Hello and greetings to all!

I have a 1964 Daimler that is a restoration project.
But there has been difficulty in getting it to start.

I replaced the starter button ( the original literally disintegrated upon touch ).
Connectivity was checked before and after installation. Everything was connecting. I I measured voltage into and out of the starter button: 12 volts.

BUT when I measured voltage out from the starter button out to the starter relay INSIDE the engine compartment, I only get 5.50 volts. I've re-connected the wires three times with the same volt results. Bad connection?

Told this same scenario to some guys, and they said to by-pass the entire wire harness and put in a new line directly from the new starter button into the engine compartment and onto the starter relay directly. Good idea?

And here are some photos of the project. Should I clean all the connections in the photographed wire harness area? If so, how and with what products? What should and shouldn't I do if I clean out this wire harness area?

Many thanks for any and all insights.

 

Welcome again.

SWEET car that, dont rehash too much, they are so rare, and sooooooo nice.

I would be using an OHM meter on the wire FROM the button TO the starter solenoid, and check for a high resistance (wire unplugged of course). If that is found, then MAYBE a new wire outside the loom to do that task, but only as a last resort. The wiring in those days was heaps better than what we got later in the years.

2nd, unplug that wire at the solenoid, and check the voltage again, dont let it short out, and if you get 12v +/- with it unplugged, it may be a bad solenoid, now that is common, especially it the tin plate that covers it from above is missing, and water has got in.

 

It may be just the quality of the pictures, or quality of my eyes, but do we see a number of bare connectors waving about in space? (crimp spades & PT's?)
While the ones I see all appear to be in air, I suspect when the panel is closed they get 'smooshed'* against Stuff.
Energized bare conductors making up their own circuits is always exciting, but not in a fun way.


(Also may be suspects in your voltage drop)


Or I'm seeing things & will go back to lurking!


* Authentic Jaguar tech term.

 

Daimler, having a wire with lower than expected voltage can be caused by 3 things in a vehicle of that age. The least likely (and normally the most obvious) is having wires that the insulation is lacking and it is ultimately powering more things that it should be, resulting in the wiring: 1) turning on multiple things that are not related, and 2) the wiring getting vehicle warm as it is being overloaded and is essentially acting like a toaster element and getting way too warm (I think you can see where this gets very ugly). The higher possibility thing that can happen is as wiring ages and gets bent over and over through engine vibration, engine maintenance, etc, a portion of the wiring can develop a higher resistance (we are normally only talking in the range of ohms, not an out and out broken wire). This acts just like adding a resistor in series with the wiring. As you pass current through the wire, this higher resistance point will start dropping voltage and create a warm spot in the wiring (in extreme case, can get back to the toaster element condition). The most likely is simply old/dirty switch contacts. Sometimes repeated use of the contacts will result in cleaning of the contacts and fix the situation. Sometimes the only fix is a new switch/relay.

To figure out what you are dealing with here, you will need to do a few checks. I would start with connecting a multimeter on the output of the ignition switch that goes to the starter (connect the black lead to ground so you have a common reference). Note the voltage going to the starter. This should be up in the 11.0 to 12.0 VDC range. Next, move the red lead to the power input to the ignition switch that feeds the contacts for the starter. Attempt to start the engine again. Note this voltage. This voltage should be less than 1.0 VDC above the first voltage taken. If you are seeing a greater than 1.0 VDC drop across the ignition switch, then the contacts are a source of problem and need to be replaced/cleaned. If you are getting a voltage less than 11.0 VDC at the input to the ignition switch, then you have a piece of wiring with an internal resistance between the fuse box and the ignition switch. Unfortunately, without specialized equipment, the fix for this is running a new wire between the fuse box and the ignition switch.

Finally, remeasure the voltage on the wire from the ignition switch at the point it goes to the starter. This should be within 1.0 VDC of the first voltage measurement you took. if it isn't, then you have a high resistance wire (assuming you are not noticing other electrical stuff coming on, if you are, then you need to figure out what is causing that first and then restart with the checks). Again, if you have a high resistance wire, replacing it will be required.

One last thing to do that may save you some time in the long run. Take a look at all the connections. if the lugs are rusty and when you remove the fastener, the rust runs under the fastener and is in the area where the post, the lug, and any other lugs meet, then take a wire brush, sandpaper, other abrasive device and remove the rust. Make sure that the lugs/posts/fasteners are making good electrical contact. This can give you the high resistance wire result.

I know wiring in older vehicles can be challenging at times because you never know what someone before you has done and some times the simpliest things make life torturous.

 

Grant Francis, Thermo, CourtneyWood and Everyone Else --

Thank you for all the responses and guidance.
Your insights are appreciated.
I haven't had a chance to do all the suggested actions yet.
Work and such has me out most nights until after midnight.

This is all new to me.
I have yet to learn all the history of Jaguar let alone Daimler.
( I'm still learning proper pronunciation of Daimler ).
And I'm in the USA, and as Winston Churchill had said ( and I paraphrase ),
" The US and England are connected and separated by a common language."

So as I read the posts, I suspect many are from England, Australia, and other English speaking origins that have different usages and words.
It may take me a bit of time to understand.
I'm slow on the uptake.

All your assistance is truly appreciated.
I've spoken with some local mechanics and such. Most won't touch a Jaguar, PERIOD. Too difficult. One told me Lucac Electrical is Lucifier's Playground. Tread lightly.

But I'll do my best.
I had no idea if this model is rare.
I saw one by sheer chance in a local junk yard about three years ago.
I came back two days later, and it was crushed to be melted into slag.
I still cringe.

Regards!

 

daimler, remember, the front cover over the engine is a bonnet (or a hood as we call it here in the US). The rear has a boot (or a trunk as we call it). You normally use your DIP beams (or we call them low beams). If you need more light, then you use your main beams (or high beams as we call them). You will figure it out shortly.

The one thing that I forgot about and you may fall into this category is that early Jags were wired a little differently. 99% of cars are wired so the negative battery terminal is attached to the body of the car. But, I am wondering if you might not have a vehicle where they run the battery positive to the body of the car and then switch all the negative wires to make things work. There is some logic to this if you understand the 2 kinds of currently flow that are taught. The ideas are the same, it is all in the direction that things happen. If you need me to go more into this alternate way of wiring cars, let me know. I deal with wires all day long. I run into things like this periodically.

 

Okay, Jaguarians, I got the 1964 Daimler engine to turn over and run.
I'm not real proud of the method, but the engine runs, finally.

I took everyone's advice and tried the various methods.
Still only got 5.6 volts when I wired from the starter button out to the existing wire that goes to the starter relay. I don't know why... frustrating....broken wire somewhere? I don't know...

So I took the advice of a computer engineer who I had met, and I snaked into the console from under the driver's aide and back out to the engine compartment. Took the wire and connected it to the starter relay and directly to the starter button's out wire.

Sprayed engine starter into the air intake, turned the ignition key, pushed the starter button, and HUMMMM! First crank, I heard a strong engine!

Not proud of the method, and still need to make the wire secure all around, inside and out. But the engine started!

Will post pics when I can.
Please read and comment on this and the Gas tank post.

Cheers!

 

Welcome to the forum 1964Daimler,

I've moved your thread from General Tech Help to MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler forum.

Please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST forum and post some info about yourself and your vehicle for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice about posting to the forum.

Graham

 

Whilst crimped wiring connections are useful in emergencies, I would never trust them in a permanent set-up, especially using old wiring. And they simply look fugly.

Just my two bob's worth!