Ok, this may be a really dumb question, but I have read in this forum that these cars, mine is a 1999 XK8, should not be driven short distances without being fully warmed up. Cylinder wash, flooding, etc....

What about moving the car out of the garage to the driveway to wash it and then back in again when you are done? I know this is the ultimate short trip, but do I really have to warm it up fully, i.e. equivalent of 10 miles driving just to accomplish this???

Don't want to screw anything up, but hey.....

 

The early cars, including a '99, has a built in fuel management problem. Numerous folks have experienced loss of compression due to the oil wash issue often when just moving the car in the driveway.

Personally, I do not think that you need to drive 10 miles but around the block wouldn't hurt. These cars are designed to warm up quickly.

 

I fully agree with Tom (TestPoint)!

 

If the car has had the throttle body replaced under warranty/TSB, would this still be a factor? I guess I am asking if this is a flaw in a part or a flaw in the basic design?

Or, as we often say in the computer field, its not a bug, its a feature. Its behaving exactly as we designed it.

 

Fuel in the cold cylinder walls is the problem along with the known problems with many on the Nikasil Eng. The suggestion of driving it to get the engine to the proper operating temperature is a good suggested practice. Now could this be a problem with your car? Our suggestion to run the car to operating temperature is only to prevent you from experiencing this not uncommon problem related to your model / year car. If you need additional information on the washed cylinders and nikasil go to my page. I have done extensive work in researching this problem only because I experienced it firsthand several times.

 

Thats the connection I missed, this is related to the Nikasil engines. Interesting thing - and leads me to a whole nother place (sorry for just continuing this thread, but hey I am here)

I have actually been trying to confirm if I have the original (Nikasil) engine in the car or if it is a replacement. Through Jaguar, they will only give me work history that was done under warranty and there is no record of a warranty replacement.

However, the previous owner did state to me that he knew that it was a steel lined engine and that all the tensioners and chains had been done. However, there was no documentation of either provided. I should probably state that I bought the car from the owner of a well known Jaguar restoration shop who told me he bought the car from a client when the cam chain failed and they sold him the car as is. He then fixed it as an internal job - hence no paperwork, however I do trust him on his word and it was also confirmed by my local shop when I had the valve cover gasket replaced since it was leaking a bit on the 350 mile drive home from buying the car.

So, I have been trying to confirm his other statement, that this is a steel lined engine. I posted a different thread about a week or so ago asking for help finding the engine number, since I cannot see any numbers on a raised pad anywhere on the front of the engine, the location that is generally described. It looks to me like the block is painted silver, which I have read is normally a replacement engine. I have seen pictures of a steel tag that comes on replacements, but there was a note on the pic that these commonly go lost... So if the engine was replaced post warranty, it would fit with what I know. If it is the original, the prior owner was mistaken or I misunderstood. Both possibilities.

No idea how he ascertained it was a steel lined engine. Would he have been able to tell a Nikasil engine from a replacement when doing the cam chains? Supposedly upper and lower tensioners and all cam chains were replaced. If I could find the engine number, I would know for sure. Or is the absence of an engine number any indication?

And if it is a steel lined engine, do I have to be as concerned with the cylinder wash issue? (getting back on thread subject...lol)

Thanks!

 

Your engine regardless of who replaced it should have a serial number, the question is where is it and what is it going to tell you. Any good garage is going to be able to find an engine number. Now as for the washed cylinder walls! I know of 3 times that a non nikasil engine did not start that was started with oil being added to each cylinder. Rare but true! Each time it was said that the car was started and then shut off. This is why I tell others when the car does not start and you have spark and fuel try adding a little oil to the cylinders. Not everyone has this problem but if they do this will help. I am not nikasil crazy it just looks that way!

 

This issue is that a result of sulphur in the fuel? I know BMW had some similar problems with their Nikkasil V8 engines. They changed too Alusil which resolved this matter. If it is the sulphur creating the problem, do you guys know if this problem is present in Europe? BMW did not have this problem in Europe as far as I know, since the fuels contain no sulphur or a lot less at least.

Cheers, Jarle

 

From reading the forum posts I draw the conclusion that the larger problem was in Europe, or at least the UK prior to the dramatic reduction in sulfur in fuel. That occurred about the year 2000.

 

My guess is a lot of Jaguars are sold in the UK? Like Volvo's and even Saab in Sweden. They are everywhere.

This is what I found on the BMW Nikkasil issue:
"In short, high sulphur fuel. Contrary to popular belief, the “Nikasil issue” does not only affect the USA. It is potentially in existence in all countries, but is a particular problem in the UK and the US. It would appear that Nikasil-lined blocks were not tested with fuels that had a high sulphur content, which was unfortunate because the chemical reaction between the sulphur in the fuel and the nickel lining in the block which damaged the hard nickel lining. Once the lining is damaged, excessive bore wear of the soft underlying alloy occurs very quickly. Some Nikasil engines have failed in as little as 30,000 miles.

Fuel high in sulphur was imported into the UK and (apparently in very small amounts only) into continental Europe. The problems occurred first with cheap (supermarket) fuel in the north west of the UK, although in time the whole of the UK was affected - and it was no longer just supermarket petrol that was causing problems. Having said which a vehicle run only on good quality fuel which was low in sulphur would not have problems, but there was no way the consumer could know which fuel to buy. There do appear to be quite a few Nikasil-engined vehicles which, either through luck in the fuel used or some other mysterious reason, appear to be absolutely fine even after very large mileages."

I also have an Italian car bug, so I've had a few Maseraties and I still own one with a 100% aluminum nikkasil engine. Took it apart last year after 100 000 miles. The Nikkasil liners where perfect, close to no wearing edge at all.

The BMW case sounds really quite similar I think?

Cheers, Jarle

 

The question was “Is it safe to move the car out of the garage?” If it is Nikasil I would drive it to get the temperature up to normal. If it is NON Nikasil I would be cautious, I know of 3 instances that washed cylinders caused by not bringing the engine up to normal temperature. As for the history of Nikasil you can read about it on my page.

 

The reason why I chimed in here Gus, is that I have not heard from any of the Norwegian experts about this problem. I am merely wondering wether this is something I need to think about, or if it is the same for the Nikkasil BMWs running in Norway. They never had this issue here, in UK and US however there have been plenty.

Can the problem happen as a result of a one time incidence, or will it happen if it is repeated several times?

Cheers, Jarle

 

I think to summarize what has been posted here...

1. There is no statistical number to provide you that it will happen to your car
2. Nikasil lined engines are more prone to the phenomenon than steel lined
3. Gus has heard of a few instances where steel lined engines DID behave badly on a start and cold shutdown
4. BMW vs Jaguar powerplants are different designs, and I think although similar in their historic lining material, that's as far as we should compare the two and not make any other common comparisons on how they may react to operating and not fully warming up before shutdown.

Good thread guys. I may FAQ it.

 

Gus & Matt!

I've read a bit more on your page Gus, and it does seem that this problem has been much smaller in Norway, since we never had fuel with a lot of sulphur here. Very informative page.. I might do a leakdown and compression test to see what I come up with.

Now I've got a question, my car is going in for the throttlebody change in december. Does this have anything to do with this flooding problem, or is a remap the only remedy for not flooding the engine? Did Jaguar ever come up with a software fix for the flooding when cold?

Cheers, Jarle

Cheers, jarle

 

First of all the term flooding is not a term I would be using to address this problem, washing is what I and Jaguar calls it. And I am unable to answer your question on the Throttlebody change or remapping. I am not an expert in this area and I am sure you do not want me to tell you an untruth.

 

My thoughts are that it was a Nikasil issue compounded by a ECM issue running the engine too rich when cold. Or . . . it could have been just a running the engine too rich with no connection to Nikasil.

The Service Action dates would seem to support an ECM issue since Nikasil was not eliminated until the next model year.

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

Sorry, for asking so many questions
Thanks for helping me fill out the blanks!

Cheers, Jarle

 

Sounds logical Test.. Running an engine too rich will in the long run wear too much on the rings and liners. I can imagine that running rich when filling gas with a high sulphur content will worsen the matter a lot. Esp. if you do stop and go running and leave the liners drenched in the acidic fuel.

It surely does sound to be a result of a badly mapped ECM and matters beeing made worse by the liners beeing Nikkasil. And when you add high suplhur content in the fuel on top of this, you have a problem. I can imagine this happening on engines with different liners as well, though maybe not as frequent or as serious.

May I ask what sort of ECM the XK8 is running? I have done a fair bit of ECM mapping myself, so am a bit curious.

Cheers, Jarle

 

It is manufactured by Bosch but I don't have the number without pulling the unit. It uses the Bosch CAN technology most likely the same as the BMWs.

Several have tried to remap the unit for more power without much success. Seems that Jaguar engineers got that pretty much optimal.

 

My car has been chip tuned, I have asked them what they managed to get out of it. Hoping I'll get an answer tomorrow or next week. Hoping to get a proper printout with graphs and everything..

Found a receipt in the car after I bought it.

Cheers, Jarle