I found this sometime ago.

Tactrix Openport 2.0

Isn't the purpose of the j2534 cable is to communicate with with a manufacturer server. Then my view the tactrix cable should work since its a pass thru device cable.

 

Actually, it is a different one. It is a 40'ish page long pdf that calls out model and model year against each functional area by line, with columns for available functionality. It is about as clear as mud because the column definitions are not given. You have to guess.

The note about build year versus model year came from that document.

Jaguar Diagnostic Support Group responded this morning by email and their "complete" response to the query consisted of a link to the Topix site. Not a great deal of help there and certainly not responsive to the query.

 

@ Plums I guess I haven't seen that one. A 40 page document does sound like a lot of technobabble. !

 

The Mongoose JLR is far more expensive than the generic tools that can already monitor and pull emissions codes.

So, for model years 2000-2002, presuming access to SDD, how much closer can a Mongoose JLR get a user towards IDS+VCM?

Airbags, transmission, climate control, user settings, security module, and key programming come to mind as some of the areas even a serious diy person might be interested in if he is going to pay the extra money.

The PDF linked by oootis say this:

"Vehicle line fully supported apart from flash programming of AJ16, AJ26, and AJ27 ECMs."

 

It's more like someone transcribed a bunch of stuff into a spreadsheet that they did not understand very well. Searched the whole site for the matching master definitions in case they are kept separate from the oem matrices. No joy.

The document:

Jaguar Reprogramming Matrix (PDF file) - National Automotive Service Task Force

http://www.nastf.org/files/public/Ja...toMYRanges.pdf

The site:

Home - National Automotive Service Task Force

This is the governing body or clearinghouse behind the mandate for this aspect of "right to repair". It is the place where you can lodge a complaint if the manufacturer does not comply with making a file available on a non-discriminatory basis.

 

Most of it comes down to what software you have and what it can do. I have full access to IDS/SDD of course, but I also us ScanXL from Palmer Performance, had it for several years. I use the MongoosePRO JLR for both applications, and I also have Bluetooth and USB ELM 327 interfaces to use with ScanXL. I have purchased the Ford Enhanced add-on for ScanXL; that gets me the ability to read ABS, Airbag etc. on Ford products with the ELM interfaces. Pretty handy at times, though I don't have the need very often.

What the extra cost gets you is SPEED. With the Mongoose I get speed comparable to the GenRad VCM. I get data panels that update several times a second and datalogging that produces nice oscilloscope-like wave forms. With the Elm interfaces, I get more jagged, slower updating data. Still very usable usually, but most times I have to reduce the number of PIDS I'm reading to speed up the ones I am really needing to watch.

But all this is just diagnostics and monitoring, for flash programming you need something J2534 compliant. That means more money.

As far as how close the Mongoose is to the VCM?? Pretty close, and getting closer every day. I do most of my work with the MongoosePro and SDD, programming and all. What doesn't work with the Mongoose are off-beat things like the driveshaft balancer equipment and a few system tests like on-board EVAP pressure tests. Key programming and remotes are a breeze with the Mongoose, too.

At a third the cost of the VCM, it is well worth the money.

Cheers,

 

I've just discovered that the Mongoose has limitations compared to the VCM.

The Mongoose only works with the software running as SDD, whereas the VCM will let you run the software as Legacy IDS. It's a completey different format, and as it turns out, not all functions are available in the basic SDD.

Actual example right now, I bought a new CD/Radio to replace my Tape/Radio in the XJR. It didn't come with a Radio Code, but i fitted it & it didn't ask for a code, so great. Now I had the battery disconnected for a longer period, and it asks for a code. I don't have the VIN of the donor car, my original code doesn't work. So, into the SDD & try to find where I can reset the code. I've looked everywhere & tried everything, cannot find it.

Now there is a "gold key" button in the SDD, which is something to do with Locked Functions, i've now discovered is also known as Engineering Mode. Apparently in this locked function are all the sneaky wonderful things you might well need, such as how to reset a radio code.

Clicking on the key brings up a request for another password, based on a "seed" that is derived from the VIN of the vehicle you're connected to and the session number.

I have no idea where to get this password from, probably via Topix if you have a subscription, or maybe direct from Jag themselves. I've asked the guy I got the credentials from about it & he didn't know. He never saw this Golden Key before, because he uses a VCM and runs the software as IDS Legacy. Apparently in IDS Legacy there is the function to reset a Radio Code, very easy to find...

So there are a number of functions available to VCM users, that Mongoose owners can't access, without the full subscription it seems.

I'm bummed out, the whole reason I invested in the Mongoose & IDS/SDD was to solve these stupid problems, and it seems I can't....

 

Cambo, don't write off the Mongoose just yet. I can answer most of your questions, I just have to run right now. Family business tonight and in the morning.

The radio code, it's either try to come up with the VIN of the car it came from or ship to Alpine for repair. That's the only way to get by the code, IDS/SDD never could help you there.

**edit: I take that back, get me a picture of any label and numbers on the radio and I'll see what I can do.

Be back later.....

 

Wow! That suxs, but there was a statement that right now Mongoose only will run SSD. I can't rememeber where I read it @ but I knew it before I bought. Didn't think to much into it because I thought it was the same info but presented in a different format. Hmmm interesting.

 

OK I got the donor car VIN from the seller SAJWA82B97SH16953.

 

Give 1333 a try.......

 

May I ask how you came to that conclusion?

 

It worked! Check your PM's Steve.

 

+1 to ooootis's query on how it came out to 1333.

 

I'm in good stead with the Jaguar Gods.......




Just kiddin'! As a dealer guy I have access to some dealer information. See, we're good for SOMETHING!


Cheers,

 

Nice to know that the Mongoose is faster. This likely comes from the fact that the ELM 327 is a 8 bit microprocessor, the scantool.net chip is a 16 bit microprocessor, and the Mongoose uses a 32 bit microprocessor. The clocks at each level have increased as well.

There is also some influence from not interposing a UART in the signal path. A rate of 1600 PID's is possible on the CAN protocol when raw dumping using the scantool 16 bit chip. The problem is that it takes custom software to do this. The problem faced by the software vendors is that they write to the ELM interface spec because that is where the market lies for them. There are only a couple of packages that work with the J2534 interfaces.

BTW, after looking at the DLC pinout, it would appear that the reason there is a Mongoose "JLR" specific version at double the cost, is the serial lines on the DLC which are proprietary. At least that is the case according to the 2001 X308 wiring diagrams. It may be that nothing other than the three Jaguar supported J2534 will handle these lines. At least one of them is marked according to the Jaguar chart to be less capable than the other two.

Part of the answer received from a followup to Jaguar Diagnostics Support was:

"It is also worth noting due to the imminent cancellation of VCM manufacture steps are being taken from the current patch to enable the Mongoose to operate at the same level as the VCM."

That was a reply to a second level escalation at the support centre.

 

Can't thank you enough Steve!

OK so....

That sounds nice, but it'll only work in new releases of the IDS/SDD software, and when taking into consideration;
Then it doesn't really matter what functionality is added to the SDD+Mongoose, very few people outside of a thriving business can afford to pay $1000 per year for something that, if all goes well, you won't need.

Speaking from an enthusiasts point of view, it's different for the proffessionals...

 

You can pay for as little as 24 hours access on Topix on a pay as you go basis can you not?

 

Yeah but they screw you over....

1-year £614,25, 1-month £404,25, 1-week £246,75, 1-day £141,25, 1-hour £120,75

Multiply by 1.56 to get USD....

 

Well, let's start out back a few posts. There was a comment about the Mongoose not working with Legacy IDS. SDD DVD 125 was the version that first "fully" supported J2534 Interfaces, the Mongoose JLR among them. It was also the last version that allowed access to either SDD OR IDS. In other words, on a late model car we could launch SDD or Legacy IDS at will. At DVD 125 patch four, [known as DVD 125.04] they took that away from us; the only way into Legacy IDS was through SDD once it determined there was no coverage for the older vehicle. SDD handed off the VIN number and launched an IDS session accordingly. I keep a Toughbook around with DVD 125.03 so I can use on older cars and get into IDS. I can only use it on older cars now because they also took away it's ability to retrieve newer calibration files.
Back to the Mongoose..... DVD 125 as it turns out, does have an issue with the Mongoose; it works for SDD, but if I either launch IDS, or let SDD handoff to IDS, the first time it tries to interrogate a module IDS crashes. I have consulted DrewTech about it and they determined it was an issue with SDD, and we'd have to pursue it with Jaguar. Jaguars position is........ wait for it...... "there's a newer version out now, you need to upgrade to the newer version". They aren't going to do anything about it.

I got the Mongoose JLR at about the transition from DVD 126 to DVD 127. Since then the Mongoose has performed pretty well with both SDD and IDS, and improving with every update. That's the good news.

The bad news is, as I said earlier, pretty soon SDD will REQUIRE an internet connection and TOPIx subscription to be fully functional. But that's not here yet. If you have SDD software, [up to the current DVD 130] and have the cal files up to date, you should be fully functional with the internet connection turned off. If there is a connection, it is possible that it could phone home and they could disable it. THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET, but it could. I know they can, and have, turned off it's ability to remain current with cal files and as-built files. But even that only concerns flash programming, not normal diagnostic or datalogging functions.

So, that means software between DVD 127 and 130 should be pretty handy and functional for most diagnostic, setup and other configuration type work, even with a Mongoose JLR or MongoosePro JLR. Works great for me.

Now, for the Engineering Mode, that is there for overriding restrictions etc. that keep you from programming backward to earlier software levels and things like that. Those are functions that you would normally never want to do, and we have to do it in consult with Jaguar Technical folks. The seed code is a unique code the software spits out for one session, we have to give that code to Technical. They have a secure website they are given access to, where they enter the seed code we give them. That website spits out a response code valid for that session that unlocks SDD/IDS so it can perform the normally restricted functions. Certain models use that system to allow us to program the current odometer mileage into a new instrument cluster for instance, that's a restricted function. So there is a method to their madness.

That's enough bloviating, hope that helps!

Cheers,