I am doing a bit of a refurb on my 2005 XKR drivers side suspension and new wheel bearings.

i have the hub off but hitting an issue with the upper wishbone. How hard I hit it the fulcrum bolt will not come out. The nut I is off but the bolt is frozen in. You can hardly move the upper wishbone. Any advice on how to remove? Hard to get heat into the middle section as the current bushes look ok so I do not want to replace if not needed.

thanks in advance

 

Fairly common in the 'saltier' climes

See this thread from Jag1968:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...7/#post1658451

Lots of pictures & advice, together with a link to another similar thread..

Expect to have to replace at least the bushings and, possibly, the fulcrum bolt.

Good luck!

 

Frozen huh?.....well....penetrating oil and time, plus trying to rotate the bolt may work. However, I doubt the bushings are worth savings since the inner sleeve is corroded so replacing the bushings is likely....put some heat to it.
I had a lot of trouble on that bolt when I did the bushings of my '06 XK8....I ended-up getting a new bolt...which by-the-way....are not cheap!

 

+1

The bushes will be shot and you are likely to need a new fulcrum bolt too.

Graham

 

IF the bolt has moved some distance before seeming to seize, and rotates freely, then it is likely getting stuck on one of the washers that are inside the rubber lip. Those steel washers are very close tolerance in size to the bolt and thick enough that they can "dig in" to the bolt if the get cocked. This has happened to me twice. In my case both times it was the inside washer on the side farthest from the bolt threads, the one under the lip of the rubber. The binding on the fulcrum pin was relieved using a chisel/hammer applied to the edge of the washer that is binding. Distorting the shape of that offending washer will free it up.

Here is a pic of where to put the chisel. And what a non-distorted washer looks like.

 

Side engineering question if anyone knows: Why are those washers made with such tight tolerance? Are they trying to seal crud out of the tube bits?

 

That would be my guess as well. Needs to be close then the grease inside can "seal the deal".

Worth noting that when I replaced the original bushings at about 50K they were dry as toast inside. When I replaced them a 2nd time at 100K they were still nice and greasy because I packed them with copper grease. I think very little lube was used at the factory.

It helps to be very liberal with the copper grease when assembling. The flimsy grease they are shipped with is not sufficient.

 

Maybe a dumb question,,,, but did you split the upper ball joint? Remove the wheel well liners for a ton more room? Heat (carefully)? Try dynamite? Sometimes banging on the washer area with a ball ping helps,,, get them spinning.

Having room to move the upper arm the complete distance of its travel can help...

It is sooooo frustrating,,, I know. And bad for knuckles.
Good luck...

 

Also,,, with the liners removed, I remember it helping me to yes, split the ball joint,,, get everything out of the way, and then reconnecting the ball joint,,,, jack the suspension assembly thru various heights and weights with a hammer and taps. Because of the rubber, and all those damn separate moving bits,,, it's just what is needed to free up that one or two washers, sleeeves and rubber bits,,, to get things freed up.

 

I had forgotten about those thin washers!....yep they will bind the bolt from moving. I think I destroyed one of them.

 

If it is binding in the crossbeam, you might try penetrating oil and an impact gun to spin the bolt and see if it frees up some.

If the bushings are trying to rotate, you may assume those steel sleeves and washers may be the issue.

Try rotating the bolt and see if the threaded end is slightly bent. I ran into that and posted my experience on January 12, 2020 "upper wishbone, crossbeam reamed and bushed." Had to cut the bolt head off and drive it out backwards. I am both cheap and impatient so made my "improved" replacement bolt.

 

Then this happened



Bolt head snapped off when using a breaker bar to try and move it after penetrating fluid. Have tried heat also but the bolt will not move. Have hit hard many times with a lump hammer. Where should I cut? I’m concerned the bolt will be frozen in the subframe.

 

Those thin washers are actually spacers that adjust the caster. They need to be put back in he same sequence.

 

Mixed blessing (and I'm sure it doesn't feel that way now) because everything that is involved with the bolt and bushings can now be sacrificed...

If you have a sawz all (long metal/hack saw blade),,, run it between the inner bushings and the subframe upright and cut the bolt on both ends. Twist sharp end of blade towards the bush and the control arm.... It'll cut into bush, possibly, which is ok... Maybe have a beer first because frustration can be so HIGH (understandably) at this point that you might not take care. You have to resist the temptation of going hog wild (beer will help here) and NOT shave, cut into, damage the subframe upright. Keep an eye on things, aluminum is very soft compared to everything else in the neighborhood. Some scraping will be unavoidable... After, you should be able to get the upper control off/out and deal with what's left of the bolt in the upper. All is not lost. Fun is,,,, yeah, that's pretty much out the window at this point. Sorry that happened...!

Why are the washery tolerances so tight? Because it's a stupid stupid and horrible design. Horrible. As far as adjustment using the washers,,, horrible,,, and no align-er in their right mind would want to touch the job - rightly. What I understand is that the spacers in washers give very little of any control over alignment - or anything - and it's only effect has been creating alcoholism issues in Jaguar XK owners, globally. That's what I've heard, lol

 

And, I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear right now but,,, if you can, split the ball joint ($10 harbor freight tool) remove the bolt at the base of the shock and the 3 at the top and completely remove... Will give you more room and every inch will count... If it starts to make you suffer when removing it,,, stop, and just lean it side to side. Be careful with brake line and completely unplug the abs sensor at the hub and tuck it away... Yeah Man,,, I know it doesn't feel good to be where you are,,,, at the moment. Remember driving her on a spring day,,,, windows down and people looking at ya - smiling

 

Every nut and bolt has been difficult. What was going to be a simple few days work is dragging on now and the costs keep increasing. Will probably just go all in now. Dry January as well so cannot even resort to a beer.

 

So have the wishbone off by cutting it. The the bolt in the subframe is completely frozen. It will not move when hitting it. Even one of the shims has frozen to the subframe. I tried heating the subframe but not to much as don’t want to damage and it won’t budge when hitting with a lump hammer.

I really do not want to remove the subframe from the car and take it somewhere to drill it out!

any ideas?

 

Angle drills.

Grind bolt ends square and smooth.

optional- I'd use and oxyacetylene torch with welding tip in the bolt ends to get them VERY hot and a touch softer.

locate the center of bolt end and gently tap a center punch in to establish a center hole, increasing force as you may have to redirect it to the middle. I start by using a very light tap to leave just a tiny mark to locate the midpoint, then study it and use it for reference it it needs correcting. One forceful smack off center can lead to an eccentric hole. Eyeballing the middle should be close enough for all practical purposes, but to locate the center accurately, machinists would coat the ends with a dye and use dividers to mark arcs from the outside edge across the middle to locate where the arcs intersect.

If you can, obtain some genuine "thread cutting oil" as it is high in sulphur to weaken the "grain boundaries" between steel grains, so grains rip apart as well as get "sheared."

To carefully start the hole, you might procure some center drills. The center drill is unique in having the starter thread protruding with smaller diameter. It is meant for drilling out "center holes" for engaging a "dead center" or "live center" for machining (live center spins with the part via bearing; dead center is stationary with part spinning on its center hole). Most of my holes made with my drill press start with these for greater accuracy and best starting holes for drill bits to follow. Also, the small tip is backed up by the larger diameter cutter so it is less likely to snap than a thin drill bit, but do not get reckless as that tip can break off in the cut. A series series of center drills would be wise to enlarge the center holes.

I'd start with around 3/16" or 1/4" high quality small diameter drill bits. Much smaller than that raises the odds of breaking a bit, as that one hole needs to go in about 2" deep. Gradually increase in small increments as YOU DO NOT WANT TO BREAK OFF A BIT IN THE HOLE. Don't drill much more than 1/2" depth before pulling out, clearing chips and reoiling. Chips building up in the flutes can sieze the bit or snap it off.

Once the hole is drilled out as large as practical without breaking into the aluminum casting, I'd heat inside of the remaining wall of the bolt and the shank on the inner cavity of the crossbeam with the oxyacetylene torch and welding tip then let it cool and shrink down. The bolt should release from the crossbeam.

Before drifting it out with a punch, you'd probably like to wire brush the exposed bolt shank in the crossbeam.

GOOD LUCK!

 

Rabs, if I can picture it, it sounds like you now have access to an unobstructed stretch of the center of the bolt. If so, I'm going to toss out an idea on the off chance it will save time. Do you have a stillson wrench? Is there enough room for a big one to get a bite on it? A good sized one with an 18 inch handle will give you enormous leverage, the jaws by design wont slip.

Like I said, submitted just in case you didn't think of it and it will fit. I figure if you can get it spinning that'll break the corrosion.

John

Edit: I wonder if that term is ever used outside the states. Googled it: pipe wrench, Swedish wrench, or Swedish Pattern Wrench are synonyms.

 

My response on angle drills was if the bolt is flush with the casting. When I first read this, it carried over to a person that used a sawzall to liberate his wishbone and that gave me the impression there was nothing left to grab onto. If you still have the bolt sticking out (as opposed to ground flush to the casting) you can grab it with a pipe wrench and wrestle with it.


If ir were in my shop, I'd weld a large nut on the end and use an impact gun on it for a while. If the nut was welded on both sides, it would be stronger than the original bolt head. I'd bet my 3/4" impact gun would have enough room (but not the 1"). I also have 3/4" and 1" breaker bars to attack it with.