Well, there's a difference, BIG difference between items spec'd out by mainstream companies and contracted for assembly over there, and shady look-alike knock-off devices flooding the market at ridiculous prices. Not to mention they are put there by companies that will not be there six months from now, and are answerable to no one once they have fleeced you.

My two cents........

 

I normally don't pile on but 1+ on xjrguy's comment. Most of my large woodworking equipment is made in Taiwan and performs as expected. Nuff said!!

 

The difference is not in who manufactured something, but in what was being bought. So, it has nothing to do with the capabilities of the manufacturer. Rather, it is producing to a price point. The price point is often set by the importer, eg. Walmart. They set the price they are willing to pay, and the quality they are willing to sell. Apple does the same.

In the case of the generic ELM327 devices ... it turns out that talking to the CAN bus was hampered by the inclusion of a single resistor. When removed, they work perfectly.

Now, in the case of J2534 devices, they are new and the name brand vendors charge accordingly. The Drew Technologies Jaguar specific J2534 device is double the price of their base J2534 device. It is likely that the difference is a single control line. That difference costs $300 more.

When you look at how J2534 works, one would figure that it is *easier* to clone the hardware than was the case with the ELM 327 chips. Most of the intelligence has been moved to the software driver on the host computer.

My objection is solely to your characterisation of products made in China as being universally low quality. It is simply not true and offensive.

Buss and Littlefuse used to make all their fuses in the US. Great brand, good prices. Today the *brand* still exists, the quality is still good, but the prices are through the roof, and they are all made in Japan. The jobs are gone, the cost and *markup* of freight and customs clearance has been added, and you get to pay for the privilege.

BTW, as far as being not accountable .. on a direct sale, pay by Paypal. There is direct accountability. The vendors are very anxious to maintain their accounts in good standing because it is their lifeblood.

Take the case of LED bulb replacements on ebay. $1 for two from HK or CN with free shipping or $10 + shipping from a US reseller. Same bulb, but the US vendor is at a serious disadvantage. Bulbs ordered last week from two vendors, one HK the other CN, arrived yesterday and today.

My 5 dollars ...

++

 

Um..............can somebody help me out here??

Plums, I said not a word that indicated products from China were of universally low quality. I acknowledged your point that the computer I use was probably built there.

I was referring to ANY fly-by-night, product copying, make to look like something it's not kind of 'company', MOST OF WHICH are in China. Jerks that sell crap that they pass off as made by somebody else, namely a legitimate corporation, when it isn't. I'll beg to differ in that they are NOT accountable.

And I'll stand by THAT characterization!

 

Since the subject of this thread is "Cloned Dealer Scan Tool" then i'd say we are all on topic.

The issue for my is how do you define what's a copy.

I'm pretty sure these Mongoose "clone, copy, whatever" will be made in the same factory as the originals, or at least with the same components.

It's called a ghost-shift.

A Chinese factory has a contract from a USA company to produce 10'000 pieces.
But it's not economical to produce such a small quantity, maybe they produce 20'000.
So they deliver the 10'000 to the original ordering customer, and sell the other 10'000 themselves or via other channels.

This is one way that Chinese-made products are so cheap...they will quote you for any quantity, and find a way to sell the leftovers for a higher margin to make up the difference.

 

There are very few people that truly believe a clone is the original product.

Yet, people actively go searching on Ebay for the stuff.

Even if you won't buy it, some people are buying it and using it. Is there one buyer on JF who actually expected their ebay/amazon "ELM327" to contain a genuine ELM 327 chip sourced from Elm Electronics?

If the buyers did not exist for a particular device, the sellers would sell something else.

In order to maintain a credible presence on Ebay, a seller has to maintain a satisfaction rating of over 98 percent. Fall below that, and business drops off significantly.

The J2534 market is new, but the ELM327 market is mature. Take a look at that market. Lots of people are buying the products, and *most* are not complaining. In fact, finding a OBD plug using a genuine ELM 327 chip is impossible these days.

BTW, if you look carefully the genuine ELM 327 "chip" is a relabelled microcontroller chip which is the *same* microcontroller chip used in the clones. Elm Electronics says so right in their data sheet.

As for accountablility on defective goods, an immediate refund through Paypal sounds like a pretty effective remedy.

And then there is the ghost shift factor mentioned by Cambo351, that "clone" just might be the real deal.

In the clothing business, the brand names do their own knockoffs. The brand specifies a cheaper version of their own style, has labels applied at the factory with the retail price already stroked across, a couple of markdown prices already stroked across, and a final price that is the lowest. These "previously marked down bargains" are shipped directly to discount chains and warehouse outlets under the instruction of the brand owner. These goods are in no way the equal of the look alike regular priced merchandise at the high end stores.

In a further twist, the regular priced goods of certain high end fashion brands sold in US stores are not acceptable in Asia or Europe because they are cut from inferior cloth as compared to the same article sold in other markets. In effect, the US market is getting clones which are not viable in other markets. But, they are "genuine" because the brand owner is the importer. If you want accountability, try complaining to the department store and see how far you get.

++

 

yesterday and loaded the software today. I bought the Drew Tech. Mongoose JLR. I thought that this pass thru adapter would be just Jag/Land only. Not the case it will interface with most of the car Man. websites but you need a name and password.

So..... for the home guy unless you can find an unlocked ver of IDS/SSD or are willing to pay for access to TOPIx the mongoose by itself is useless. I do think that this has been covered in previous post but I thought I would add it in case someone glossed over that fact.

I am waiting on the Ver 127 IDS/SSD software so untill then I'll leave ya'll with a few screen snapshots.

 

I recieved the Ver127 ofIDS software today from the seller on Ebay. Its still been loading for close to 1:20 min. I don't think I'll have time to play with it on the car this evening.

One thing that is a bit troublesome is the user name and password. Nothing in the package to disclose what it is. I'll have to assume its embedded in the software and will be revealed after setup.

Update: The DOS readme file makes mention to disconnect from the internet after software installation and before actually starting the program. It didn't make mention of actually needing the connection. By looking @ the task manager it certainly seems that is it is using connection for installation.

 

thanks for the update, I hope to hear every thing turns out well

 

Everything worked out well. It took close to 5 hours to load and the user name and password was on a readme file on the disc.

I'll play with it this evening for a few mins regardless of the heat!

 

It was to flipping hot yesterday afternoon , but I did get out this morning. I have no issues with my car but ran a scan anyway. It went thru and detailed all the option on the car, asked a few questions if a few things where fitted or not, and spit a nice laundry list of details about the car itself.

A lot of buttons LOL and a lot of options under all those buttons. Even an option to balance your drive shaft, of course I'm certain that extra tooling is required not to mention weights.

Anyone in my area that I can help out please feel free to drop a PM. I'm 20 or so miles south of Annapolis in Calvert County.

 

What are your thoughts on this Mongoose at a $350 savings over buying retail from drew tech?

Has any one ever purchased what seems to be a "cloned" copy of the mongoose?

2012 JLR Mongoose for Jaguar and Land Rover_Professional Diagnostic Tools_Car Diagnostic Tools_Auto Scanner Tools_Auto Diagnostic Tools,Codes Reader,Auto Software, Key Programmer Suppliers from China-OBD2TOOl

 

Before proceeding, take a look at this:

 

I'd jump on it! If indeed what you get is the same as the pic, thats the real McCoy. Good find wished I had seen it.

 

Plums,
What is your concern, the cost or the limited support for the 2000-2002 MY? The cost can be avoided by finding someone selling their old version of IDS/SSD. If you have those model years you would be better served by finding someone selling one of the red VCMs.

 

Cost? Where was that mentioned?

The concern is that people go into it with their eyes open.

This thread is in the General Tech area. Therefore there is no indication of specific model years due to the area itself.

Given that people do not necessarily open attachments in threads, it is more than possible that someone may go ahead and purchase a J2534 device without realising that they will not be able to use it on their specific vehicle. That is the reason for posting a message with the full sized image of the pertinent screen and calling attention to it.

Jaguar themselves have been less than clear in their PDF document as to the exact level of support for older vehicles via SSD+J2534. The JLR diagnostics support group has been queried by email and an answer is pending. In the meantime the PDF can be found all over the internet by searching for Jaguar J2534.

Note also that the 2000-2002 year references are to build years and not model years.

 

@ Plums, I recon we both were trying to accomplish the same thing. As far as the cost I had to go back and look @ what was mentioned previously and found that any reference to actually cost was to a Ford VCM for 899 I believe.

"Jaguar themselves have been less than clear in their PDF document as to the exact level of support for older vehicles via SSD+J2534. The JLR diagnostics support group has been queried by email and an answer is pending. In the meantime the PDF can be found all over the internet by searching for Jaguar J2534.

Note also that the 2000-2002 year references are to build years and not model years." Didn't know that!

This attachment may shed a bit more light on the subject of compatablity. I hope this is the one you are referring to.

Eyes wide open you bet. We both are trying to provide the best info. I think your info is more in depth than mine since you have been around Jaguars alot longer than I.

For me though I'll use every bit of info I can find and opinions from actual users and weight that against my needs before I dump hundreds of dollars on anything. I believe most folks will as well.

Top of the morning to ya, gotta roll to the Fairfax Starbucks this morning.

Dave

 

A couple of things.......

The reference in the J2534 Tool Box 2 screen shot about 'limited support' for 2000-2002 models is only with respect to module flash programming. Those model years cannot be programmed in the field other than for peripheral functions and setup. Contrary to popular belief, flash programming is very rarely necessary unless the mfg. has made a purposeful change in software to correct something. That does happen, but not that often, actually. And once a vehicle is mostly through the warranty period, the software will not be further updated, by then they have moved on to the more current vehicles. The exception to this is of course some update required and mandated for a Recall, as in the J004 Recall that applied to four of our carlines. There was a case on the 4.2L XK8's where a change was made to the purge valve that necessitated a reflash of the ECM if the valve was changed. Those are the rare cases I'm talking about.

For diagnostic and monitoring purposes, the Mongoose will work perfectly on all our OBDII cars; and that is what most folks need. Flash programming is only of secondary concern. So I wouldn't let that screen shot worry you. I'll also note that there are some proprietary functions and tests that don't seem to work with the Mongoose, but that will bother a guy like me more than the average guy working on his own car at home.

As far as 'build year' vs model year. I don't know where that came from. That's like saying the first 2003 S-Types came with 4.0L engines instead of 4.2L because they were built in 2002. With rare exceptions, Govt. mandates starting on Jan 1 for instance, cars are built equipped for a given model year [MY] regardless of the build date.

ooootis, good luck with your Mongoose, I use one daily and it has been money very well spent, I think you'll like it. Bear in mind though that it won't work on ALL cars as the Toolbox 2 seems to imply. Look in the Mongoose manual and there is a chart showing the pinout differences between the Mongoose versions.

Cheers,

 

I just need it for my car and if I can help someone else out so be it. Thanks for the heads up xjrguy!

 

im selling my real deal set up official jrl vcm laptop with all the updated and even a psc550 batt conditioner pm me for more info