I wasn't sure I wanted to share my little experience with my independent mechanic recently, but after some research on my own, I've decided to ask the question to those with some wrench turning experience.

I go into my shop that I have used for the last couple years, first they did a fantastic alignment ($130) that has held up for many months, and it is perfect in every way (tire wear and direction) so I plan on using them again for that. They also diagnosed and repaired my power steering fluid leak that occurred several months ago, charging a bit over $350 for the time and a few small parts. No biggee, I thought I had ruined my power steering pump.

A couple months ago, I stop by to have the take a look at my gear selector, as they thought my symptoms over the phone were classic of the neutral-safety switch getting quirky, and after 15 minutes and 50 or so starts, he said he got it do it a couple times, so he was confident it was the N-S switch. After getting the $650 estimate in writing, I told him that I would wait on that repair, since it was intermittent, and I knew the workaround to correct, that was alot of money for me at the time.

So, I drop by (unanounced) this last Tuesday morning, to see if they could diagnose my passenger side rear wheel noise, as I had narrowed it down to either bearings or a u-joint - the wheel makes alot of racket over small bumps, and has incredible amount of play in the hub in the 12-6 :00 direction (the noise). He immediately tells me he doesn't want to look at it, because they spent all the time diagnosing my switch and I never came in to get it fixed. I was like .... what!!? I told him why I didn't pay for the switch replacement, that I have gotten two previous repairs/work done in the past, and I have never wasted his time by 'shopping' his prices before, and that I intend on getting my wheel fixed by them. I was getting pretty heated...I mean, this is the business, you diagnose, estimate, and hope they agree to the services and charges, right? I do this all the time in my line of work, we prepare paper proposals with a defined scope of work, and here is our fees...if they accept, great...if not, well I can't control that. I was getting a little pissed after this, and almost walked on out.

I sensed perhaps he was having a personal issue, maybe he was just taking it out on me. He says 'are your keys in it?" I say "yes", and he takes it around to have it looked at. 45 minutes later, he comes out and begins to tell me this...

1) Right front steering tie rod end, dealer would want $1500 for a new steering rack, but he may be able to get a part for the s-type, $150. (first, I didn't even complain about the front, there's no noise or indication it is bad)

2) Both rear inner, and outer bearings were bad on both sides - $300 in parts, and 5 hours labor each side. (looking at the jaguar parts diagram, it shows 3.0 hours for R&R for all parts)

... total $1,200 plus tax (and no written estimate, just some typing on the calculator)

What I am asking is, do you think this guy is trying to punish me for not choosing to spend the money on the N-S switch by charging some extra labor here?

I'm real close to taking my business farther north if this is the way I'm going to be treated. I just got the feeling like if I bring my car in to have it looked at, i can't decline to have it repaired at a later date.

 

Take your business elsewhere. It sure sounds to me like he's trying to teach you a lesson. So teach him one and find another mechanic.

 

I know the feeling. My XKR over heated 5yrs ago (XKR 2001 33K) classic thermostat needed. So I called my local Jag dealer. They said bring it in and we will fix it. When I got the bill it was $350 !! .

I questioned why so much and the reply was : we charge an hour labor ($145) to diagnose the problem and hour labor to fix ($145) Note you undo 3 bolts and a hose clip and drain a little coolant + $56 part + tax. The same dealer charged my friend $80 for an oil change!! and that was with a $40 discount voucher. They also wanted to change the water pump which would have been another $450.

Since then I have bought the CD JTIS and have done everything myself. This has saved at least $7000 in parts and labor. I can just never trust any dealer with any of my cars in general they are dishonest and over charge for parts and labor.

They quoted me $1200 for a brake job, $2000 to change just the secondary tensioners, $900 for a transmission fluid change. They wanted $2420 for 4 O2 sensors and $600 to change them. I know this because every time I do one of these jobs I call my dealer to get a quote. Makes doing the work yourself so much more satisfying.

Re the water pump + gaskets, I just bought one on eBay metal impellers including next day FedEx shipping for $52. I will change that this weekend (mine has the old plastic impellers but works fine so this is just cos I have nothing better to do) and the job takes me about an hour. Note I need to clean the front of the engine cos the Jag dealer that changed the thermostat spilled coolant all down the front of the engine and it has stained the aluminum timing chain covers. Lazy *** mechanic could even be bothered to drain a little fluid and probably did the job when the coolant was still hot!!

 

I use a local tech in an independent service agency (that is highly touted by other Jag owners over the local dealer.) He is also a part owner of the business.

So far, I have found him very open to diagnosis - and conversation with an otherwise non-technical owner (me!), who reads the forums and has suggestions.

However, I usually go there by appointment, and for something routine (oil change), and then I bring up "Please look at this, and that, and what do you think about this?"

The one time I had to be towed in (fuel pump), we already had a routine appointment that week, and he rearranged jobs to take care of my emergency.

I think this cuts both ways. DaleD

 

Hey Matt,
At this point, you really need to go elsewhere. You have doubts about this guy, and if things don't go exactly to plan on a repair (and we know that many times they don't) it will immediately magnify those same misgivings about him. It's time to find a different mechanic, and cultivate a solid relationship.
Good luck!
Brian

 

The noise would need to be listened to, then run on the rack with a stethoscope, and check for play. On yours you need alittle play since its not a sealed bearing. And Yes I charge 3 hours per side and recommend an alignment when done too to make sure its still in spec after suspension work.
We a "***********s" though are all crooks that look to over charge everyone we can, replace parts that dont need to be and cant diag our way out of a wet paper bag, we throw parts at cars until something fixes it!!!!
I always charge a checkout fee if no work is done, I can spend time to do diag only (in our case) to have a customer shop us and then find it cheaper, or get us to diag a problem an indy cant, then go back to them for the work. If I didnt get a checkout fee, I would make no money and can easily spend half the day making nothing....I never charge for diag if no diag is needed. Your overheat issue, t stat yes, 1.2/hr.
There are several indy around here that are $80/hr, we're at $120/hr. And the several people I know that work there take the Alldata time and multiply by 150%. Thats puts them right at our effective labor rate of $120....But I kinda like that thinking. If I could do that here, that would be a 50% pay increase to me for each job!!!!
But then again, I work at a "***********" and they steal from us too
***refferances to "***********s" is by no meens tollerated here or apprieciated, either by word and refferance in a round about way, I do it cause its sarcasm. I spend on the avg approx an hour a day helping other Jag owners. When I should be doing work stealing from customers. I have 16 cars right now that need to be done so Im going in saturday(my day off) to work and try to keep MY customers happy so they keep coming back....I meen I think attorneys, wall street and Doctors are crooks too $300/hr +, if they make a mistake I either die, or pay for their mistakes. I pay when I make a mistake, why shouldnt they or anyone else? I have paid for mistakes(except the dying part obviously) from all 3 of these professions. And my dad and uncles are all doctors, my sister in-law is an attorney....was it easy to blanket "EVERYONE" in with a generic statement? yep no matter how correct or incorrect.....ok Iam done. I just get a little po'd on the whole "***********" subject sorry*****

 

Thanks Brutal, the number of hours is what I was trying to get a handle on, or perhaps they add a little to account for difficulty 'pressing' in the bushings. You and other techs have often said that the computer generated 'labor' hours can sometimes be restrictive, and are often on the low end of the time scale, probably assuming you have no issues R&Ring it, every tool you need is sitting next to you, and you won't be called away for a consultation across the shop several times during the process.

Got your PM by the way, and I do appreciate the follow up note.

Simon is new here, and though he is well beyond most of our regular owner's ability to do repairs on their own, I think he still needs to learn the value of the jag techs around here, and appreciate the fact that though you may not ALWAYS need a dealer service call, when you do (and its bound to happen sometime) they are worth every penny spent. Sent you a PM Simon BTW.

Regarding my issue with my indy, after a few days too ponder the situation, I think I'm going to allow him to do the work, give him a chance to prove himself (and correct any misunderstandings and lackluster customer service from my previous visit) and when I pick up my car, and pay the bill, if it shows 5 hours labor each side, I will inquire if the job did indeed take longer than the repair manual outlines, and if so, if he could explain why? If I find his explanation vague and unbelievable, I will inform him that I will be bringing my car to another shop in the future. I'd rather pay $175 for an alignment at my local dealer that has always been straight forward with me on prices and labor, and has always treated me professionally, even after a couple jobs had to be postponed due to a money crunch. Either way, I am going to let him know how disappointed I was with his approach to me, whether it mends fences or makes no difference, I would have felt better for communicating my feelings. (<-- sounds like a girl there)

I do have a backup mechanic, though he's 20 miles away, and nowhere near my family that could pick me up upon my car's dropoff.

 

Don't blame you Brutal. I'm a retired Cop and dislike having general assumptions made about my ethics based on someone's experiance elsewhere that didn't turn out as they may have wished.

As for the original question, I'd never be back there if I had to push the car elsewhere. You're being spanked.

 

I'd drive a LONGGGGGGGGGGGG way for a good mechanic, Dealership or Indi........
Brian

 

Well I just wished the mechanic got the $145 that the dealership here charges customers then perhaps the job would be done correctly. No offence meant to the mechanics its the dealerships I have the problem with. Jaguar make cars we love but mechanically they have design floors. The general owner is old and does not need an engine with plastic parts to save a few grams here and there. Problem is Jag Dealers then take the owners for a ride when it comes to fixing these floors.

So if you do like Jags and you cant do DIY make sure you only own ones that still have warranty.

Oh and as for honesty I remember when my car was under warranty and the CD player gave the old ERR 01 code. I took it to the dealer, they said we changed the CD player and the invoice confirmed that (free under warranty). I got into the car turned it on to drive of the lot and guess what ERR 01. Tech came out and pulled the CD cartridge shook it and ERR 01 was gone. Note it still comes back every so often. When I got home I took a look at the CD player and low and behold it was the same one. They had not changed it but had charged Jaguar for fixing the problem. This Dealer sells 10-15 cars a month and has 3 guys just checking in and out cars for the service department.

There may be good mechanics out there but generally the industry is shady but in these times Doctors/Accoutants/Bankers/Politicians/Cops all fall into the same category, its just life so don't get upset about it people aren't going to change while money is involved.

 

Matt,

Give up with the guy you're with and find yourself a good tree tech.

 

Hey Matt,

I'd be hesitant to give up on the mechanic too because of the convenience and good work done in past. My first instinct would be to go somewhere else, but your later post about giving him 1 more try may be worth a shot. That's usually what I would do, but knowing full well that I have a better chance to get burned than not to. Good luck.

Brutal, very true about making a living and charging for diagnosis. I am in a profession where I need to diagnose and then the people accept the cost to fix or not. It all boils down to the person though. Like you -- if its straight forward and not really diagnostic I am not going to charge someone for it, even thought it is technically still diagnosing and many in my profession probably would. You have to use your discretion and it takes the right person not to abuse diagnosis, labor times, etc. Its stuff like that that give all of the professions mentioned before a bad name, but unfortunately its the people that are either greedy, miserable, and likely both that give the stereotypes.

 

Matt.

Go talk to Lee.
You know I get all my work done at Autobahn Jag, They always go above and beyond.I think you have had good results as well.
As the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for" ...hopefully..lol

Greg.

 

Greg, Lee referred me there... yup.

 

I suggest getting into Alldata and quoting the going rate for the repair they indicate and negotiate from there. If the shop isn't good with it, you can either pay what they want or go elsewhere. A lot of shops can fix hub bearings and such.

 

At our shop we tell people up front that we are charging for diagnosis. As Brutal says, we could spend all day looking at cars for free. As for pricing, we use a combination of flat rate, dealer price, our own experience, and what the traffic will bear. We negotiate within reason. We also need to make enough to pay overhead, expenses, wages and be motivated to continually update our knowledge, skills, and tools. Our hourly rate is about 20% below dealer- we are at a premium price for indies, but we also have the reputation to justify it.
My hat is off to the non pros on this board who tackle some of the problems these cars have- it ain't rocket science but it ain't easy, either. But consider doing 3 cars at once while juggling parts deliveries, phone calls, customers waiting to drop off or pick up cars, and it's 2 o'clock and you haven't had lunch yet. Welcome to my world.

 

hopefully picking up the car by end of the today, we'll see how it goes!

 

LoL...Thanks Matt.

I guess all the shops in town are trying to send you somewhere else..watup with that...Hey Houston's only a 5 hour drive someone down there might service your car.

Greg.

 

Everybody has to make a living, that's the way of the world, and we cannot go round that.

Jaguar Main Agents should be a precious source of expertise to us owners, but we all know that their labour rates are high (how else d they pay for the swanky showrooms !), and because of this, suspicion is aroused.

Jaguar Cars (God bless 'em !) do not help this by charging huge sums for parts that are much cheaper for similar items on other cars, and being very very vague about why one must buy assemblies rather than individual parts, (e.g, suspension ball joints, bushes, arms etc, ). Yet their mechanics work on nothing but Jaguars and are supplied with all the Jaguar service bulletins, so we should be confident in them, so way aren't we ? Well, it comes down in my opinion to the kind of personalities that are working in the dealership, (this applies to any organisation, by the way). The trouble is we can never know what kind of person is in charge of the workshop, and what the "mores" is of the dealership. There is just too much of the bonus culture around, (Wall St and City of London spivs etc), and I am afraid this has rubbed off into too many aspects of life.

I have to say that unless you have a relationship with a mechanic that is on the lines of " tell me what the problem is, and repair it" then book the car in to him on the basis of mutual trust, then it is probably best to pay separately for diagnosis. That way neither side is under any obligation, legal or moral.

One thing I do know is this: People like Brutal are the salt of the earth; wish you were working near me in Crewe !!!

 

I've received two calls from the owner today, and he was very polite and detailed in his conversation.

Car won't be done today, but he did get the inner tie rod from the s-type to fit my car, with a 1" chopped off it.(don't ask how he got that to work) and a re-tooling of the threads.

Bad news, the axle nut on EACH rear wheel stripped upon removal, apparently an aluminum thread insert in a steel nut doesn't always come off w/o permanent damage. And, these axle nuts are what did he call it...british something thread.. anyway, not common, so two new ones being shipped in from New Jersey.