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Secondary Timing Chain Tensioners vs. Complete Timing Overhaul

XK8 / XKR ( X100 ) 1996 - 2006

Secondary Timing Chain Tensioners vs. Complete Timing Overhaul

 
  #41  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:43 PM
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I want to emphasize what is mentioned in the previous post.
Loosening and removing the crankshaft bolt is a heavy job, and you need the proper tool to hold the damper. You will be pulling firmly on a three foot breaker bar extension/pipe.
The tools for locking the flexplate or camshafts are not up to the task. Don't even try.
Using anything other than the proper tool here will just cost you more time and money.
In the thread of my timing chain replacement, I have a picture of the tool braced against the body with a piece of wood. This worked well. I highly recommend it.
With the proper tools, this is no big deal. Keep it that way.
Buy or rent the tool. It's cheaper than a new, or rebuilt, damper, or worse. This is no time to try to engineer a way to save a dollar and cost yourself $1000.
Christopher's Foreign Car Parts in Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey will hook you up.
 
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  #42  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:13 AM
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I fully agree with Greg. Nothing else should be used, primarily or as secondary support, to hold the crankshaft except for the holding tool firmly attached to the damper hub. I mentioned aligning the cams as a matter of convenience for myself to have everything close when I get to the next steps of the chain alignment and to confirm that my chains have not skipped a tooth. With two tools of that extended length working against each other, there is a LOT of pressure going in and other parts would quickly break up. If you can mount the tool against a firm body part like Greg did, that works fine. Somehow my situation did not line up as well (Didn't really try that hard to create that set up) and I was fortunate to find the pipes I needed in my local Home Depot scrap bin since I was going by there anyway. The right tools are always preferred.
Mark
 
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  #43  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:31 AM
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Should there be something that plugs either the viewing hole down next to the crankshaft positioning sensor, or the opening on the other side of the flywheel housing? I'm open on both sides and am feeling a bit naked.
Mark
 
  #44  
Old 03-13-2019, 06:41 PM
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There is a curvy rectangularish rubber plug about 2 inches by 3 inches to view the holes on the flexplate. Most of the holes in the flexplate are square but the one that fits the tool is oval. Unfortunately you can't see the oval one as it's approaching the proper position, but you get a nice view of it just after it went too far. Great placement of the hole by Jaguar.
This is the one man version of this task: With the plug out, just watch the flats on the cams as you rotate the crankshaft. When the flats on the cams are close to parallel, stop and check the flexplate. Move the crankshaft as little as possible and check the flexplate again. Realize you went too far and go around again. After a few times, you'll see the oval hole coming into position. Use a screwdriver through the hole to get the flexplate in the perfect position.
 
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  #45  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:06 AM
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Yeah, that rectangularish rubber plug (Perfect description :-)) is what I'm looking for. Now how to search for that in the suppliers catalogs?
 
  #46  
Old 03-15-2019, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Nemesis435 View Post
Yeah, that rectangularish rubber plug (Perfect description :-)) is what I'm looking for. Now how to search for that in the suppliers catalogs?
My 98 stone guard was missing. Part is NLA. I found one used.
 
  #47  
Old 03-21-2019, 07:47 AM
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I've got everything out, cleaned up, new parts received, still waiting for the Damper pully to be completed and returned (actually still on schedule) and am ready to start reassembling. My Bank B chain guide was completely disintegrated and the primary tensioner plunger is stuck fully retracted in the housing. Otherwise everything else was in good shape. To take back my earlier comment about Mobile 1 oil, the secondary tensioners that I installed 10 years and 40,000 miles ago look like I installed them yesterday. No wear and bright and shiny. Not a spot of grime or crud on them. Pretty amazing.

But a thought occurred to me. How do you tighten the Damper bolt without turning the engine over? As was stated a few times here, that bolt was a bear to turn out even after it initially broke free. It will be pretty much equally hard to thread it back in, and with the pully not on a positioning key, the crankshaft will turn with the bolt. What's the best way to lock the crankshaft so the bolt can be screwed in and tightened to spec?
Thanks,
Mark
 
  #48  
Old 03-21-2019, 08:14 AM
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Use the same tool that you used to remove the crankshaft bolt. Just have the tool laying over to the driver's side and use a torque wrench instead of a breaker bar.

Here is the tool.

This is removal of the crankshaft bolt. For installation, lay the tool to the driver's side.
 
  #49  
Old 03-21-2019, 08:34 AM
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stu46h, I think Nemesis435 was pointing out that the tool engages with the pulley, but the pulley won't be engaged with the crankshaft until the bolt tightens it up.

If it was keyed then there would be engagement right away, but without a key it's a chicken and egg problem: you can't tighten the bolt without firm engagement of the pulley, but you can't get firm engagement of the pulley without tightening the bolt.
 
  #50  
Old 03-21-2019, 12:39 PM
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Volkris,
You are exactly right. Nothing on the crankshaft for the tool or pully to grip onto. I'm thinking about getting a long bolt with the same thread as a spark plug and running it down whichever cylinder is on the compression stroke so the piston stops the rotation, but would this damage that piston or anything else?
Mark
 
  #51  
Old 03-21-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Nemesis435 View Post
Volkris,
You are exactly right. Nothing on the crankshaft for the tool or pully to grip onto. I'm thinking about getting a long bolt with the same thread as a spark plug and running it down whichever cylinder is on the compression stroke so the piston stops the rotation, but would this damage that piston or anything else?
Mark
If you do this send me a PM. I have a spare engine and you will need it

Do as Stu said. Bolt the tool to the the damper. Rotate the damper and tool to the right, lt will turn easily on the crankshaft unless you already tighten the damper bolt. Rest the arm of the tool on the drivers side frame, US model. Then torque the bolt to the specified torque. As the tapered wedge is tightened it will hold the damper so it will not spin.

Remember the damper has nothing to do with the timing so it doesn't matter what position it is in relationship to the crankshaft.
 
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  #52  
Old 03-21-2019, 03:09 PM
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Nemesis, sounds like you're not getting enough 'bite' on the pulley collet to stop the crank rotating as you try to tighten up the crank bolt - or am I reading this wrong?
Like occasionally happens fitting items like new track rod ends and there's not enough grip on the taper to hold the pin while tightening the retaining nut.

If so, you should be able to get the pulley/collet to catch by tapping the pulley (gently) home using a suitable hammer and large socket to clear the end of the crank if necessary.
 
  #53  
Old 03-21-2019, 06:42 PM
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Are you saying that the tool will hold the damper, but the crankshaft will spin with the bolt?
I haven't gotten to that point yet, but I'll see what happens.
I'm with Michael, I'll try tapping the damper onto the crankshaft if I have to.
 
  #54  
Old 03-21-2019, 07:58 PM
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Guys,
I'm anticipating that the crankshaft will spin while holding the damper. I'm not there yet either, but I did play with the bolt and it grabs tight pretty quickly while only a few threads in. I'd be surprised if tapping the damper and collet will provide enough grab on that crankshaft, but I'm willing to see what happens. Can't really hurt anything in trying that I can see.

Greg,
I'm still a few days from that point as I do not have anything assembled and am still waiting for my damper to be rebuilt and returned. Let us know what you find it you are close to trying it.
Mark
 
  #55  
Old 03-21-2019, 08:49 PM
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The tools should arrive tomorrow and if the one for the VVT unit fits, I'll be putting everything back together.

I got lots of black gunk off the sump.

I just threw that picture in here because if felt like it. That area was nasty.

The manual addresses the problem of torquing the crankshaft bolt.
It says not to use the crankshaft setting peg here and to install the crankshaft locking tool on the damper.
It says to use a lever against one torque converter boss if needed.
I interpret that as I'm going to need to do this.
So I'll be installing the tool on the damper, removing the crankshaft setting peg and working through the warped rectangularish rubber plug next to it.
Does that sound like what they're saying?
 

Last edited by stu46h; 03-21-2019 at 09:05 PM.
  #56  
Old 03-23-2019, 12:14 PM
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Greg,
Wow, is your engine CLEAN!!!

I do think that what you said about the tools is correct. Looking forward to hear how it goes. Most interested in how you position a lever.

I have my new chains and tensioners on and am about to pull the locks off and button up the cover. I had been applying some force to the cams early on to position them and believe I may have been pushing piston into valves, or visa versa, perhaps more than I wanted to. I'm going to check some valve clearances first to see if they are all closing completely. I hope I didn't bend any in the process (Yikes!) If good, I'll follow up with some compression testing on one cylinder in particular (Bank B, #3)
Mark
 
  #57  
Old 03-24-2019, 09:17 AM
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I released the locking tools and checked a few tappet clearances. The ones in question seem to be in line with the others. I then did a compression check on 4 cylinders by hand turning the crank by the bolt partly turned in. Spark plugs out, of course. The cylinder in question came up with 50 PSI as did another, while two more read just under 60 PSI. Considering this engine hasn't run in over a month, and the relatively slow rate of rotation, requiring ratcheting the wrench back and forth to turn the engine, I think I'm OK. Going to start buttoning it up and then drop the pan for cleaning. Still awaiting return of my damper.
Mark
 
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  #58  
Old 03-27-2019, 08:14 PM
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Please tell me about how you torqued the bolt in the center of the VVT unit.
Did you use the tool from the timing kit on the VVT unit for the 30 foot pounds AND for the additional 90 degrees?
It seems to me that the tool won't stand up to the final torque.
 
  #59  
Old 03-28-2019, 06:52 PM
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Greg,
I used a large torque wrench and brought them up to 81 lbs. Was holding the secondary sprocket with the tool from Chris, and the cams were locked down. Pretty straight forward.
Mark
 
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:06 PM
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Greg,
I just came across your other thread about the timing chains. Looks like you have a different set up than I have. I have a 1997 car while yours is a 2001. I didn't need a tool for the VVT's, just the secondary gear which I believe is the same one you got. With this, I just put the gear tool on, put the hex key into the center bolt and torqued them down all the same way - VVT's and secondary gears.
Mark
 

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