortionist either. I did follow some helpful tips I collected on the forum though and they all worked out perfectly.
1) You need a helper. I guess you might get lucky by yourself but with someones help, you can just barge right along.
2) There are some photos on the forum but getting my camera up in there to get a clear idea of the switch orientation and angle was helpful.
3) The only thing I removed besides the cover to access the nuts was a piece of the foam right around the top of the brake pedal. It was about a 3" by 2" piece of foam with rubber layer. Who cares, can't see it anyway so I just tore the piece off for better accessibility.
4) Started the car and used a bar to brace the brake pedal down using the seat track underneath to brace it. The cool thing here is if you get the bar to a good length, you can pull the seat forward or backward to get the pedal as low as possible. It needs to be down to the floor pretty good or else you are never getting that switch back in.
5) Find the electrical connector (mine was readily visible) and disconnect it.
6) Pull the 2 x 8mm nuts off the switch from the engine bay and you'll hear the switch fall to the floor inside the car.
Putting the new switch in:
1) Again you need a helper and give them instructions as to what is left, right, up or down. You won't be able to see them outside the car as you have them peer through the two stud holes to allow you to line up the new switch.
2) Put a bright flashlight on the floor in front of the brake pedal to help the person outside see where you are better. Obviously, that person is going to guide you to the lining up the studs to the holes.
3) I cut off about a 18" strip of thin aluminum rod and used it as a stick to put the new switch up into place. It just slid between the plastic casing and the electrical cable where it comes out of the plastic body (forum member tip)
4) Your helper is outside and you basically have a brake switch Popsicle. Get the switch up into the area. A great tip is that although it is extremely difficult to get in there deep enough to see the holes you are trying to align, it is relatively easy to keep in there close enough to see the rod on the pedal that activates the switch. So you can at least get the positioning close even if you were by yourself. I didn't have to worry about it but still, that little rod piece got me close and then my son through simple commands, guided me the rest of the way.
5) Once I felt confident that it was seated well, I switched positions with him carefully so that I could manage the 2 little 8mm nuts in a pretty tight space. Few turns later and done!
6) I slowly released the rod holding the brake peddle down and once I was convinced it was gently seated in the switch, I took a little tension off the two nuts in the engine bay to let the switch center itself on the rod.
7) Plugged in the electrical connector, threw the piece of foam in the trash - done!
It really was that simple.
If its hard, you're doing it wrong lol
About the switch:
I understand that the two micro-switches work in harmony with each other to communicate to the computer and weird stuff happens when it doesn't. That's why I was perplexed as I checked the switch I removed. I am going to do a conductivity test here in a few but what is obvious is that the two micro-switches on my old unit are not synchronized. Each switch makes a little click as it connects and disconnects and when I do this very slowly, I can hear two clicks going in and two clicks coming out. Now I am wondering if the problem with most switches is that something is not evenly pressing them anymore or they are worn a not consistent with the way they engaged new? Will follow up but I hope the little workflow helps someone else.
How is it that everyone has so much trouble replacing this switch? I read post after post about the horror of it all and it was enough for me to stare at the new switch for like a week before attempting it.........lol. Ok seriously, it took less than 20 minutes start to finish and I didn't take out a seat or become a contortionist either. I did follow some helpful tips I collected on the forum though and they all worked out perfectly.
1) You need a helper. I guess you might get lucky by yourself but with someones help, you can just barge right along.
2) There are some photos on the forum but getting my camera up in there to get a clear idea of the switch orientation and angle was helpful.
3) The only thing I removed besides the cover to access the nuts was a piece of the foam right around the top of the brake pedal. It was about a 3" by 2" piece of foam with rubber layer. Who cares, can't see it anyway so I just tore the piece off for better accessibility.
4) Started the car and used a bar to brace the brake pedal down using the seat track underneath to brace it. The cool thing here is if you get the bar to a good length, you can pull the seat forward or backward to get the pedal as low as possible. It needs to be down to the floor pretty good or else you are never getting that switch back in.
5) Find the electrical connector (mine was readily visible) and disconnect it.
6) Pull the 2 x 8mm nuts off the switch from the engine bay and you'll hear the switch fall to the floor inside the car.
Putting the new switch in:
1) Again you need a helper and give them instructions as to what is left, right, up or down. You won't be able to see them outside the car as you have them peer through the two stud holes to allow you to line up the new switch.
2) Put a bright flashlight on the floor in front of the brake pedal to help the person outside see where you are better. Obviously, that person is going to guide you to the lining up the studs to the holes.
3) I cut off about a 18" strip of thin aluminum rod and used it as a stick to put the new switch up into place. It just slid between the plastic casing and the electrical cable where it comes out of the plastic body (forum member tip)
4) Your helper is outside and you basically have a brake switch Popsicle. Get the switch up into the area. A great tip is that although it is extremely difficult to get in there deep enough to see the holes you are trying to align, it is relatively easy to keep in there close enough to see the rod on the pedal that activates the switch. So you can at least get the positioning close even if you were by yourself. I didn't have to worry about it but still, that little rod piece got me close and then my son through simple commands, guided me the rest of the way.
5) Once I felt confident that it was seated well, I switched positions with him carefully so that I could manage the 2 little 8mm nuts in a pretty tight space. Few turns later and done!
6) I slowly released the rod holding the brake peddle down and once I was convinced it was gently seated in the switch, I took a little tension off the two nuts in the engine bay to let the switch center itself on the rod.
7) Plugged in the electrical connector, threw the piece of foam in the trash - done!
It really was that simple.
If its hard, you're doing it wrong lol
About the switch:
I understand that the two micro-switches work in harmony with each other to communicate to the computer and weird stuff happens when it doesn't. That's why I was perplexed as I checked the switch I removed. I am going to do a conductivity test here in a few but what is obvious is that the two micro-switches on my old unit are not synchronized. Each switch makes a little click as it connects and disconnects and when I do this very slowly, I can hear two clicks going in and two clicks coming out. Now I am wondering if the problem with most switches is that something is not evenly pressing them anymore or they are worn a not consistent with the way they engaged new? Will follow up but I hope the little workflow helps someone else.
#31
02-04-2017, 11:38 AM
Senior Member
Honestly, I considered doing that first because as you say, it could be a 1-man job. Probably is
What I noticed with that method is the need to visually see or at least have good feel for getting the one nut back on and the bracket lives behind more of that thick foam. So since I had friends (made him myself lol) I decided to try option A first and then this would have been option B. Didn't need option B and got to spend a little time with my son.
So yea, either may work but it should not take more than 20 minutes start to finish so I am baffled still with people taking hours to do it.
However, I remember a time when it took me hours to do something unsuccessfully which finally resulted in having to have my X5 towed to a shop. You see no one told me, and I never considered that the viscous fan nut used reverse threads. So after a couple of bent and broken tools, bloodied fingers and a broken waterpump belt wheel (made of plastic). I gave up. Only later did I learn that a simple spin in the other direction would have popped it right off
B
#32
02-04-2017, 11:50 AM
razorboy,
I'm glad your brake pedal switch assembly replacement job went so smoothly. But your case is indeed rare. Most of us really struggle with this job. At 6-foot-7 and 260 pounds with monster-sized hands and very wide shoulders, I have no chance at wedging myself up underneath the dash on my back and still being able to get my hands where they need to be even with the drivers seat removed. My wife is considerably smaller than me and she struggled through this job not once, but twice (and continues to tell me that even though it is her car, she will never do it again). So if you pulled it off as easily as you say without even removing the seat, then more power to you. And maybe you can come do it for us if her car winds up needing it a third time....
I'm glad your brake pedal switch assembly replacement job went so smoothly. But your case is indeed rare. Most of us really struggle with this job. At 6-foot-7 and 260 pounds with monster-sized hands and very wide shoulders, I have no chance at wedging myself up underneath the dash on my back and still being able to get my hands where they need to be even with the drivers seat removed. My wife is considerably smaller than me and she struggled through this job not once, but twice (and continues to tell me that even though it is her car, she will never do it again). So if you pulled it off as easily as you say without even removing the seat, then more power to you. And maybe you can come do it for us if her car winds up needing it a third time....
Last edited by Jon89; 02-04-2017 at 12:06 PM.
#34
02-05-2017, 01:27 PM
Senior Member
razorboy,
I'm glad your brake pedal switch assembly replacement job went so smoothly. But your case is indeed rare. Most of us really struggle with this job. At 6-foot-7 and 260 pounds with monster-sized hands and very wide shoulders, I have no chance at wedging myself up underneath the dash on my back and still being able to get my hands where they need to be even with the drivers seat removed. My wife is considerably smaller than me and she struggled through this job not once, but twice (and continues to tell me that even though it is her car, she will never do it again). So if you pulled it off as easily as you say without even removing the seat, then more power to you. And maybe you can come do it for us if her car winds up needing it a third time....
I'm glad your brake pedal switch assembly replacement job went so smoothly. But your case is indeed rare. Most of us really struggle with this job. At 6-foot-7 and 260 pounds with monster-sized hands and very wide shoulders, I have no chance at wedging myself up underneath the dash on my back and still being able to get my hands where they need to be even with the drivers seat removed. My wife is considerably smaller than me and she struggled through this job not once, but twice (and continues to tell me that even though it is her car, she will never do it again). So if you pulled it off as easily as you say without even removing the seat, then more power to you. And maybe you can come do it for us if her car winds up needing it a third time....
I would certainly do it for you a dozen times over if you lived close by. No issues helping other owners whenever I can.
You are certainly a big guy and I can see how you would not enjoy trying to get into cramped spaces. I am 6.1" and 190lbs so I am not exactly tiny either. My post should have been most interesting to you because the way I did it made it so I didn't have to jam myself under the dash. With my switch Popsicle I was able to just reach up into the area and fish around a little with the help of my son to guide the studs into the holes.
It makes sense to me that if I found a way to do the job easier, I would post about it. I did give every detail of the way I did it so hopefully, someone gets to read that post before they attempt the job themselves. With only one persons perspective (and without knowing your height and weight), a person would just give up before trying and the dealer or repair shop gets to reap the rewards of that.
So apologies if you took it the wrong way, I was just really surprised after reading all the horror stories of doing this that I was able to do it, first try, in a matter of minutes.
I sat at my work table with the old switch and the new one for a bit before installing it wondering what possibly fails? I checked continuity on both of the micro-switches and although my meter doesn't give a solid tone / no tone, it never has with switches. Maybe a micro-switch went bad but I was more interested in the fact that when I depressed the actuator on the full switch assembly, I could clearly hear one switch "clicking in" before the other. This was both going in and coming out. This was repeatable again and again. The new switch didn't do that or if it did, it was extremely close.
So if these micro-switches are supposed to work in tandem to the cars ECU, I would expect they need to be very close in activation and deactivation. What I would like to know, on a ECU level, is what the tolerances are in the ECU receiving this information un-synchronized? I expected to find some groove or something in the actuator that would explain why the micro-switches were not sync'd in their click but maybe the click doesn't correspond to the switch contact - dunno?
I am going to remove the actuator of the old switch and see about filing it to the point where both micro-switches click at almost exactly the same time. Yes, then I am going to install the old switch again to see if I get the same errors on the dash. My errors have disappeared since I installed the new one.
Last edited by razorboy; 02-05-2017 at 01:30 PM.
#35
02-06-2017, 06:15 PM
Veteran Member
I have a 2003 XK8 and it just started to show those "Cruise Not Available" and "Check Rear Lights" warning messages. No DTC codes show up on my scanner however. Does anyone have the manufacturer name and part number of the microswitches in the brake light switch assembly? I'd rather replace them than the entire assembly.