I wish I could get one for that money - cheapest I've found so far is around double, and nowhere over here seems to stock one

Tough one. You have to weigh the cost (they ain't cheap at ~$130 each for OEM) against the pain of changing them later (one side is a bear). My car has similar mileage, and AFAICS they're still good (i.e. not leaking), but I have bought new (along with the Vee-mounts) with a view to changing them out next spring as PM. Same with the Vee-mounts. Where do we stop? I do wonder sometimes...


I suspect you already have JTIS or the workshop manual, but I've attached the crossmember drop section just in case. You may be able to leave the steering rack in situ and just let it hang.
I've also attached a TSB regarding the lower control arm bushing replacements as JTIS isn't correct / out of date.

Replace the roll/sway bar bushings if you haven't already. They're not expensive & easier to get at with everything apart.

Good news on the balljoints as the lower one is a real b*llache.

Kudos to you for taking this on:- it will keep you busy over the winter Do have a search through the forum to see what others have done. Here's a thread from GordoGatCar to get you started:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...34/#post669341

 

My .02 worth is that if it were my car I'd change the V-mounts/motor mounts while it is at it's easiest. Then never give it a thought again. I do like spending others money, it's a gift. LOL
But I do hate doing something again when I shoulda done it before. I replaced a rusty front subframe on my Acura TL then had to do the trans a year later. Meaning part of the subframe had to come back out. Not fun. Your mileage and opinion may vary.
Good on ya for finding a good price on the parts. TM

 

Folks are right about both the vee mounts and letting the steering rack just hang there. The rack was easier than I thought it would be.

And ya just might use the engine support bar again, ya never know. If you get harbor freights version you can just return it.

I was able to turn the motor mounts off by had once the rack was down and out.

A ball joint separator is a good thing.

A good rolling hydrolic jack is the thing, when lowering the old and placing the new sub frame... Make sure you can git the height you'll need.

If yours is a convertible, just be careful with the bolts on the X brace, maybe hit them with some PB Blaster for a couple of days before. I really was very nervous when removing mine, the fear of sheared bolts on the exposed underside of the car is a thing for me. A few bad experiences

It's really not a bad job and cleaning is easy when it's out, too. Such a good look at everything on the underside. Maybe get some rubberized undercoating?
​​​

 

Hello All! I’ve suffered a neck injury which Monkeyed my Wrenches, but with pain meds & an upcoming surgery to fuse 3 disks together…. I’m getting back to assembly.

As usual, I need advice…

So far… -I have installed a used front subframe.

(The rear left bolt which mounts the subframe to the body was totally fused with rust. I Drilled it and tapped in new threads.)

My frame damage was likely due to a loosened nut on the lower rear control arm bolt. So I bought Removable Threadlocker.(Blue)

(I am planning to use on lower control arm to Subframe bolts post-allignment.)

??? Big Question #1 = Is it an advisable idea to use ‘semi-permanent’ threadlocker on Frame bolts &/or Engine mounts? Or is it smarter to get anti-seize for these?

-Also, I installed bushings for control arms & Sway bar.(outsourced lower C.A. install)

Problem = The newly installed lower C.A. bushings are misaligned by about 1/16” (too wide).

The Control Arms cannot slide into the mounting brackets at the same time.

All bushings appear completely & properly installed.

Nonetheless, with the rear bushing aligned correctly with it’s mount, the front bushing is too far forward of center between it’s mount brackets.

There is a 1/16th gap between the bushing and the mount plate on one side, and it is too long by 1/16” on the other.

As the gap appears the width of a common washer… The guys at the machine shop suggest I grind down one bushing on it’s long side & add a steel washer into the gap on the short side. (I think he doesn’t want to cut out anymore bushings!)



??? Big Question #2 = Should I try it & see if Pep Boys can properly allign it?

…or is this a horrible idea which won’t allign & I truly need to get new bushings pressed?

If a no-go, any advice on quality brands cheaper than Jaguar?



These bushings are Uro brand… do you know of anyone experiencing “Off-sized” bushing from them? The Total bushing Length is correct & fits properly between the subframe mounting brackets. It seems the bushing Head is approx. 1/32” too short which allowed the bushing to be pressed in slightly too far, increasing the distance between front & rear bushings. In my case, it was enough to prevent installation.



Thanks again for your excellent help and comradery!


Sorry about blurry

 

Huge congrats on being UP and ABOUT and back at it. Good **** man!

Hmm. Are the are the lower control arm ARMS still attached to the hub/nuckle and all,,, carrying the caliper, rotor and all that? If yes (and maybe even if not) ---- if I had a 16th of an in short on one side and a 16th too long on the other,,, from what I am seeing in the photos (if possible) I would take a long bar and force the bush ends into their slots. I guess I would use a 'reasonable' amount of force in this process, get the bolts in and tighten em down (slow and careful) an see what happens. I'm guessing (especially if they are still supporting the entire weight of hub/knuckle/brake etc - they will line themselves up.

I've replaced the lowers once or twice and I don't think it was an exacting "perfect" fit. As in the bushings landing perfectly between the guide wings on the underside of the subframe. If I remember, it took a little persuasion and wrestling. No a lot, but some.

 

Perhaps one bushing isn't pressed in all the way and shifting things that 1/16". When I did my bushes I didn't experience this issue. It wasn't perfect as mentioned about but it went together just fine. There is a ring/collar on the bush that needs to be seated completely against the arm. TM

 

Ouch! Hope you get the neck problem sorted quickly.

For the sake of 1/16", I'd just apply some lateral force to get the bushings in place as Jay suggests, rather than going the file and pack route. The bush construction allows for this movement during normal driving in any case. Might have an effect on castor.

I didn't have any particular issues on reassembly, although I used OEM parts. Key is that the bushings must be seated properly as STLTHMSTA notes - although I don't think that's your issue since the distance between would be too narrow if they weren't, which is the opposite of what you're seeing.

It may just be manufacturing tolerances of the bushings?

I don't remember seeing any locking compound on those bolts, and I didn't use any putting it back together. The nuts have an oval 'dome' which has some form of locking effect. Smear some copper grease on the bolt shanks to make it easier for the next one in

Remember to have the car on the ground before doing the final torque-ups.

Curious:- which bolt did you have to drill out?

 

Good to hear from you JJJ! Thanks… I hope you’ve been well!
I do have the lower control arm separated from hub/ball joint.
I have tried to coerce the bushing into place by prying.
I used the Max force I am comfortable using to wedge it in, but it is too misaligned to fit.
Being aluminum framed, I’m uncomfortable prying it beyond the pressure I already used.

With the bushings and washers both being stainless, in theory, the ‘file & add washer’ solution should work without causing problems.
‘Unless you advise not, I think I’ll try that fix to get on the road, then see what the allignment mechanic says about it.
It seems worth the shot.

 

Are you sure the bushings are in correct position and correct orientation. Front and rear are different and offset of centre in each differes by about the distance you are out.

Difference between bushings for front and rear arms lower control arm.

 

Baxtor, you may be on to something. I also thought that could make the difference. Another thought is to measure the new and old subframe where the control arms bolt up. See if there is some kinda difference there. Measure and compare, measure and compare, repeat. Just a thought, TM

 

An issue l have found worth noting with these bushings is the tendency they have for folding the lip of the metal casing if they are pressed in without a properly fitted mandrel. This will result in the bush appearing to be pressed fully home but is in fact sitting proud of where it should be.
I am not suggesting this is the problem here though.

 

Yeah Man, I been ok...! Thanks...

I say trust yourself about the prying and force then. Feel,,, as the famous Grant Francis says in the XJS forum,,, is.very important... As was mentioned, check the orientation of everything. It's hard to find diagrams and images that let you 'know' which way things are supposed to be placed. I like the Jahuar Landover Classic site for diagrams - and even there there can be inconsistency. Look for images and make sure the bushings are facing the right way...?

 

There was a parade of superseded lower control arm bushes.
The early plastic bushes were failing so we started using whatever worked.(we used metalastic fronts/rears whatever EXCEPT the plastic bushes)

 

OK, the distance between the inner bushing faces of the lower arm is fixed, as are the mounting locations on the subframe so it wouldn't make any difference to the gap if the bushings were installed in the wrong sides of the LCA.

I've just (roughly) measured on my car, front bushing. The gap between the subframe and the top of the rubber is around 5mm, and the distance between the outside edge of the arm and the subframe is ~12 mm (although the outer face of the arm isn't machined, so this is only approximate).

On the rear bushing, the rubber butts up to the subframe, and the gap between the outside edge of the arm and the subframe is around 15mm.


If my memory serves me, the inner sleeve of the front bushing (MNE1360CA) protruded more from the top than is apparent on your pic., which is one reason why I elected to source the Jaguar service tools to push the new ones rather than the 'flat plate' described in the WS manual procedure (although thankfully not in the related TSBs)

The other reason is as noted by baxtor:- the flange on the bushings can distort, although this would lead to the bushing not being fully seated and not the issue here.

Do you have the same problem on the other axle?

 

As usual Michael,,, thanks for the lesson.

 

That must be it! All my bushings were the same… no front/back indication.
looking at your photo Baxtor, I have the flat-topped bushings, and not the flared-top off-set.
‘Do you remember which one goes to front or back?
I must order the correct bushing! Thanks!

 

Both subframe mount are identical.
I tried to fit the newly fitted control arms into the old frame with same distance noted as the new frame.
Must be the incorrect bushing as Baxtor has revealed.

 

A solution in sight is good.
If all your bushings were 1360CA (front arm) the distance between fitted bushing INNER faces would be too close but if all your bushings were 1360BB (rear arm) that distance would be too great which is what you have.
A quick look online shows just how confusing a process the purchase of these can be. The descriptions are quite often misleading, part numbers are only a suffix different and it would be almost impossible to distinguish one bush from the other especially if the old ones were destroyed in removal process.

 

I thought I posted a follow up already, but it seems not. I didn’t feel tardy!

The subframe was indeed easy to remove and replace.
However, I didn’t replace the frame mount bushings or V-mounts.
The Control Arms were a perfect fit once the correct bushings were installed.
With addition of new Rotors and Pads all around, sway bar bushings, and Continental tires on Apollo Rims… BIG Difference! Steers solid.

In summary of this completed project…I think with all the correct parts and tools ready to go, including the above mentioned omissions, the actual frame swap could be done in a day by any determined Shadetree.

The time delay mostly comes in with the replacement of bushings &/or the shock-spring assemblies.
I outsourced bushing pressing to a local machine shop.
He said he had to cut the bushings out because their press would not budge them.
So be prepared with a very high-tonnage press or saw if you plan to do them yourself.
NOTE: I also had the shop rebuild the Shock & Spring assemblies because I wasn’t able to compress them with loaner spring compressors.

Also, my damaged frame recommended that we caregivers occasionally torque or inspect all bolts associated with these aluminum subframes.
These include mounts to the body, to the engine, to the steering rack, and to the upper & lower control arms.

If I do this swap again, I will drop the whole frame from the car while fully assembled to the control arms.
It seems like inspection & access to many nuts and bolts would be much quicker/easier for an old geezer like me.
Anyone done this?

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread.
Much help was generously given. All help was generously Appreciated!!

 

Was a learning session for all of us. No thanks needed. Except ta thank you for taking us with ya!

The reaming out of all of these connection points really is a thing, and sucks. Like you said, proper torque and inspection makes sense but I don't think in the long run it will save the connection points (hardened steel on aluminum in some of the GREATEST stress point on the car) in a regularly driven car. It was play in my upper control arms (long bolt) that had gone bad.

I think steel or brass sleeves may be a solution...?

But, yes... I've done what you ask. But, for considerations of weight and balancing the THING on dropping and raising, I removed the entire hub assembly on each side at the ball joints, undid the brake lines and just re-bleed after reassembly... Weight difference without the hubs is significant.

I really only swapped IN a complete subframe from a new lower milage car. My original subframe had some 210+ K on it. The newer, 70+k or something. I'm ashamed to say I did not swap ANY of the bushings. Uppers looked tight and I could read Metalastic on the upper bushings (I've never seen a place to get new Metalastic upper control bushings) and the lowers,,,, well, I just went with what was there. Made a huge improvement on feel of the front end and suspension. But yeah, I would like to at least replace the lower bushings all around. Lower control and front subframe bushings. I have no experience with either of those jobs - but want to.

I used the engine support bar. Best 70$ 80$ bucks I ever spent. Have used it on a Porsche and the XK... I have real reservations about using it in a v12 engine,,, but will and soon. Have a lot of subframe mount work to do in an XJS... In time, in time.