Hello all,

Thanks in advance for all of your help as I yet again start off on the adventure of old Jag ownership. As some you of know early this year I purchased and early build '97 XK8 coupe that had sat for three plus years thinking that I could bring it back from the dead. That sadly was not going to be in the cards and now it is slowly being parted out.

Since I couldn't leave well enough alone I have gone ahead and purchased another 97 coupe. And as an added bonus this one even runs and drives?!? Some details below:

109,000+ miles
some basic service history but no detail
spent a fair chunk of it's life in Ontario Canada but limited winter exposure as the body is surprisingly clean
resprayed paint at least once (cheaply by the amount of overspray and lack of prep showing)
Runs, drives and sits on the highway with no major issues (beyond the trans noises which we can discuss later)

I am in the process of bringing it back to DD status and am hoping your input will save me the worst of the pitfalls of project car scope creep.

So first question: It desperately needed tires that cords weren't showing through and I have never been a fan of the original rims sooo...

245-45-18 Pilot AS3's on new wheels..





Opinions, thoughts, eyes melting out of your heads in horror?

 

After your earlier experience, start at the "pointy end" and work backwards.

Seriously, rims are a big expense so I'd get some new rubber and then work through the potential issues that could run up the bills and stop the DD category before looking at "cosmetic" changes.

Probably not what you want to hear but I've been bitten by a few Jaguars in the past.

Graham

 

Without knowing how much you paid for it there is not a lot to say other than good luck and hope you enjoy it! You obviously wanted one pretty bad.

 

That is a nice looking car. I have the same Pilots and I love them. Hopefully, the "pointy end" doesn't have too many issues.

 

Hi everybody.

Graham, agree fully with the work from the pointy end first thought process... Much better than pushing on the blunt end if it the work doesn't get done. Sadly the rims were already a sunk cost from the first attempt at XK8 ownership so no cost to the balance sheet for this one.

Also glad to hear no horrified cries from the masses concerning the wheel choice. I guessed on them working out as I didn't have a local example to test fit. I am super pleased with the way they look though.

Jim, appreciate the input on the tires as well. I haven't been able to put more than 20 miles on them since the install but with the brief drive so far they are everything I had hoped and more. I have a set already on the Saab and they are fantastic there so I was hoping for the same here.


Some updates from the last few days:

Discount Tire has disappointed me yet again. This is the third car to go in this year and the third one that had to go back the same day with some glaring mistake. This time, three of the four tires on the XK8 were on inside out.. The X-Type was missing the hubcentric rings and two of the directional tires were on wrong. The Saab had the wrong rims installed. Everyone was super nice about the mistakes and they were fixed quickly and at no cost but I think it might be time to start getting the car Butlerized (Butler is a local tire institution) instead.

Anyone have any experience with them or someone else that will work with our older beasts?

Cooling system has been refreshed: Drained the system and ran a Prestone flush for the last four days and today was able to drain it. What came out was foul and required three more runs with clean water before all the ick stopped flowing. New water pump, upper, lower and bypass hoses, new coolant crossover with sensor, and a new serpentine belt went back in. Sadly couldn't get the aluminum tower installed as I wasn't prepared with the correct bent wrench. Bled the system and everything seems ok but I have noticed no change in the Base operating temp. Will continue to bell it over the next few days and also check that I didn't introduce any new leaks.

Question: At 90F ambient I am still getting to 206F - 217F via OBDII / Torque. Is this normal? Most of the other posts discussing this say closer to 200 is normal and my experience with other vehicles (the Saabs especially) have the temps closer to 195F. Any thoughts?

Thanks all!

 

Rothwell, thank you, appreciate the support ! I did want one badly, so much so now I have two... But I can think of much less attractive yard art in the meantime.

 

 

No cries of shock horror from me either. I do like the plum red colour, too.

Put the electronics modules into your 'must keep' stash- particularly the 97 ECM. Most things can be repaired or have engineering workarounds, but unless/until/even if Denso/Jaguar release the internal workings of them into the public domain then repair or replacement will get more and more difficult with time. You can't 3D print these.

...or maybe Heritage will pick up the ball.

Best of luck.

P.S. A bit OT but what killed the other cat?

 

Charlie, thanks for the input on the temps that you are seeing. After driving the car today running errands and buzzing up the highway for a half hour or so, I am close to the same medians that you mention. Also after reading some the Jag wrangler posts that lead to real gauges, his numbers were similar as well. I think that I will simply keep an eye on it through Torque and if any radical changes pop up go from there. I am trying desperately to not do what I normally do and scope creep my projects. Cooling systems are one of those things that I will happily tear completely down, spend a fortune only to prove that everything was fine.

Michael, thank you as well for the thoughts on the wheels as well as the suggestions to keep the modules, I hadn't thought of that and would have hated to send it away and be stuck later. The colour is a close approximation of the factory burgundy that the previous owner had Maaco or some other cheap and cheerful shop do. Its a great ten foot job only though.

Also no worries on asking about the death of the first cat. Purchased it completely with my heart and not my brain as running-ish but within 2 weeks realized that I was in over my head. Transmission lost reverse completely with any heat in the box, running for more than 30 mins and Drive started to fail, timing chains had only had one (?!) secondary tensioner done and everything else was coming apart. Clear coat had collapsed on every surface and a respray was mandatory. AC has also failed completely. That and a pile of other undone maintenance against the purchase price of the new one that actually ran and was a much better starting point made sacrificing the first attempt a more logical (maybe??) choice. Now I also have a parts car to work from. Hoorah....

 

As you no doubt know by now there is so much you can do on these cars, and I am not talking 'Modding' but purely maintenance. If the car is up and running that is always a good start.

What you do to yours is obviously 100% up to you but one of the very first things I would do is change ALL the fluids. Engine Oil, Clutch fluid, Steering Fluid, Dif oil. Just to name some. As your car is getting a little older I would also change the gearbox (or whatever you call it in the states) oil and have that serviced. There are a lot out there that offer an oil 'transfusion' They leave the cover on and basically just do an oil change. But this leaves and gunk, metal filings, clogged filters etc in there. A good service shop that specializes in gearbox works can remover and change the cover/filter quickly and easily. Despite the retaining screws being rusted in and distorted, I bet yours are.

One mod I would recommend above all the others is change the Headlight Beams to HID. This really transforms your night time driving. Wish I had done it when I first got the car.

If you ever have a few days to spare or want a bit of light night time reading take a look at my thread, all the above items are on there. https://www.jaguarforum.com/showthread.php?t=75123

Enjoy your new toy. Good luck!!

FrankC

 

FrankC, thanks for the advice and 100% agree that getting the car to baseline again makes very good sense. I have gone ahead and taken care of the cooling system (well had until today as you may have seen on my other post...), pulled the pan on the transmission, scraped out a very concerning pile of metal filings, ran two courses of fluid through and went after the other cheap and cheerful maintenance items (air, oil and fuel filters, oil change). Surprisingly the trans pan bolts came out with zero issues!?! I suspect that the pan was dropped at some point in the recent past?

The diff, brake and steering fluids are farther down the list but still very much priorities before she starts commuting each day. One thing I am looking to do soon is get the VVTs out and peek into the timing chain and see if I have a bigger project to push up the list.

The HIDs are on order as I spend most of my days in the mountains north of the city and spotting critters is of the highest priority.

 

Really, I've seen some really fuzzy trans pan magnets on transmissions that shifted great before and shifted great for years and many miles after the fluid change. I remember when I took my transmission classes (Comp Sci but they made sense as electives more than most crap), the transmission rebuilders recommend never changing fluid to fix any performance issues. If the car is great and nothing funky, you're probably good. If the car has had regular fluid changes, and you change it, it's probably good. However, using a transmission fluid change to try to stop say, a hard shift or slipping, is really just shortening the life. Sometimes the friction material in the fluid is HELPING things; but obviously by that time, it's a lost cause and needs a rebuild.

Basically, if it shifted well before and the fluid wasn't burnt, you have a good change that nothing really of concern is going to happen. Of course, your mileage may literally vary.

Are there any specific interior/electrical/other parts you need? I actually have a lot of not perfect, but free, parts I would donate to this. I have a radio that works perfectly, but the display doesn't work except when really cold (most likely opening and investigating connectors and solder would work, but I got a mint radio for $80). I have some wood and other trim, etc.

 

Hi everybody!

Well as you may have seen in my other post, I have had some cooling issues to solve... Spent the weekend cleaning up the mess that a split return line from the coolant tank created.



All four plug bores were full to the brim as was the valley of the motor. I went ahead and cleaned everything up while leaving the coils in rice after a through water rinse.

Swapped both crossover coolant lines for solid rubber, new hose clamps, new coolant tank and cap. I hope that this gets me through the next few weeks with limited issues.

Also spent 30 seconds putting new hood struts on. It's really nice when that little effort makes it that much safer and nicer to work under the hood (even if it hinges from the wrong end . I make that joke now only to know that the octopus is in my future...

This incident also leads to my next post that I am hoping to get some help with.

 

Since I had the issue with the coolant and I also have some transmission noise that is concerning I decided to drop the car with an expert to double check me and give some pointers. Enzo's was highly recommended and I thought that I would give them a try. Everyone was super nice, the bit of work they did was done in a day for a reasonable price and they were very tolerant of my ridiculous list of questions.

My question comes from this: they are saying the engine of my car was swapped at some point with what they believe to be a full factory / warranty replacement?!? A replacement that seems new enough to have the upgraded timing parts so post what, 01 or 02?

I have reached out to Jag NA and they can't seem to find any service records for it (like at all? which was as confusing for them as it was for me). The dealers up in Ontario were awesome about some dumb American calling them to ask if they had anything but no luck there either.

Any thoughts on why the motor would have been swapped (I assume Nikasil or a failed timing chain) but would love to hear your theories as well. Thanks all.

 

The engine number will give the first clue to a rebuild or a replacement. The number is the date and time the unit came off the production line. For example, my 2001 XK8 engine number was NB0108171611. Ignore the first two lettters and this decodes as YYMMDDHHMM or 2001/Aug/17th/16:11.

A rebuild (such as for Nikasil) would retain the original engine number and have an additional "Genuine Jaguar Exchange Product" green tag but this often goes missing. The Nikasil rebuilds just went back into the replacement parts chain and NOT into the original vehicle. A rebuild for a failed timing chain would not have any additional markings.

Graham

 

It should be possible to get a copy of the build sheet for comparison (which records the original engine #) via the dealership. However, if the techs are convinced it's a replacement then I guess they have found the green tag as AFAIK there isn't much else to distinguish - other than the actioning dealership's history.

Picture of the tag in the post by Two jags here:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...20/#post247159

Not necessarily. My car had a replacement motor fitted very early 2004 and it does have metal-bodied tensioners, but I've read of remans fitted as recently as 2002 that didn't (alluded to in the above thread). Lifting a cam cover is the only way to be sure.

I wonder if any motors were exchanged just because of bore wash