Cloned dealer scan tool
#41
I found this sometime ago.
Tactrix Openport 2.0
Isn't the purpose of the j2534 cable is to communicate with with a manufacturer server. Then my view the tactrix cable should work since its a pass thru device cable.
Tactrix Openport 2.0
Isn't the purpose of the j2534 cable is to communicate with with a manufacturer server. Then my view the tactrix cable should work since its a pass thru device cable.
#42
The note about build year versus model year came from that document.
Jaguar Diagnostic Support Group responded this morning by email and their "complete" response to the query consisted of a link to the Topix site. Not a great deal of help there and certainly not responsive to the query.
#44
For diagnostic and monitoring purposes, the Mongoose will work perfectly on all our OBDII cars; and that is what most folks need. Flash programming is only of secondary concern. So I wouldn't let that screen shot worry you. I'll also note that there are some proprietary functions and tests that don't seem to work with the Mongoose, but that will bother a guy like me more than the average guy working on his own car at home.
So, for model years 2000-2002, presuming access to SDD, how much closer can a Mongoose JLR get a user towards IDS+VCM?
Airbags, transmission, climate control, user settings, security module, and key programming come to mind as some of the areas even a serious diy person might be interested in if he is going to pay the extra money.
The PDF linked by oootis say this:
"Vehicle line fully supported apart from flash programming of AJ16, AJ26, and AJ27 ECMs."
#45
The document:
Jaguar Reprogramming Matrix (PDF file) - National Automotive Service Task Force
http://www.nastf.org/files/public/Ja...toMYRanges.pdf
The site:
Home - National Automotive Service Task Force
This is the governing body or clearinghouse behind the mandate for this aspect of "right to repair". It is the place where you can lodge a complaint if the manufacturer does not comply with making a file available on a non-discriminatory basis.
#46
The Mongoose JLR is far more expensive than the generic tools that can already monitor and pull emissions codes.
So, for model years 2000-2002, presuming access to SDD, how much closer can a Mongoose JLR get a user towards IDS+VCM?
Airbags, transmission, climate control, user settings, security module, and key programming come to mind as some of the areas even a serious diy person might be interested in if he is going to pay the extra money.
The PDF linked by oootis say this:
"Vehicle line fully supported apart from flash programming of AJ16, AJ26, and AJ27 ECMs."
So, for model years 2000-2002, presuming access to SDD, how much closer can a Mongoose JLR get a user towards IDS+VCM?
Airbags, transmission, climate control, user settings, security module, and key programming come to mind as some of the areas even a serious diy person might be interested in if he is going to pay the extra money.
The PDF linked by oootis say this:
"Vehicle line fully supported apart from flash programming of AJ16, AJ26, and AJ27 ECMs."
What the extra cost gets you is SPEED. With the Mongoose I get speed comparable to the GenRad VCM. I get data panels that update several times a second and datalogging that produces nice oscilloscope-like wave forms. With the Elm interfaces, I get more jagged, slower updating data. Still very usable usually, but most times I have to reduce the number of PIDS I'm reading to speed up the ones I am really needing to watch.
But all this is just diagnostics and monitoring, for flash programming you need something J2534 compliant. That means more money.
As far as how close the Mongoose is to the VCM?? Pretty close, and getting closer every day. I do most of my work with the MongoosePro and SDD, programming and all. What doesn't work with the Mongoose are off-beat things like the driveshaft balancer equipment and a few system tests like on-board EVAP pressure tests. Key programming and remotes are a breeze with the Mongoose, too.
At a third the cost of the VCM, it is well worth the money.
Cheers,
#47
I've just discovered that the Mongoose has limitations compared to the VCM.
The Mongoose only works with the software running as SDD, whereas the VCM will let you run the software as Legacy IDS. It's a completey different format, and as it turns out, not all functions are available in the basic SDD.
Actual example right now, I bought a new CD/Radio to replace my Tape/Radio in the XJR. It didn't come with a Radio Code, but i fitted it & it didn't ask for a code, so great. Now I had the battery disconnected for a longer period, and it asks for a code. I don't have the VIN of the donor car, my original code doesn't work. So, into the SDD & try to find where I can reset the code. I've looked everywhere & tried everything, cannot find it.
Now there is a "gold key" button in the SDD, which is something to do with Locked Functions, i've now discovered is also known as Engineering Mode. Apparently in this locked function are all the sneaky wonderful things you might well need, such as how to reset a radio code.
Clicking on the key brings up a request for another password, based on a "seed" that is derived from the VIN of the vehicle you're connected to and the session number.
I have no idea where to get this password from, probably via Topix if you have a subscription, or maybe direct from Jag themselves. I've asked the guy I got the credentials from about it & he didn't know. He never saw this Golden Key before, because he uses a VCM and runs the software as IDS Legacy. Apparently in IDS Legacy there is the function to reset a Radio Code, very easy to find...
So there are a number of functions available to VCM users, that Mongoose owners can't access, without the full subscription it seems.
I'm bummed out, the whole reason I invested in the Mongoose & IDS/SDD was to solve these stupid problems, and it seems I can't....
The Mongoose only works with the software running as SDD, whereas the VCM will let you run the software as Legacy IDS. It's a completey different format, and as it turns out, not all functions are available in the basic SDD.
Actual example right now, I bought a new CD/Radio to replace my Tape/Radio in the XJR. It didn't come with a Radio Code, but i fitted it & it didn't ask for a code, so great. Now I had the battery disconnected for a longer period, and it asks for a code. I don't have the VIN of the donor car, my original code doesn't work. So, into the SDD & try to find where I can reset the code. I've looked everywhere & tried everything, cannot find it.
Now there is a "gold key" button in the SDD, which is something to do with Locked Functions, i've now discovered is also known as Engineering Mode. Apparently in this locked function are all the sneaky wonderful things you might well need, such as how to reset a radio code.
Clicking on the key brings up a request for another password, based on a "seed" that is derived from the VIN of the vehicle you're connected to and the session number.
I have no idea where to get this password from, probably via Topix if you have a subscription, or maybe direct from Jag themselves. I've asked the guy I got the credentials from about it & he didn't know. He never saw this Golden Key before, because he uses a VCM and runs the software as IDS Legacy. Apparently in IDS Legacy there is the function to reset a Radio Code, very easy to find...
So there are a number of functions available to VCM users, that Mongoose owners can't access, without the full subscription it seems.
I'm bummed out, the whole reason I invested in the Mongoose & IDS/SDD was to solve these stupid problems, and it seems I can't....
#48
I've just discovered that the Mongoose has limitations compared to the VCM.
The Mongoose only works with the software running as SDD, whereas the VCM will let you run the software as Legacy IDS. It's a completey different format, and as it turns out, not all functions are available in the basic SDD.
Actual example right now, I bought a new CD/Radio to replace my Tape/Radio in the XJR. It didn't come with a Radio Code, but i fitted it & it didn't ask for a code, so great. Now I had the battery disconnected for a longer period, and it asks for a code. I don't have the VIN of the donor car, my original code doesn't work. So, into the SDD & try to find where I can reset the code. I've looked everywhere & tried everything, cannot find it.
Now there is a "gold key" button in the SDD, which is something to do with Locked Functions, i've now discovered is also known as Engineering Mode. Apparently in this locked function are all the sneaky wonderful things you might well need, such as how to reset a radio code.
Clicking on the key brings up a request for another password, based on a "seed" that is derived from the VIN of the vehicle you're connected to and the session number.
I have no idea where to get this password from, probably via Topix if you have a subscription, or maybe direct from Jag themselves. I've asked the guy I got the credentials from about it & he didn't know. He never saw this Golden Key before, because he uses a VCM and runs the software as IDS Legacy. Apparently in IDS Legacy there is the function to reset a Radio Code, very easy to find...
So there are a number of functions available to VCM users, that Mongoose owners can't access, without the full subscription it seems.
I'm bummed out, the whole reason I invested in the Mongoose & IDS/SDD was to solve these stupid problems, and it seems I can't....
The Mongoose only works with the software running as SDD, whereas the VCM will let you run the software as Legacy IDS. It's a completey different format, and as it turns out, not all functions are available in the basic SDD.
Actual example right now, I bought a new CD/Radio to replace my Tape/Radio in the XJR. It didn't come with a Radio Code, but i fitted it & it didn't ask for a code, so great. Now I had the battery disconnected for a longer period, and it asks for a code. I don't have the VIN of the donor car, my original code doesn't work. So, into the SDD & try to find where I can reset the code. I've looked everywhere & tried everything, cannot find it.
Now there is a "gold key" button in the SDD, which is something to do with Locked Functions, i've now discovered is also known as Engineering Mode. Apparently in this locked function are all the sneaky wonderful things you might well need, such as how to reset a radio code.
Clicking on the key brings up a request for another password, based on a "seed" that is derived from the VIN of the vehicle you're connected to and the session number.
I have no idea where to get this password from, probably via Topix if you have a subscription, or maybe direct from Jag themselves. I've asked the guy I got the credentials from about it & he didn't know. He never saw this Golden Key before, because he uses a VCM and runs the software as IDS Legacy. Apparently in IDS Legacy there is the function to reset a Radio Code, very easy to find...
So there are a number of functions available to VCM users, that Mongoose owners can't access, without the full subscription it seems.
I'm bummed out, the whole reason I invested in the Mongoose & IDS/SDD was to solve these stupid problems, and it seems I can't....
The radio code, it's either try to come up with the VIN of the car it came from or ship to Alpine for repair. That's the only way to get by the code, IDS/SDD never could help you there.
**edit: I take that back, get me a picture of any label and numbers on the radio and I'll see what I can do.
Be back later.....
Last edited by xjrguy; 07-10-2012 at 03:45 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Cambo (07-11-2012)
#49
I've just discovered that the Mongoose has limitations compared to the VCM.
The Mongoose only works with the software running as SDD, whereas the VCM will let you run the software as Legacy IDS. It's a completey different format, and as it turns out, not all functions are available in the basic SDD.
Actual example right now, I bought a new CD/Radio to replace my Tape/Radio in the XJR. It didn't come with a Radio Code, but i fitted it & it didn't ask for a code, so great. Now I had the battery disconnected for a longer period, and it asks for a code. I don't have the VIN of the donor car, my original code doesn't work. So, into the SDD & try to find where I can reset the code. I've looked everywhere & tried everything, cannot find it.
Now there is a "gold key" button in the SDD, which is something to do with Locked Functions, i've now discovered is also known as Engineering Mode. Apparently in this locked function are all the sneaky wonderful things you might well need, such as how to reset a radio code.
Clicking on the key brings up a request for another password, based on a "seed" that is derived from the VIN of the vehicle you're connected to and the session number.
I have no idea where to get this password from, probably via Topix if you have a subscription, or maybe direct from Jag themselves. I've asked the guy I got the credentials from about it & he didn't know. He never saw this Golden Key before, because he uses a VCM and runs the software as IDS Legacy. Apparently in IDS Legacy there is the function to reset a Radio Code, very easy to find...
So there are a number of functions available to VCM users, that Mongoose owners can't access, without the full subscription it seems.
I'm bummed out, the whole reason I invested in the Mongoose & IDS/SDD was to solve these stupid problems, and it seems I can't....
The Mongoose only works with the software running as SDD, whereas the VCM will let you run the software as Legacy IDS. It's a completey different format, and as it turns out, not all functions are available in the basic SDD.
Actual example right now, I bought a new CD/Radio to replace my Tape/Radio in the XJR. It didn't come with a Radio Code, but i fitted it & it didn't ask for a code, so great. Now I had the battery disconnected for a longer period, and it asks for a code. I don't have the VIN of the donor car, my original code doesn't work. So, into the SDD & try to find where I can reset the code. I've looked everywhere & tried everything, cannot find it.
Now there is a "gold key" button in the SDD, which is something to do with Locked Functions, i've now discovered is also known as Engineering Mode. Apparently in this locked function are all the sneaky wonderful things you might well need, such as how to reset a radio code.
Clicking on the key brings up a request for another password, based on a "seed" that is derived from the VIN of the vehicle you're connected to and the session number.
I have no idea where to get this password from, probably via Topix if you have a subscription, or maybe direct from Jag themselves. I've asked the guy I got the credentials from about it & he didn't know. He never saw this Golden Key before, because he uses a VCM and runs the software as IDS Legacy. Apparently in IDS Legacy there is the function to reset a Radio Code, very easy to find...
So there are a number of functions available to VCM users, that Mongoose owners can't access, without the full subscription it seems.
I'm bummed out, the whole reason I invested in the Mongoose & IDS/SDD was to solve these stupid problems, and it seems I can't....
#50
The radio code, it's either try to come up with the VIN of the car it came from or ship to Alpine for repair. That's the only way to get by the code, IDS/SDD never could help you there.
**edit: I take that back, get me a picture of any label and numbers on the radio and I'll see what I can do.
Be back later.....
**edit: I take that back, get me a picture of any label and numbers on the radio and I'll see what I can do.
Be back later.....
#51
The following users liked this post:
Cambo (07-11-2012)
#53
The following users liked this post:
xjrguy (07-12-2012)
#54
#56
What the extra cost gets you is SPEED. With the Mongoose I get speed comparable to the GenRad VCM. I get data panels that update several times a second and datalogging that produces nice oscilloscope-like wave forms. With the Elm interfaces, I get more jagged, slower updating data. Still very usable usually, but most times I have to reduce the number of PIDS I'm reading to speed up the ones I am really needing to watch.
There is also some influence from not interposing a UART in the signal path. A rate of 1600 PID's is possible on the CAN protocol when raw dumping using the scantool 16 bit chip. The problem is that it takes custom software to do this. The problem faced by the software vendors is that they write to the ELM interface spec because that is where the market lies for them. There are only a couple of packages that work with the J2534 interfaces.
BTW, after looking at the DLC pinout, it would appear that the reason there is a Mongoose "JLR" specific version at double the cost, is the serial lines on the DLC which are proprietary. At least that is the case according to the 2001 X308 wiring diagrams. It may be that nothing other than the three Jaguar supported J2534 will handle these lines. At least one of them is marked according to the Jaguar chart to be less capable than the other two.
As far as how close the Mongoose is to the VCM?? Pretty close, and getting closer every day. I do most of my work with the MongoosePro and SDD, programming and all. What doesn't work with the Mongoose are off-beat things like the driveshaft balancer equipment and a few system tests like on-board EVAP pressure tests. Key programming and remotes are a breeze with the Mongoose, too.
"It is also worth noting due to the imminent cancellation of VCM manufacture steps are being taken from the current patch to enable the Mongoose to operate at the same level as the VCM."
That was a reply to a second level escalation at the support centre.
Last edited by plums; 07-11-2012 at 06:14 PM.
#57
Can't thank you enough Steve!
OK so....
That sounds nice, but it'll only work in new releases of the IDS/SDD software, and when taking into consideration;
Then it doesn't really matter what functionality is added to the SDD+Mongoose, very few people outside of a thriving business can afford to pay $1000 per year for something that, if all goes well, you won't need.
Speaking from an enthusiasts point of view, it's different for the proffessionals...
OK so....
Originally Posted by plums
Part of the answer received from a followup to Jaguar Diagnostics Support was:
"It is also worth noting due to the imminent cancellation of VCM manufacture steps are being taken from the current patch to enable the Mongoose to operate at the same level as the VCM."
"It is also worth noting due to the imminent cancellation of VCM manufacture steps are being taken from the current patch to enable the Mongoose to operate at the same level as the VCM."
Originally Posted by xjrguy
Currently, if the SDD setup has been 'activated' and updated with the current calibration files etc., it does not need TOPIx to function or do programming. That is going to change in the near future, however. Very soon the calibrations etc. will probably not be on the local computer, they will be pulled as needed from TOPIx. That means the SDD/IDS computer will have to have a live internet connection and subscription to TOPIx. If it doesn't have that connection, SDD will only have limited function.
Speaking from an enthusiasts point of view, it's different for the proffessionals...
#58
#59
#60
Can't thank you enough Steve!
OK so....
That sounds nice, but it'll only work in new releases of the IDS/SDD software, and when taking into consideration;
Then it doesn't really matter what functionality is added to the SDD+Mongoose, very few people outside of a thriving business can afford to pay $1000 per year for something that, if all goes well, you won't need.
Speaking from an enthusiasts point of view, it's different for the proffessionals...
OK so....
That sounds nice, but it'll only work in new releases of the IDS/SDD software, and when taking into consideration;
Then it doesn't really matter what functionality is added to the SDD+Mongoose, very few people outside of a thriving business can afford to pay $1000 per year for something that, if all goes well, you won't need.
Speaking from an enthusiasts point of view, it's different for the proffessionals...
Back to the Mongoose..... DVD 125 as it turns out, does have an issue with the Mongoose; it works for SDD, but if I either launch IDS, or let SDD handoff to IDS, the first time it tries to interrogate a module IDS crashes. I have consulted DrewTech about it and they determined it was an issue with SDD, and we'd have to pursue it with Jaguar. Jaguars position is........ wait for it...... "there's a newer version out now, you need to upgrade to the newer version". They aren't going to do anything about it.
I got the Mongoose JLR at about the transition from DVD 126 to DVD 127. Since then the Mongoose has performed pretty well with both SDD and IDS, and improving with every update. That's the good news.
The bad news is, as I said earlier, pretty soon SDD will REQUIRE an internet connection and TOPIx subscription to be fully functional. But that's not here yet. If you have SDD software, [up to the current DVD 130] and have the cal files up to date, you should be fully functional with the internet connection turned off. If there is a connection, it is possible that it could phone home and they could disable it. THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET, but it could. I know they can, and have, turned off it's ability to remain current with cal files and as-built files. But even that only concerns flash programming, not normal diagnostic or datalogging functions.
So, that means software between DVD 127 and 130 should be pretty handy and functional for most diagnostic, setup and other configuration type work, even with a Mongoose JLR or MongoosePro JLR. Works great for me.
Now, for the Engineering Mode, that is there for overriding restrictions etc. that keep you from programming backward to earlier software levels and things like that. Those are functions that you would normally never want to do, and we have to do it in consult with Jaguar Technical folks. The seed code is a unique code the software spits out for one session, we have to give that code to Technical. They have a secure website they are given access to, where they enter the seed code we give them. That website spits out a response code valid for that session that unlocks SDD/IDS so it can perform the normally restricted functions. Certain models use that system to allow us to program the current odometer mileage into a new instrument cluster for instance, that's a restricted function. So there is a method to their madness.
That's enough bloviating, hope that helps!
Cheers,
Last edited by xjrguy; 07-12-2012 at 09:11 PM.