Your last paragraph certainly rings true and makes a lot of sense. With a car which you see as special you will want it to be always perfect and so you will address things that many wouldn't in just a daily driver.

But there are also cars which are just more reliable than others. To think every car is trouble with age is misguided in my opinion.

Also, about the following sentence of yours, as soon as I finished reading it I had to check to see if you were in the U.S., which would make the sentence actually make sense, and sure enough you are in the U.S.:

Here in Europe, most countries have yearly inspections. MOT in England, which I'm sure you have heard of. So you can't get away with just not repairing your car and let it soldier on as you put it. Unless it's something like the AC or other superfluous things, which don't concern the functioning and safety of the vehicle. But any major problem which would label the car unreliable would need to be addressed or you won't be allowed to drive the car on public roads. Maybe in the U.S., as I think you have no yearly inspections, you can get away with that. Not here.
I remember driving in the U.S. and seeing some ultra beaten up old cars on the road, which looked like they were barely holding together, and thinking how it would be impossible to drive such cars in Europe. So when I mentioned the cars that I came across as being trouble free, you can believe they really are or were trouble free.

But you are again right when you bring up that we might need to define "reliable" first here. To me it means trouble free or nearly trouble free. Normal wear and tear is fine. Disposables replacements is fine. Repairing things which break prematurely is not fine. Having to address faults made by the manufacturer during the manufacture of the vehicle is not fine. This is how I see it anyway.

I think what plagues cars are gadgets. This is why I see these new cars today and think they will be worthless in 25-30 years when all the computer and gadget stuff will be obsolete and even failing, and to repair will cost more than the cars will be worth. Like the 45 years old German Fords I mentioned which are pretty bullet proof. No wonder. They have nothing to break down. They have a solid engine, a solid gearbox, a steering wheel and four wheels. The problem starts with 1990's cars and some 1980's ones with all the electronic stuff which started invading even the engine compartment. All these iPad controlled modern cars of today will make pretty funny classic cars in 30 years.

 

Sure. But you can't have durability without reliability. I don't think anybody would call an unreliable car durable.

 

Ahhhh. Yes. Excellent point!

Decades ago many states had annual inspections. Few, if any, still do



Right again.


Cheers
DD

 

I would!

Surely we've all seen/heard about cars soldering on to 250-300k miles or more, and still fundamentally functioning well even if a bit war-weary in some cases. It's a testament to their durability. But, they may have needed (or still need) lots of repairs along the way...which would classify them as unreliable or, at minimum, not trouble-free.

I sold my XJR at 171k miles, running very well; no sign whatsoever of impending doom....although I realize that 171k miles isn't any sort of record, mind you. If it hit 250k miles with the new owner I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. I always felt it would be a durable car. It was far from trouble-free. Needed LOTS of repairs over the years but only a few of them essential. If I removed non-essential repairs from the history a person might well say "Looks like it's been fairly trouble-free over the years"

So much is a matter of perspective and, sometimes, semantics


Cheers
DD

 

Case in point for durable and reliable...Mazda MX5 (Miata ) The Japanese copied a Lotus Elan and made all the "fiddly bits" work. I had one for 4 years ...It was the simplest easiest car to work on that I had owned fro decades. Mostly because it had no "gadgets".

No headliner in the top , and an entirely manual operation. Simple suspension and brakes, basic electronic ignition. No power seats, no electronic displays in the dash...in other words...nothing to break. In 4 years I replaced the timing BELT ( not even a much more durable chain ) the water pump, spark plugs, drained & filled the transmission and rear end and flushed the coolant....none of them broke I just did it as part of regular maintenance. I expect to have to do the same , and more , with the Jag simply because its a more complex ride.

 

Just spent the last half hour perusing this thread, what an interesting read. My only advice to you is to just remember that you're buying a car that is somewhere between 22 to 12 years old. Expect problems, get over it. Just enjoy the car. As you can see from my tag line at the end, I've owned a few Brits over the years and have never been stranded. Well, one time back in my younger dumber days, I raced my MG Midget in SCCA H production. Got in to it with a big Healey and wasn't going to let him enter the curve ahead of me. It really didn't like hitting 7,000 rpm's in 3rd gear (red line was 6300 rpm's) and the poor motor just sorta let go...
Anyway, if you do end up owning one of these beauties, drive it like there's no tomorrow. I'm not a bit afraid of taking a cross country trip in mine. Change the oil, change the fluids, do the recommended maintenance as per the owner's manual, replace the normal maintenance items.
I still have to grin every time I take it out and never get tired of people asking what is it and can I go for a ride?
And, from my experience, garage queens have more problems than daily drivers.

 

Well our little red XK8 4.2 2005MY convertible has now covered 20,000 mls over the last 15 years.

With the only issues in need of attention being, the roof latch & hoses set, both front headrest lift & drive cables, a sticking traction control switch, a blub in the clock display, and sticking steering wheel lift motor drive due to a lack of use,
An issue with the transmission, which was squealing fixed by replacing a litre of jaguar trans fluid.
During the warranty: we had a replacement fan belt due to noise, headlamps misting, a faulty spots mode switch replaced, powered seat control box cover replaced.

Other then that all is fine to us. These are just minor issues and would not base them exclusively to Jaguar as a brand but would find the same with any other brand of car which uses the same components, root latch & hoses set, transmission, blubs, fan belt. And yes we would still purchase an XK8 any time if they still made them.

 

Ok. We will have to agree to disagree then. I think a car to be considered durable has to be first reliable. Durable means long lasting and it won't last long if it's not reliable. Even if you become a slave of the car and are constantly repairing its unreliability, at some point it will just give, or you will spend an insane amount of time and money which will negate any claims of durability in my opinion.

In any case, when I mentioned the car which couldn't be killed, I wasn't talking about a car which was unreliable. I was talking about a car which despite anything would still work properly and never gave in. He finally just gave it away, still working and still able to get a MOT.

 

I must say that's quite a list of problems, especially for only 20,000 miles.

Also, I would say 20,000 miles in 15 years is the proverbial definition of a garage queen. So I was wondering if there was maybe a typo and you actually meant 200,000 miles?

 

 

I've put over 120,000 miles on Kitty in just over 5 years. She has over 223,000 miles on her and just did "another" 2,000 mile trip this past weekend. She's been towed away once in all that time. Yes - she gets what I consider to be routine TLC and she does have a perpetual to-do list of several things that I'd like to get to "someday", but I can get in her and just drive anywhere with reasonable confidence that I'll get there. I'm sure that someday she'll need to be towed away again for some reason, but I'll worry about that day when it comes.

You want to make one of these cars reliable? Simple: Drive the damn thing and give it the TLC it deserves.

 

I've been reading this thread with interest so thought I'd add my two pennarth.

Ive had my 1999 XK8 some 21 months now. When I bought her she had a bubble in the roof lining, but as I'd done a lot of research I knew what would happen, I replaced the sagging lining 2 months later. Other than that it had an intermittent boot (trunk) lamp switch which the previous owner told me about, took a couple of hours to replace, easy peasy.

Since then I've added 12 K miles to her up from 28 to 40,000. Only prob was a failed a/c condensor, which is placed right at the front of the car and had suffered with stone damage. Passed the MOT easily both times. Not bad for a nearly 20 year old car.

My advice is buy the best you can afford, there are a lot of tired and tatty XK8s and XKRs out there for bargain money. I don't subscribe to the 4ltr engines being crap type theories, yes they have a couple of weaknesses but once dealt with they are reliable.

And I see the "cars built in the BL days are rubbish" type comments resurfacing once more. If I had a quid for everyone who told me that over the last 30 odd years (while driving various Triumphs and Rovers) I'd be a wealthy man! I did 100s of thiusands of miles with few problems, and the only yime I ever broke down was 3 times in my old TR7 V8, someone had fitted a US made twin point distributor what a pile of junk, took weeks to suss out as it was intermittent, I put a nice reliable Lucas one back in and never had another problem. And many people complain about Lucas

The 2 worst cars I've ever owned were Vauxhalls, and I lived in Luton where they were built so do have a fondness for them despite everything. My Victor was a total dog, I only kept it 5 weeks, so much went wrong, the other was a Cavalier, a lovely car to drive but the engine kept blowing up, and no I wasn't thrashing it. Both piles of junk. As for astras, reliable yes, comfortable god no, seats to cripple you. I discussed that issue with the hire co. my old company got cars from, apparently its a regularly heard comment from hirers. All I'm saying is EVERY type of car out has issues.

If you do buy oa Jag, buy the best you can find, one with service history, thats been looked after, and with low milleage, if it's as good as mine you'll love it, I do ☺

Terry

 

Although i agree that vauxhalls are a pile of junk, the Mk1 and Mk2 cavaliers were the best cars I've ever had. I had 1 mk1, 1.6GL and 3 Mk2's, a 1.6GL, 1.8SRI and a 2.0GLS. They went downhill with the MK3 which is when I dumped them, that was the most unreliable car I've ever had

 

'It is different. I have already given the example of the 15-17 years old Astras we run with no major issues at all. I also have friends who own 70's German Fords which they run as daily drivers the whole year besides the salty months with no real issues.'

And there are plenty of jag owners on here who can say the same ,there will be examples of all makes/models where older models are run with no issues, doesnt make that the norm though.

' I know somebody who did everything in his power to kill a Toyota and never could. Long story.'

Yes Toyotas and most if not all jap cars are bullit proof, but they are also run of the mill and boring as hell. The japs are innovators, not inventors. They take items that are available, copy them and make them better, that is their way of life but do we all want to drive boring cars? Other manufacturers change things, break rules make things different and exciting and that has a price with reliability. Now onto the next point

'And as pointed out in the thread, the problems with the X100 are not only related to age. It's mainly related to bad engineering decisions which compromised the car. Had those stupid decision not been made the car would be much more reliable and most likely not have the reputation. I think blaming it on age alone is a cop-out.'

No its not, as alot of the components are unique, they have had limited testing, normally no more than 2 years. Is that enough to find out if the tensioners are going to fail, or the plastic water pump impellor is going to let go? yes the engine has been run on a test bed to destruction but its time that kills these components, not mileage. Same goes for rubber bushes, and all of the other typical issues . Over time the tensioners were fixed, there was a change in gearbox with the 4.2 and so on so to talk about bad engineering decisions is unfair, they fixed alot of the problems over time but on an older car it is what it is. If the car was going to be made today they could fix all of the issues, but would they do that or go for new inventive technology rather than spruced up old technology like the japs would? Jaguar could have used these mechanicals on the F type, with all of the modifications required but they chose a new setup which without doubt will throw up its own problems, such is the price of invention. Without that we would still be driving round in model T fords, but they would never break down of course!

 

As for our 15-year-Old XK8 yes we have had a few minor issues, but the car has never failed to start for failed in any way, which has stopped us from using the car. And yes it has only covered 20,000 miles, I do think she needs to get out a bit more.
But we have also had new German cars during this time frame and found then to have less faults, but to be major faults to cause complete breakdowns out off use for weeks at a time.
Also to be more expensive to repair & have found there be a shortage of spare parts when required compared to the XK8.

This had led us to add another Jaguar this time an XF estate for everyday use which so far has been with out any issues at all.

 

 

What this means is that we need to hang on to our lovable, but unreliable Jags. When the Millennials take over there will not be anyone left to make them. We can of course rent them out for those Instagram's. We won't be able to sell them due to no one being able to afford one. The bright side is when we reach the point where we can no longer purchase parts and they truly are dead, we will have lot's of Millennials standing around waiting for use to give them one.

 

Unreliable Jags??? Nope.

And on the latest recall list: Toyota, Hyundai recall roughly 110,000 vehicles - ABC News

Once you get through the commercial, the ABC story about BMW recalling over one million cars plays...

 

I wish I could edit my opening post for those who just read it and skip to the end. But the forum software doesn't allow that for some strange reason. I would then add that I have since decided to buy a X100 and am looking for the right one. Maybe it would avoid some unneeded replies.

So I think this thread has ran its course and served its purpose. I will go through it later when I get some time and collect all the major points in a last post for future reference . If I had seen it all listed in a single post when I searched, I might not have started this thread. So it might be useful for somebody searching in the future. I will do that as soon as I get some time.

Thanks to all those who tried to help. You will see me elsewhere in the forums asking all sorts of questions about the beautiful X100, as I go through my journey of finding my car and getting to grips with it.

Thanks again!

 

I have been following this thread and it seemed to me that it was started on the wrong foot, backwards in fact. It opened with a smug challenge and everyone that answered has tried to provide all the best advice. This forum is a great resource in helping advise the enthusiast identify and rectify known potential problem areas. This is a positive approach. I don't think that there is anything to be gained by tearing down the marque, no one "needs" a used XK8, or any older hobby car for that matter. One advantage to buying an older car is that there is a track record on it's durability. There has been products introduced that ended up being quite problematic, such as Porsche's early Boxster models.
Even large, well funded, manufacturers have made these mistakes.