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  #1  
Old 10-23-2009, 05:48 AM
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Default 4 Wheel Alignment

Just a little tidbit. I has been bounced around that there is a fairly common issue of excessive inner tire wear on the S. So, I had my car in for a go over by the dealer, and everything came back OK. I was joking with the service manager that they didn't check the tires, since they were wearing slightly on the inside. After a bit of back and forth about obsessive / compulsive issues , we got down to the actual cause. He stated that it is very common and has to do with the handling characteristics of the car. In order for the car to handle the way it does, they set the suspension up with a slight "toe out" that will case a slight wear to the inside tread. So, that made some sense to me. I had already made an appointment to have a four wheel alignment done at a shop that specializes in suspension work, not a normal tire shop. I explained to them the tire wear but didn't tell them what the dealer said. When I got the car back, they repeated the "fraction of a degree of toe out" spec but stated that they didn't agree with that practice and set the car to a neutral setting. They felt that would stop the inside tire wear and not adversely impact handling. Well, it is to soon to tell if the wear has stopped, but the car tracks better than before the alignment and it still handles the turns the same as it always has, even under my "spirited" driving style.
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  #2  
Old 10-23-2009, 07:04 AM
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Interesting post Jeff. Do you get any judder at all? Does the stearing wheel sit straight and is there any drift?
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:06 AM
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Nope; No drift (funny you asked that, because I was looking for that with them changing things like they did.) Steering wheel is straight. No judder or vibration other than what is caused by tires / road surface. I know it is a combination of both because the ever so slight vibration comes and goes based on what road I'm on.... Refer back to obsessive / compulsive reference in my previous post. The vibration I feel almost no one else would feel or complain about.
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:22 AM
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Hi Jeff,

One thing I've noticed with my S-Type is that it tracks dead straight with no wander. It is a little heavy at highway speeds which I attribute to the speed sensitive steering function. I seem to recall that Brutal developed an alignment method and specs which accounted for the dynamic stresses of normal driving slightly better than the factory settings. Perhaps he can shed some light on what his findings were.

Mike
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Old 10-23-2009, 09:41 AM
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Jeff, you didn't receive any advise from other forums or junkyards BEFORE you went against specs?
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2009, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by joycesjag View Post
Jeff, you didn't receive any advise from other forums or junkyards BEFORE you went against specs?
Nope, just discovered that water leaks onto the suspension and causes premature inside tire wear on Jaguars and Lincolns. And the mean and evil dealership is out to steal my money......

Man, Stop It.... You make me do this all the time... Your just wrong!
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:12 AM
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Why do you talk to a service manager that is many times clueless!!!!
I hope my boss doesnt go here
That statement from the svc mngr is BS. And again its worth repeating

the specs Jaguar originally came out with for the 2000-2002 are wrong, (doesnt apply to 03 and up, but still follow my merecedes rec below cause that does apply) too much toe out that did and does wear out the inside of the front tires.(does the same thing onXJ8 04-09) Jaguar changed the specs to add more toe in. But the old specs are stilll loaded in the machines even with current software updates from Hunter. Ours still shows the wrong specs if you pull up Stype, you have to manually select the saved updated specs I put into our machines 5-6yrs ago. This is why I still tell friends and customers to let me do their alignments and not go somewhere else, cause theyll get the wrong specs. As yes I still consider Mercedes alignment recommendations of usinf a pressor bar(my hands and arms to push out on the inside of the front tires) to check toe setting after you initially set it to make sure it doesnt move to far toe out. This is what it will do on the road and I think all alignments should be done this way since it allows for comphensating for differences and play in and suspension movement when there is nothing wornout. Again, I look at what the tires show me as far as wear patterns and then look at the BEFORE measurement o the align to figure out what is the best way to set up the suspension from there.
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:29 AM
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Thanks Brutal...
I talk with him because I've asked questions before and he's gotten a shop tech to answer it because he didn't know... But, I don't disagree with you that he may have done it this time. That is good information that you provided. A little more from the shop I used. They said that the specs that they use do come from a source (not named) and could very well be out of date, but that it is rare (that too could be them blowing smoke). But, like you stated, the one thing that I was pleased with is that they say they tune the alignment to the car they are working on. Thanks again for adding some additional information that should help all here.

Now I really need to get back to work!
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
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Now I really need to get back to work!
no doubt, that been 30 minutes typing this morning
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:05 PM
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Brutal-

I have a 2005 S-Type 3. Are you saying the settings on the alignment machines are correct for this year and model?

Eric
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOsworth View Post
Nope; No drift (funny you asked that, because I was looking for that with them changing things like they did.) Steering wheel is straight. No judder or vibration other than what is caused by tires / road surface. I know it is a combination of both because the ever so slight vibration comes and goes based on what road I'm on.....
That is reassuring as it is exactly the same for me. I hate cars where the stearing wheel sits squint when you drive straight.
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOsworth View Post
Nope, just discovered that water leaks onto the suspension and causes premature inside tire wear on Jaguars and Lincolns. And the mean and evil dealership is out to steal my money......

Man, Stop It.... You make me do this all the time... Your just wrong!
Miagi, you do realize, that wasn't daniel-son.
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  #13  
Old 10-23-2009, 02:23 PM
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Miagi, you do realize, that wasn't daniel-son.
Yes I do... That was the good Ricky-son messing with me....Like he always does.....
I'm just scared that he's gonna start one of those silly back and forth things that we do..

Then it'll turn this thread to three pages of BS.....

See..I did it again.... It's all you're fault.....
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Last edited by JOsworth; 10-23-2009 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 10-24-2009, 01:48 AM
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AHHH Ricky-son,
Thank you Brutal for your insight yet again!!!! And no mention of black silicone!
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:46 AM
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I expected slight inside-tread tire wear from Day One with our 2005 S-Type 3.0 after all my research indicated that this is a characteristic of proper Jaguar alignment set-up. I've been pleasantly surprised that after more than 17,000 miles being put on the car since we purchased it last December, all four tires are wearing perfectly even. I run them at 34 psi year-round and rotate them at every oil & filter change (6,000-mile intervals)....
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  #16  
Old 10-24-2009, 10:46 AM
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JOsworth you sound like me!! Have you considered getting the tires and wheels "Road Force" Balanced?? Take a look at this link. I have found it does make a difference but for most people it is so small they can't really tell anything?

http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/features/how.cfm
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  #17  
Old 10-24-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird6 View Post
JOsworth you sound like me!! Have you considered getting the tires and wheels "Road Force" Balanced?? Take a look at this link. I have found it does make a difference but for most people it is so small they can't really tell anything?

http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/features/how.cfm
.
.
.
The shop I took it to does that. They also have the equipment to do a "on the car" balance. The last time I saw that was when I lived in Jersey! The said that they were doing the road force balance first, and if that didn't fix it, then they would look at doing it on the car. It's nice to know I'm not alone... Nice link BTW. I'm sure there are a few on here who have heard of a road force balance but don't know what it is.
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85 Dodge 600es Turbo Conv.; all original w/ 41k

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Old 10-24-2009, 10:43 PM
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I've replaced tires on 2 of the Jags I've owned. For some reason, the tire shops here can not balance 17" wheels properly. In both cases, I ended up at the Jag dealer who uses a road force balancer, and, they did a perfect job.

Regards:
Oldengineer
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:43 PM
 
 
 
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