So I finally heard from the JCNA national concours rule book head about exactly what I need to be prepared for if I enter my XK8 in the Special Division. As I thought, all my mods are totally acceptable and there won't be any deductions for things like non authentic badging and such.
The only thing he pointed out was my rear seat delete. And even though its also acceptable, it can loose points if it looks "stuck in" he says no original mounting hardware or any factory fasteners for the original seats can be visible. Basically, if it doesn't look like it came from the factory it can cost points. S now I'm concerned about the carpet I used. I looked everywhere for matching carpet but only found a basic black that in the sun, has a bit of shine. Hopefully they won't deduct points.
Other than that, the real judging is on the condition of the car, cleanliness, and quality of modifications. (Didnt ask if my engine is judged for cleanliness)
I'm probably setting my self up for failure since last year all but one car in this division, were performance E-types with racing pedigrees. And a yellow one won, four years in a row.

 

Depends how you're defining failure and success.

If you compete only against yourself, improving the car after each show and earning higher scores as a result, that isn't a failure. Many many years ago, when I was in the Concours game, the award I was most proud of was "Most Improved". That car later went on to win a JCNA regional 1st place in its Championship class....and it was my daily driver!

If your only measure of success is out-scoring the competition (and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that) then some strategy might be needed.



I looking at the JCNA concours standings for 2012-2013 and didn't see a yellow E-type listed. Perhaps the owner isn't competing for national standing?

How many events are you planning to compete in, and where? Are you competing only in your own club's events, or travelling to other clubs' events? The later gives you different judges and, likely, different cars to compete against....which can be an advantage.

Cheers
DD

 

Unless it costs a fortune to register and enter your car in its division roll the dice and and have at it. Showroom perfect is very rare. You are there to enjoy the day and the experience. If you place in the top three, great! If you don't, great again! Good luck and have a ball! If you want to do a Pebble Beach leave the Jag at home.
RB

 

"Nothing ventured, nothing gained!"

I think we all have to agree that your car is not only unique, but also very beuatiful, and very nicely done. I do not see how you can fail at all, but you may just come back with more ideas!

Just do it, and enjoy it!

 

To answer your question about whether or not the engine will be judged, see the quote from the JCNA Rule Book about Special Division:

"Special Division is intended for factory and non-factory-prepared competition and limited production Jaguars; production Jaguars privately prepared for competition; modified production Jaguars, and Jaguar powered vehicles with replica Jaguar bodies. The interior, exterior, engine compartment, and boot of Special Division Entries are judged only for condition and cleanliness, NOT for authenticity."

You had better start cleaning the engine as they will look underneath the bonnet. Good Luck.

 

I'd say go for it Phil. And Doug's comment is very insightful. Its all about how you define "winning." Please keep us all updated on how it goes! And get to work on your engine compartment!

 

Phil,

Some of your modifications have proved controversial but no one can deny they have all been done to a high standard.

Go for it and good luck.

Graham

 

+1, as I always say, it costs nothing to try and you may surprise yourself at the outcome.
At the very least you will have gained valuable knowledge if you should continue.

The very best of luck to you.

 

Folks, I think that there is some confusion about the JCNA "Special Division". There is not just *one* Special Division; there are four (4!) classes within the Special Division:
S1: Factory-produced and prepared Competition Jaguars, Factory-sponsored Competition and Limited Production Jaguars Note 1
S2: Production Jaguars privately prepared and modified for competition Note 2
S3: Modified Note 3
S4: Replica (non-production, Jaguar powered) Note 4

Most of the comments thus far on this thread have dealt with S1 and S2. Philhef, what you want to enter is S3, for which Note 3 says:

Note 3: Class S3
a. This Class is for production Jaguar vehicles of any year and model that have been substantially personalized, modified, or customized. Entries must be equipped with functional horns, headlights, taillights, brake lights, parking lights, license plate lights, back-up lights and turn signals appropriate to the vintage.
b. To qualify for Class S3, Entries must have 40 points or more of deductions for judged, non-authentic, or missing features or components (hereinafter called the qualifying deductions or items). Advance concours registration is required. The Entrant (using the appropriate form available in the “Concours” section of Jaguar Clubs of North America) must provide a list of the qualifying deductions, for the Chief Judge’s review and approval. Pictures of qualifying items may accompany the form.
Subject to acceptance of the qualifying deductions, Entries modified for solo racing events may be eligible for this class.
Custom fabricated items, e. g., one-off wheels, steering wheels, etc., custom body work and significantly non-authentic paint color or schemes may be included as qualifying deductions.
The qualifying items may not include the tire, wheel, or radio authenticity exceptions currently allowed in Driven Division (Section 3.A.1) or items “similar to the original”. This class is not for incomplete restorations or Entries whose modifications consist of the substitution of minor, non-authentic, after-market hardware. Aftermarket hardware, accessories and poor-quality reproduction components are NOT qualifying deductions and include:
- hoses, hose clamps, hose covers, nuts, bolts, washers, and other minor hardware
- wiring and wire connectors
If an original judged item is removed, and listed as one of the qualifying deductions, that item must either have been replaced by a non-authentic item or have had all mountings, and traces of the original installation, removed.
Modification workmanship will be judged. Poor workmanship will receive a deduction comparable to a Condition discrepancy.

All the stuff above in italics, I have cut and pasted directly from the current JCNA Concours Rule Book. Basically the S3 Class allows you to compete with a highly personalized Jaguar (that is the whole point of S3). In fact the one thing that will disqualify you from S3 is if you DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH point deductions! (And if you show up without a Jaguar engine under the bonnet!) So your modifications CAN be non-authetic; but they can not look like crap.

There is no great mystery about the JCNA Concours. Everything is defined in excruciating detail in the Rule Book:
http://jcna.com/library/concours/Rul...20Contents.pdf

Just read and comply, and you will be a winner.

 

While it may not be 'judged', if your engine is dirty and undetailed people will shrug their shoulders and walk on by - so will any good judge. "You only get one chance at a first impression". If it can be seen or felt - clean it. Feed the leather with a conditioner too. If it smells good it usually looks good.
I did a lot of NCRS (Corvette) shows and even the survivor classes got looked at with very trained eyes to see if patina had been 'added'.
Do not slather your tires with shinny goop. That screams amateur. Do not BS a judge or anyone in your class. Tell only things you know are fact and that you can document. People at these types of shows usually know their stuff. Bring any restoration or modification pictures you might have along. If asked how you did something photos are your best friend. Also bring your camera to show us the ribbon we all hope you win!
RB

 

Phil:
Being rather new to this forum and the Jaguar brand, my opinion may not carry much weight. But I must say that every modification I have seen of your car looks to be carried out with great attention to detail. Every photo you have posted of your work looks great. In fact, I cant wait to drive up to little Switzerland in July to get a good look at it first hand, unless I see you at cars and coffee before then. Having the opportunity to have your car judged by people that do this all the time will only make you better. Learn from the experience and then teach it to the rest of us that are too apprehensive to even consider entering our cars in the event......this year. I do have some pointers on the engine detail though. I had some questions about the detailing and found some great help here on the forum. The guys at Pinnacle really helped too. I added some photos that show before and after, it was a piece of cake and about an hour to do.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/d...detail-112688/
Go ahead and enter Phil, I'll be there to cheer you on.

 

Thank you for the shinny goop comment. I hate that stuff and am now trying to convice the wife that rubber should be black, not shinny and sparkley.

 

Oh, I read that. I've already started looking under the bonnet and making plans!! Lol

 

Don't know about judging for competitions but.....

I think the mistake that most make is to slap on lots of product and leave it there, it looks shiny / wet and you can guarantee plenty of it slung up onto your rear quarters, when you move.

Best bet is to apply sparingly with a sponge, allow a few minutes to dry, then buff to a matt sheen that is clean and looks the way tyres should...IMO of course

 

I did know about the 4 different listings in special division and I'm an S3 entry. It's quite a lengthy book but once I figured out what applied to me it was more clear. My confusion came more from a fellow JCNA member/judge that started telling me all the things that were wrong with my modifications when in fact, he was completely wrong! I have filled out my entry paperwork and just making sure I'm ready before I send it in.

 

If I ever use tire shine, I usually wipe it off with a dry cloth after applying. I hate shiny but I do like the deep black. I NEVER use it inside the car. Wen I clean my interior, I usually use a damp cloth with warm water and a bit of leather soap the dry it also. I'll probably do the same on the engine. After looking at it today, it looks pretty darn clean!! I need to find the screw covers for my shock mounts.

 

So now I have all my info, read the book twice, looked under the bonnet and found a pretty clean engine so I'm entering. After next week, I've got tons of time to finish up everything and work on cleaning but being a daily driver, I'll leave the biggest jobs for the week before.
Not worried about my mods, just want to get the details flawless!!

 

A healthy dose of this will make your Jag's leather smell factory new!

 

My leather is brand new!! I love getting in after its been closed up overnight. And the seats are so firm with the added foam.
Ill pick some up for cleaning. Want to keep them new!!

 

These concours type things have always struck me as just a bit over the top for the tea and crumpets crowd. Folks with too much money and too much time on their hands. My dad once had a 1953 Rolls RHD that was in pretty decent shape which he drove on weekends here in LA. Once a year there was some car day at Santa Anita Race Track where those who paid could have their cars on display in an area near the track. He would always bring his car for fun (not entered in any judging) but I would always see the cars that won various concours awards, one of which was the son of a friend of his. I forget what the car was but I remember it being impeccable--he won numerous times. But it was extremely time and money consuming to get the car into the shape he had it and, of course, at that point you never really drive it. That level of competition was often decided by inspecting trim screws for authenticity and proper alignment. I am more impressed by a nice car in decent condition that is actually driven versus one of those concours queens where all it mostly takes is huge resources of disposable income and time.

Doug