Go Back   Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum > General Jaguar Forums > General Tech Help
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

General Tech Help Good at troubleshooting? Have a non specific issue? Discuss general tech topics here.

Welcome to Jaguar Forums!
Welcome to JaguarForums.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Jaguar Forums community today!


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 01-31-2010, 12:10 AM
Real_Tech's Avatar
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Motorcity
Posts: 526
Thanks: 0
Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts
Default IDS, SDD the naked truth

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...... um, I mean many years ago in Detroit Obdwan Kenobi began..... The Jedi tried to stop..... um, the technicians freaked out. Feedback carburetor, what the hell is that, TPMS, my wife gives me enough trouble, zero 2 sensor, why would I want to sense zero twice, I stick my test light where to get secret codes, if you introduce me to the engineer that came up with this I will show him exactly where to stick this test light. We don't need no stinkin badges..... um, I mean we don't need no stinkin OBD, after I tuned up my Ford F100 300cid straight six she got nearly 10 miles per gallon and they think they can do better than that(actually Ford trucks have barely gotten more than 14mpg until recently[like 2008], makes you wonder).

Things rapidly advanced over the next year....er, I mean nearly 20 years and viola, OBDII. Now were cooking with fire, or at least miles of burning wire required to acomplish this amazing thing called OBDII. Now you can actually see what the sensors are saying without hooking up 3 different DVOMs and wondering if you are getting a good connection on every one. This allowed the amazing advance that came next.

The amazing advance was the Jaguar, Ford,Jaguar, Ford, I think it was really Ford but it does(mostly)work on Jaguars too! Are you ready???******WDS****** At first it was thought that the letters stood for "Wrongly Diagnoses Simple faults" then they finally sent one of us to school and we learned it meant Worldwide Diagnostic System. That one tech then tought the rest of us how to use this thing.

It was a good piece of kit actually though a little slow compared to today. It was a handheld, portable, touchscreen laptop that connected to the OBDII connector for diagnosing vehicle system faults. Why there were so many things left off of the Jaguar version compared to the Ford version we will never know as it is now obsolete(and most of those things like misfire monitor are still not on the SDD!!!). We still use 2 of them at the shop when we are slammed and the IDS/SDDs are in use. It still works on Jaguars up to at least 2008 but I wouldn't reflash any processors with it as no new software has been available for it for some time now. With this you can access codes from every module in a Jaguar. You can read live data from nearly anything on the car with the "datalogger" function. You can see switch status from things like door latch, trunk latch, key in ignition, headlamp switch, seat position fore, aft, recline, climate control servo positions, temp sensor raw data, processed data, displayed data and on and on and on. If you open all available datalogger points for anything after X300 it will take the WDS 5 minutes to open them all with Windows 98. An agreement was reached with GenRad to continue to support it for repairs only but I can't remember the cutoff date, I will update the post with the correct date when I go back to work. If you are a true Jag lover and can get one cheap with the latest discs and a good battery and cable, and you don't drive a 2007 and up XK or an XF it would be a good addition to anyones tool box. I think it would be especially intriguing for a local Jag club that had a lot of later model Jags in their roster. The combined buying power of 20 or 30 Jag owners would make the WDS almost cheap and it could help diagnose many cars.

Now we get to the bread and butter of this post, the current state of affairs with advanced diagnostics. The supposedly undisputed diagnostics champion the******IDS/SDD******let's have a round of applause please. Now we are really cooking with fire and a lot less melted wiring as this unit is especially meant for OBDIII and was designed that way from the start even though when it was released no OBDIII cars were in the Jaguar stable. The primary advantage of OBDIII is the advanced use of networking between modules. This of course eliminates the need for redundant wiring as data can now be transmitted between modules via various network protocols such as high speed CAN, low speed CAN, LIN bus, MOST and a few others that are really unimportant to anyone but the Übergeek. If you really most know just post your technobabel question and I will list all the networks and their speeds when I have the data in front of me. The networks are strained, whipped and pureed through the gateway module for distribution to other modules. What this means is MOST optical data can be converted and sent on the high speed CAN and vice versa enabling communication between modules on different networks that were not possible with OBDII, thus, less wires. By now you are saying "what the hell does this crap have to do with the IDS/SDD?". Here's the payoff.

The IDS/SDD software package was designed from the begining to take advantage of this. What is this magical IDS/SDD thing you speak of? According to Jaguar the IDS is "the Integrated Diagnostic System made available to ensure the correct and accurate maintenance of Jaguar vehicles" this is quoted form their website. You will notice it doesn't mention anything about accurate repair, hmmm. Let's see how this thing really works.

In the beginning Jaguar/Ford said let there be IDS! And there was IDS. Then Jaguar/Ford said let the IDS transform into the SDD! And it transformed into the SDD. Then Jaguar/Ford said when we do this amazing transformation we will not train any techs on this new piece of software, we will not offer any classes on this new piece of software, for this new software is perfect in every way, just like our cars(insert evil laugh). Even the lowliest gutter grubbing, gravy licking, rack picking, shotgun the bitch, parts slinging, hack master will be able to diagnose the most complex problem with just a couple of touches of a touchscreen laptop.

IDS/SDD operators manual. Connect cable to diagnostic connector. For IDS enter last 6 digits of the VIN number, for SDD turn ignition on and SDD will read VIN for the tech(most of the time). IDS, select your area of inquiry be it codes, datalogger, vehicle information, repair manual, module programming, security programming etc. It's pretty straight forward and very similar to the operation of the WDS only much faster and with half the locked up screen faults requiring restart. SDD, try to decipher what all the green ***** with check marks and red ***** with Xs are all about, give up and try to find the area you want to go to like pulling codes. You will not find the code pulling area as the SDD in its infinite wisdom has already done that for you. No wonder it took 20 minutes to get it booted up to the car, it has already done all the simple tedious work the tech would have had to do with the IDS. This is true, the simple stuff is done for you. Now you just select whether or not you want to repair the car or give up. Lets say you have a XF with a park aid fault and codes for all 4 front park aid sensors (im using this example because this was in the shop last week and I still owe tech line photos and an EPQR over it). Don't quote me on the exact wording I don't have a SDD in front of me. You select diagnose fault, select driving aids, select parking aid system. This all displays like you were using Windows Explorer on your PC as a tree that gets smaller until you reach the lowest common file. Now the SDD has already pulled the codes and it knows what diagnostic procedures are required to fix this fault code so all you have to do is click the last box and presto magico the first step in the diagnostic procedure comes up. Check fuse for park aid module(again dont quote me im wingin it) and there will be 2 boxes at the bottom of the screen "is fuse good" "is fuse bad". You check the fuse and find it good. Most techs will now check the "fuse is good" box, the shop hack master will come over and ask me, the shop foreman, "what am I supposed to do here, I hate this thing" to which I will reply "was the fuse good or not?" to which the H.M. will say "it looks good to me" to which I will reply "I would probably check the fuse is good box then". The next step in the diagnostic procedure will now come up and it will say something like "remove left trunk liner panel for access to the park aid module located in the second position from the bottom of the module stack bolted to the floor of the trunk with 4, 10mm bolts. Remove plug PAM1(it will show a picture of connector and module) and check for voltage at RW wire on pin 4. Is the voltage 10 volts or above?" 2 boxes again "yes", "no". The tech then checks the voltage on the requested pin and it is battery voltage of 12.6 volts. The normal tech now ticks the "yes" box, the hack master pulls me away from my job again and says "what is this crap, I already checked the f'in fuse" to which I reply "what if the harness is cut or a harness connector is disconnected somewhere" to which he replys "oh, I see, if I have voltage at the module everything is good and I just reflash the PAM" to which I want to reply "listen dipsh*t, you've been working here 5 years and every day you ask me how to change the oil on a fu*kin X-Type and I'm sick of it" but in the real world I say " do you want me to fix it? You'll lose your time into it and I will get paid while you don't" he of course replies "I can do it dude, this machine just sucks". After ticking yes the next screen pops up and says "check pin 7 of PAM1 connector for ground, is resistance to battery negative post less than 10Ω?" and again yes and no boxes. Normal tech finds 2Ω and ticks yes while H.M., well you know what he did. The next screen comes up and says "after reconnecting the PAM1 connector remove left front wheel and wheel arch liner. Disconnect cabin harness connector CH-005. Check for power to front sensors on RG wire at pin 1 of connector CH-005. Is voltage over 10 volts?" yes and no again. Tech finds battery voltage and ticks yes. Next screen, "at same CH-005 connector check for ground to front park aid sensors. Check resistance between B wire in pin 8 of CH-005 connector and battery negative post. Is resistance below 10Ω?" again yes and no. Tech finds 2Ω and ticks yes. Next page, "reconnect connector CH-005, back probe connector PAM1 at park aid module with proper back probe tools and check for signal return from front park aid right outer sensor on NG wire at pin 38 of PAM1 connector. Is voltage between 6 and 11 volts?" again yes and no. Tech finds 8 volts and ticks yes. Next screen, "replace park aid module and program with SDD". Normal tech installs module and programs with SDD but park aid is still inop and error tones any time the rotary selector is out of park(front and rear sensing plus rear camera). This procedure took the normal tech a little more than an hour but the car is still broken following the SDD procedure. He asks me "what happened" to which I reply "are you sure you followed the instructions correctly? Go through it again with the new module and let me know what it says". Hack master after 2 days of diagnosis throws tools around shop denting his own tool box says "this is b.s. dude, show me how to change the oil on this S-Type for the 274th time and you fix the G.D. thing". I laugh my evil laugh for the 24956th time in his face and say "sure but i'm taking your hours to pay me" to which he replies for the 24956th time "whatever dude". The normal tech goes through the procedure again and it again says replace park aid module. Now I say "J.C., G.D., C.S.,M.F., WHORE P.O.S. let me have the G.D. thing". I go through the procedure for the third time after contacting tech line several times to try and find out what went wrong and it says replace park aid module. At this point I am tempted to set fire to the thing but I figure a burning laptop will release noxious fumes worse than the CO I breathe every day in the shop when the hack master doesn't put exhaust hoses on the car he's revving to 5,000rpm. So I say to normal tech "F this turd, I'll be right back". I return 5 seconds later with a stethoscope. I tell normal tech turn the ignition on and put it in gear while I listen to the sensors. I hear nothing front or rear. I ask the tech if the module is plugged in and he assures me yes. I say lets do a hard reset, maybe the module is locking out operation due to the fault. He turns key back on and puts in gear and I get about a millisecond of noise from rear sensor. I say hard reset again and listen to the front where I get no noise at all. Now it's coming to me and I ask the tech "during the SDD diagnostic procedure it never did ask us to check voltage or ground at an individual sensor did it?" he says "um, no". I say "pull the F'in front bumper off" where to the SDDs surprise is a pinched signal return wire covered in green corossion. Ordered front bumper harness for replacement the next day, XF fixed. Total diagnostic time with stethoscope and common sense including removal of bumper for access 45 minutes. Total time wasted on SDD misdiagnosis at least 8 hours including a $695 module that wasn't needed. I place another call to tech line to let them know EXACTLY how I feel and what I will do to the douche bag f*ck that left out the steps in the diagnostic procedure when I see him at the next Jaguar function I attend. Tech line then replies "well alright Real, waste some more time by taking pictures of the damaged harness and e-mailing them to us so we can look at them and say oooh and aaah and then put in an EPQR so the same douche bag ****(must be a british word) that left the stuff out can fix it. Jaguar thanks you for your support. Have a nice day!"

The master plan with the SDD goes like this. Jaguar will put proper CORRECT diagnostic steps into the system so that any trained monkey can diagnose a Jaguar with minimal skill. Jaguar will block any attempts to circumvent the SDD procedures by doing daily updates to the system via internet downloads. The latest software version 120 is only available as an internet download and all future software will be sent this way as well. It is a 6 gig download! It requires each IDS to be down for what is estimated to be 13 hours. I told our Jaguar area rep last week when he told me this, why dont they use a bit torrent site, it only took me 30 minutes to download 7 gigs when I downloaded Avatar and Sherlock Holmes from Pirate Bay on my home PC. He said he would check into it??? Every night all the car info and data retrieved when using the SDD is transmitted to Jaguar. Every night if there is an update to the software it is automatically downloaded and installed on the SDD. This includes patch files, calibration files for ECMs, TCMs and basically any other module that someone has decided needs updating. Now, if your internet connection was disrupted(like that would ever happen) and the required files did not load. The next time you connect to a car and attempt to reflash a module the SDD will perform a check live online and see if you have the latest software available on your SDD. If you do not, it will stop anything you were doing and download the latest required software before allowing you to continue with the reflash. If there are updates for other modules that are deemed important those will be required to be reflashed as well before you can exit the SDD session(properly at least, you can always yank the cord and take your chances).

What this really means for you, the driver/owner is that you will become more and more dependent on the dealer for proper repairs as the electronics become more and more integrated to the vehicle operating system. This is not just a Jaguar thing, it applies to all manufacturers. Think about this, it was easier to get Ipod connectivity/Bluetooth/Voice/Satellite radio on a Chevy Cobalt then it was on a Jaguar until recently. All cars are integrated this way. It is the OBDIII way. Now, it is possible for an independent repair facility to purchase a IDS/SDD from Jaguar. If you go to their website you can find the links to do so. I assume that the purchase will include the required daily down/uploads as well but there is probably a fee involved and I didn't search the sight enough to be certain of costs. Jaguar will also train independent techs if the shop pays the fees involved. All of this meets the requirements of the information exchange and availability thing required by the government these days. I personally don't know of even one independent shop that has a IDS/SDD, hell, I don't even know of a shop confirmed to have a WDS that works. The costs are high and it would take a lot of Jaguar repairs, especially without warranty repairs subsidized by Jaguar, to afford such an endeavor. It's one of those things that just wont happen. Ultimately the dealer will be the only option. Not because the information isn't available but because the costs are too high.


Defenitions for those not in the loop.

Detroit - Automobile capitol of the world, good hockey team, crappy nightlife.

Obdwan Kenobi - Inventer of the original OBD system, master of everything automotive and my personal Sensei, immortal, not accepting new students.

Jedi - See: Star Wars

Feedback Carburetor - Ancient terminology for a device that attempted to alter fuel mixture with electronics while at the same time fuel was being sucked out of tiny straws by venturi effect. Obviously not very effective.

Engineer - The person that designs things without ever touching them or working on them, kind of magical really, like a Unicorn, hard to find but when you do meet one all you want to do is just wrap your arms around them and squeeze, hard.

Stinkin Badges - The labels applied to a technicians uniform like Tony, Joe, Mike, Jaguar of Miami, Master Tech, Gold Certified etc. Most adults don't wear their badges in public but technicians are special. If you are good Jaguar will send you new ones each year.

DVOM - Digital Volt Ohm Meter, a tool for properly diagnosing electrical faults. Also used for setting off airbags by morons and imbeciles.

WDS - If I have to tell you what this is go back to your very fast, whether you want it to be or not, Toyota.

IDS/SDD - Once again, you shouldn't be here if you do not know what this is.

Gutter Grubber - This is the technician that hangs out in the service drive so that he knows when a good job comes into the shop. He will then patiently wait where he can see the service advisor writing the job up with the customer. Just as the advisor is about to hit ENTER to put the repair order into the system he will run to his computer and snipe the job from more deserving technicians. Deserves slow agonizing death.

Gravy Licker - This type of technician would probably be called a brown noser by those not in the business. He buys his favorite service advisor lunch, expensive whiskey or snacks so that said advisor will pre-assign any simple high paying job to him so that he may avoid difficult tasks and still make good money. When you bring your car to the shop you can identify the Gravy Licker by the extensive bruising on his face.

Rack Picking - The despicable act of constantly checking the available work on your computer so that when a good job comes in you can snipe it from more deserving technicians. Not as evil as the Gutter Grubber because he is too lazy to walk up front and watch for good jobs. Often gets sniped himself by the Gutter Grubber. Should be beaten with the arm ripped from the Gutter Grubber.

Shotgun The Bitch - This is the procedure used by technicians that couldn't diagnose a flat tire with a knife blade sticking out of the sidewall. When they scan for codes and retrieve a code P0307 they will install 8 spark plugs, 8 ignition coils, new manifold seals, all breather hoses, new throttle body gasket and a new ECM just to be sure they got it fixed. If the car comes back in a week with the same code they will install a new engine and transmission.

Parts Slinger - Do not confuse with Shotgun The Bitch!!! A parts slinger truly believes he can fix a car he just doesn't take the time to diagnose. If the parts Slinger gets the same P0307 he will put in a spark plug and ship the car. When it comes back tomorrow he will put in an ignition coil and ship the car. Eventually he may actually get it fixed and it is usually cheaper than a Shotgunners repair as long as the car isn't being towed in every time.

Hack - I am breaking this into 2 defenitions because there are definite differences. A Hack leaves off half the bolts on every job he touches, especially if they are difficult to get to. He leaves off any brackets, clips or other fasteners he feels are not really necessary to keep the car running. The unfortunate part is that his work usually lasts.

Hack Master - Follows the same basic procedures as the Hack but takes it a step further. Never goes on a test drive of more than 2 tenths of a mile, never double checks the fluid levels on a vehicle he just Hacked a transmission, waterpump or engine into. His work almost never lasts more than a week without returning. You cannot be a true Hack Master without having at least 4 cars come back without leaving the parking lot.

Übergeek - Anyone that needs to know any technical information that will do them absolutely no good and never be used for anything but repeating so that they can prove how much of an Übergeek they really are.
__________________
I cannot see through steel.
I cannot predict the future.
I cannot sh*t parts.

Reply With Quote
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Real_Tech For This Useful Post:
Gazoo2 (01-15-2014), georgekale (01-31-2011), gmcgann (12-03-2013), Greg P. (10-19-2014), hawaiianjag (11-15-2012), Jayzjag (01-22-2011), Lcgi (08-18-2011), Marc (05-02-2011), mkrion (09-16-2014), mlp442009 (02-14-2014), OxfordTheCat (11-26-2013), paydase (11-10-2013), ssidexp09 (07-27-2014), Wangstang (09-06-2011)
  #2  
Old 01-31-2010, 01:23 AM
Brutal's Avatar
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sugar Land /Houston, Texas
Posts: 5,809
Thanked 1,089 Times in 770 Posts
BILL BRUTON
Default

lol, you have TOO MUCH TIME!!!!! real T...I used to call SDD the Sytematic Dollar Deductor. It always seems to take more time than what I would ever get to fix the car....
Ahhh, but then the young OBI showed the simple use of a flash drive and export and importing. Now I call clear codes and then give the stupid extended warranty inspector(who worked on cars when they still had carbs) the file a let him take a screen shot of the saved session.....
pretty soon I see a day of indepedants going out of business, or doing nothing other than mechanical repairs. We already have alot of work that involves independants bringing work to us they cant do. And owners that want us to diagnose their problems other cant or wont do. And it sure aint gettin easier
__________________
Working for those that do not every day
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Brutal For This Useful Post:
Greg P. (10-19-2014), jmeres (10-10-2014), Wangstang (09-06-2011)
  #3  
Old 01-31-2010, 05:19 AM
Translator's Avatar
Photobucket

 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brittany France
Posts: 12,723
Thanked 1,032 Times in 692 Posts
Default

Nice one Real, makes for a great read. Didn't realize that you guys are paid in this way, seems open to abuse.

In a past life I used to PM the multi lingual translation of dealer training manuals for a large German car manufacturer. It became more and more apparent that with the development of modern vehicles, the good old fashioned experienced indi guy would simply not be able to keep up and would be relegated to just workng on older Classic cars, which with the Global advent of scrappage schemes will become fewer and fewer.

Don't know how it currently works between the manufacturer and the dealerships/independants. But would it not make sense to licence the software for leasing to the independant rather than outright purchase. After all there is plenty of reverse engineered stuff available. That way your independant would be able to use and have support for genuine software. I know, I live in 'cloud cuckoo land'.

Still prefer the 6 park aids that I already have.
2 eyes,
2 ears,
1 inbuilt inertia detection system,
1 audio outlet
All comunicating through the central servo.

If the eyes let me down, the ears kick in, and if both the eyes and ears fail, then the inertia dectection system sends a signal through the central servo to the audio outlet, whch then emits an audible 'What the F!'
__________________
Cheers,
Richard

Need a Manual, a TSB, or General Info' about your Jag? Check out our >> DOWNLOAD AREA <<

accuratespelling.com
website spell check service
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-31-2010, 07:28 AM
Markus's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Limbo
Posts: 192
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Classic essay, RealTech ! Needs to be the opening chapter of The Jaguar Anthology when you publish it.
Thanks for starting my day with a laugh, albeit a jaw-clenched one!
I hope your day is good......
________

Last edited by joycesjag; 11-25-2012 at 07:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-31-2010, 07:49 AM
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: East Coast
Posts: 134
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Glad I'm not the only one that feels that way.
__________________
Former Master Jaguar Technician
Jaguar Masters Guild Member 2005/2006 and 2007/2008
Pursuing bigger and better things now!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-31-2010, 11:04 AM
Brutal's Avatar
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sugar Land /Houston, Texas
Posts: 5,809
Thanked 1,089 Times in 770 Posts
BILL BRUTON
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Translator View Post
Nice one Real, makes for a great read. Didn't realize that you guys are paid in this way, seems open to abuse.
and this is exactly the issue we deal with as techs. computer lockups, rabbit hole chases to nothing useing the "approved, recommended, IDS/WDS/SDD"
If something doesnt cost the manufacturer $$$ they arent in any hurry to fix the issues that cost us(techs) major $$$. example...a job on IDS/SDD pays .2/hr to use the tool. there isnt a week that goes by that I dont spend over an hour making that .2/hr because of screen freezes, lockups, etc.my avg time is more like .5 actual time..now SDD has shown to be better so far, but is slower to do simple things like Realtech states just to see simple codes cause of the section where SDD does a complete network systems check when you go in before it shows anything. Time will tell, we all know how simple things are when you KNOW them.

We still get the same .2/hr .1/hr extra if you had to program modules, could have been 1 or 5 modules....even though we often spend alot more time to do so. And lets not forget that we cannnot reflash a module unless "recommended" by SDD or is part of a jag bulletin and get paid for it....So we end up fixing a car for free if something doesnt fall in "guidlines" Yes they do it cause many people cant "FIX" a damn thing and claim they did this and that(JAgaur now downloads ALL diag SDD/IDS sessions for review. So it will improve many and hurts others just like many things do in life, (Obamacare?)
This thread is really a rant I feel into letting ya'll "Customers" know what we deal with as techs....every year the tools and cars become more complex(not a big issue with proper training<<<whats that?) But times to do things are always "under review" guess what, they never go up, its always down. Hell, a drive belt on a V8 pays .2/hr which was fine when you could SEE the damn thing. Now you have to remove air intakes, secondary air pipes and pulleys for the same .2/hr...
Experience, and good diag skills doesnt really meen more $$$ it meens you get more per hr, but fewer hrs cause you spend all your time fixing problems others cant. Hence the reason my, and other good techs pay checks keeps going down....
And this new system SDD was rolled out into our computers without prior training, and we have had 1 person last week(SDD has been out 2 months) sent to school out of 16 techs. I guess we're supposed to "lay hands" and learn through osmosis.....oh but wait we were given 120 pages of engineering writen "HOW TO" on SDD to learn with
new techs are still started at the same pay(or less) as when I started with Jag 13 years ago...hmmmm But theyre all to happy to do that out of tech school when they only made min wage at Burger King...They aspire to learn it all and get more $ per/hr and as their pay/hr and knowledge grows they reach a threashold, you now just made the most money annually in your career, because you can now actually fix cars we're gonna give you harder lower paying problems and give your "gravy" to the guys thats cant fix cars cause they need to make a paycheck too. Your annual pay starts the downward slide to its plateau of the "range" youll make till you die...all this while your blood pressure, stress, etc....does its steady climb up....
I LOVE MY JOB, I LOVE MY JOB, I LOVE MY JOB


LIFE, A REVOLVING DOOR OF PEOPLE....OUT WITH THE OLD IN WITH THE NEW
ITS LIKE LOGAN'S RUN
__________________
Working for those that do not every day

Last edited by Brutal; 01-31-2010 at 08:31 PM. Reason: TYPOS, GRAMMER, PUNCTUATION ETC....LOL
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-31-2010, 01:51 PM
Real_Tech's Avatar
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Motorcity
Posts: 526
Thanks: 0
Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts
Default I will say this about the SDD

It has improved a lot since it was first released. It actually works when you tick the "campaigns" button and takes you where you need to go. Most of the problems I have are extended boot times when first connecting to a car and misleading diagnostic routines.

I'm sure they will be working to correct these things. The problem is that us techs are the guinea pigs they are using to find the problems. When you do spend the time to run down a problem with the equipment they want you to spend even more time taking pictures, capturing screen shots or sending data over the internet and then submit an EPQR about the problem. When all this is done tech line or some english ****** will call and say "thanks for the help Real!. Were going to send you one of our special tech line $1.50 coffee mugs for your trouble." To which I reply " thanks so much, I will set it along side the other 12 Jaguar coffee mugs you have sent me."
__________________
I cannot see through steel.
I cannot predict the future.
I cannot sh*t parts.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-01-2010, 02:15 AM
Translator's Avatar
Photobucket

 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brittany France
Posts: 12,723
Thanked 1,032 Times in 692 Posts
Default

Hey Joe, I am English! LOL
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-03-2010, 05:46 AM
H20boy's Avatar
Veteran member

 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 11,064
Thanked 816 Times in 615 Posts
Default

Nice writeup, I think I'll add this to the FAQ stickies list.
__________________
Matt | 2003 XK8 CvTbl | 2005 SuperV8
My Jag Galleries



Go Texas Tech!


Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-03-2010, 09:52 AM
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 5,541
Thanked 706 Times in 570 Posts
Default

Fantastic industry insight, guys. Thanks for posting this thread.

With each passing year, I miss my simple-to-work-on 1974 Datsun 260Z more and more....
__________________
2005 S-Type 3.0, Quartz / Dove
2006 XK8 Victory Edition Convertible, Onyx / Cashmere
Raleigh, North Carolina
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-09-2010, 12:39 AM
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 253
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default

i just had SDD class last week,

Slightly Dodgy Diagnostic

with that and K048 we have a very interesting future ahead

Real_Tech,sounds like you one of the boys from Troy,lets not forget our beloved F.R.E.D,My favorite is when Tech line replies with "never heard of that,let us know what you find"....
__________________
Jaguar master Tech
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-14-2010, 05:53 PM
ud
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,596
Thanks: 0
Thanked 93 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real_Tech View Post
It has improved a lot since it was first released. It actually works when you tick the "campaigns" button and takes you where you need to go. Most of the problems I have are extended boot times when first connecting to a car and misleading diagnostic routines.

I'm sure they will be working to correct these things. The problem is that us techs are the guinea pigs they are using to find the problems. When you do spend the time to run down a problem with the equipment they want you to spend even more time taking pictures, capturing screen shots or sending data over the internet and then submit an EPQR about the problem. When all this is done tech line or some english ****** will call and say "thanks for the help Real!. Were going to send you one of our special tech line $1.50 coffee mugs for your trouble." To which I reply " thanks so much, I will set it along side the other 12 Jaguar coffee mugs you have sent me."
Real Tech,

I very much appreciate this writeup, your creative writing style, and your good sense of humor. And, I can relate to most of it as about a million years ago I was a Chevy mechanic. We were called mechanics then as the name tech wasn't used yet, and we actually never really needed a VOM in the shop (DVOMs weren't invented yet). The bulb was either burned out or it wasn't. If the bulb was good, a test light found the bad wire, which you could easily see the entire run. But, all of the shop terms and labels you use applied back then, including the shop rates, gravy jobs, $hit work, etc.

Very interesting that as much as things change, they also stay the same.

It is a pleasure knowing you on the internet and you're a valuable asset to all of us.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-26-2010, 06:20 AM
buynissan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Great

Really Thanks Guys for this nice Thread, I add this to my links and also to the contributors that share their knowledge really thanks also
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-26-2010, 08:39 AM
MidlifeXJR's Avatar
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Snohomish, WA
Posts: 590
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Real Tech, thanks for the great laugh dude! I hadn't bothered to look at this sticky yet, and this is the best read I have had in a long time.

You should start writing for a living so that you can make up some of that unpaid time as software test engineer that seems to be sorely lacking by the authors of your beloved "approved, recommended, IDS/WDS/SDD."

Thanks again!
__________________

2000 XJR - Anthracite on Warm Charcoal
2001 BMW 740I M Sport
2002 Excursion Limited
1999 XJR - Meteorite on Warm Charcoal (deceased)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-11-2010, 10:03 AM
in2 in2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SE London/Kent border
Posts: 83
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Great reading!!! Man am i SO glad I got out of the motor trade..but my industry is heading the same way real fast (or at least the heating side is)..
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-07-2010, 01:02 AM
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Downers Grove, IL
Posts: 109
Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Ok, so I read/skimmed through this and at the risk of being shot, or worse, flamed, I am still uncertain as to what IDS/SSD/WDS stands for. I want to know even if I never truly understand.
__________________
Cheers
____________________________________________
2004 Black on Ivory VDP
Chicago (Western Suburbs)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-07-2010, 07:34 AM
Brutal's Avatar
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sugar Land /Houston, Texas
Posts: 5,809
Thanked 1,089 Times in 770 Posts
BILL BRUTON
Default

Ids=idiots diagnostic system
sdd=systematic dollar deductor
wds=we dont share
__________________
Working for those that do not every day
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Brutal For This Useful Post:
Dejan Stojanovski (11-26-2013)
  #18  
Old 12-07-2010, 08:53 AM
joycesjag's Avatar
Veteran Member

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sunny South Carolina
Posts: 6,018
Thanked 831 Times in 668 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal View Post
Ids=idiots diagnostic system
sdd=systematic dollar deductor
wds=we dont share

Thanks for the chuckles brutal!!!!!!
__________________
Happy Wrenching

Rick

2005, S Type 3.0
71,781 miles
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-08-2010, 09:25 PM
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Downers Grove, IL
Posts: 109
Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutal View Post
Ids=idiots diagnostic system
sdd=systematic dollar deductor
wds=we dont share
... drum roll ...

and the real answer is........
__________________
Cheers
____________________________________________
2004 Black on Ivory VDP
Chicago (Western Suburbs)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-09-2010, 08:41 AM
Brutal's Avatar
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sugar Land /Houston, Texas
Posts: 5,809
Thanked 1,089 Times in 770 Posts
BILL BRUTON
Default

Oh alright....
Integrated diagnostic systems
worldwide diagnostic systems
symptom driven diagnostics
__________________
Working for those that do not every day
Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2010, 08:41 AM
 
 
 
Reply



Tags
calibration, download, ecm, epqr, files, forum, hacked, ids, idssdd, jaguar, jauar, problem, reflash, screen, sdd, wds



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
Our Sponsors
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 AM.

Copyright © 2010 Internet Brands, Inc. All rights reserved.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
JAGUAR and its logo are the registered trademarks of Jaguar Cars Limited. Jaguar Cars Limited is not affiliated with JaguarForums.com.