I am trying to decide if I need to buy a set of snow tires for Midwest winters. My car has brand new OEM 19" rubber (ContiProContact) and I would like some real world experiences with our cars using the stock tire setup in the snow and ice.

I realize that if things get deep, and having a low slung ride can cause its own set of issues that even snow tires wouldn't help much, my main goal is to see if the OEM setup is ok for a inch or two, morning ice, normal plowed road coverage, etc.

Any experiences welcomed.

 

I would never try to drive on ice or snow with stock tires. I fit Pirelli Sottozeros all round.

I have tried the stock (18 in in my case) Conti Pro all seasons on ice and snow and they are quite good for an all season tire. You'll get by. However, it only takes one emergency braking session on all seasons to sell you a set of winters. Saves clean up of the driver's seat also if you fit winters in November. 8-)

 

And BTW the XF is not low slung. There is plenty of ground clearance unless the snow depth gets above about a foot ( less if it is wet snow). The main issue is with torque control. Use the "winter" setting on the transmission control and if loose snow is about select TRAC on the traction control. For really tricky conditions try Sport mode and manually select the highest gear the transmission will accept, second for moving off and higher if already moving.

 

My car is absolutely un-drivable in any snow at all with the standard summer rubber...but they are not all seasons. And I do mean un-drivable....like pull over and call a cab.

 

I have 19" Conti ProContact all season tires on a 2010 Premium like you and I chose not to buy snow tires. Using winter mode, I made it through three winters with no problem -- and one of them was the worst in history (2010-2011). Having used dedicated snow tires on my last Jaguar and various RWD BMWs, I'm well aware of the benefits of snow tires vs. AS tires, but the 19" Conti's are quite good in light snow (3-4") and ice. That being said, whether you need to buy snow tires depends on your circumstances (how many miles to work each day and whether you have the option to work from home due to snow) and what other vehicles you have available to you if you do need to get around in heavier snow conditions. Unlike what I've heard regarding XFs with 20" tires, you will not be completely stuck in just a few inches of snow.

 

I don't mean this in any offense way, but usually when people start talking about snow tires , usually just means they need to improve their driving skills. (unless you live in a place when it snows 10" a day)

I have never used snow tires on any of my cars - just high performance all season tires. Just like Long Islander mentioned, we had a very bad snow season and i had no problems whatsoever with my Toyo Proxes S4s on my LS.

 

Not true. In fact, with good driving skills you can fool yourself more easily into thinking you don't need winter tires. Two Provinces in Canada have been forced to legislate mandatory winter tire fitment partly due to this effect.

No driving skill in the World can improve contact patch friction, that is purely physics. No driving skill in the World can stop your car on ice any shorter than the tires you have chosen to fit.

With traction control and ABS, and particularly awd, confident drivers can now have much bigger accidents when their tires do let go.

Then there is the scientifically proven temperature effect. When ambient temperatures dop below 40F (7C) then your summer tires don't even grip as well as winter tires on bare and dry pavement.

No offence but you don't realize how wrong you are. Good luck this coming winter, you'll need it.

 

Exactly what I was going to say. You have 4 contact patches with the ground.....and your tread and compound is the only way to improve it. I have spent 27 years driving in every winter condition possible in just about every vehicle configuration...front wheel, rear wheel, AWD, trucks, sports cars, high horsepower, low horsepower. I have foolishly driven through winters with all wheel drive and summer tires....just because I could (Audi s4). The only vehicle I would consider driving without dedicated snows is a truck with heavy m+s treads.

Yes you can get by, but you are endangering yourself, your passengers and others on the road. You may never have an issue....but why would you flirt with it? It may be the difference between steering retained for an extra 10 feet, or a braking action that gets you 5 feet shorter.....why would you question it? $ outlay shouldn't be an issue as they are wear items....the ones off the car aren't wearing.

 

I drive in central new york (snow country) and had a BMW X5 with all seasons for 7 years and lived on a steep hill. This is a fairly heavy vehicle. Once the all seasons started wearing there was a noticeable difference in traction. I did the same with previous Nissan Pathfinders, not ever using winter rubber. I would not do it with an XF.

 

Hmmm ... consider that a 2nd gen Firebird T/A with 455cid and lsd on 60 profile summer radials had *no* problems in the snow conditions prevalent in the late 70's. The amount and type of snow found in Calgary or Aurora would have been considered a light dusting.

The original tires were Firestone belted F60x15. Perfectly adequate on a 500+ mile blast through a snow emergency covering the route from Washington DC through Vermont and beyond.

 

Comparing old vs. new in this discussion is not really apples to apples.

Back when 95% of cars were RWD and the rest were 4x4 pickups. Everybody knew how to drive in bad weather in RWD cars. The road speeds were slower, breaks had extreme limitations to what we have today. Road plow crews took days to dig out of 8+" of snow. And the shear amount of cars on the road compared to today means you had tons of room to maneuver if things got hairy.

Today, you don't have to only control your car but have to avoid the rest of the a-holes out there that are over-driving the conditions and vehicles.

Having a bit more control, with the amount of cars on the road today and the lack of driver training in poor conditions is very important.

My personal situation is that for the last 10 years, I have owned 100% of AWD vehicles. Before that was a 93 Vette 6 speed, 5 Trans Ams (76,78,81,81,88 in that order) and others. I used to drift the Vette around cloverleaf on ramps and take the TA's out in the worse snow storms just to see what I could get through. It was a blast, but that was before wife, kids, and a job that allows me to have some fun toys.

The reason for my original question here is that after 10 years af advancements in RWD tech and rubber advancements, I was wanting to have real world comments on the stock All Season rubber on our cars.

After reading the responses and thinking more on it, I have decided to stay the course and get some cheap 18" wheels and some snow rubber so I can be a bit more reactive and safe in bad weather.

 

First, he doesn't live in Canada.
Second, i never said put on summer tires on a vehicle and drive in cold weather.
Third, rubber tire is rubber tire. Just because someone calls it "snow tires" doesn't mean,it's going to stop your car on ice specifically. Just like you say driving skills won't make a difference, rubber tires won't do crap on ice either. That's a fact.

Thanks, but i don't believe in luck.

 

I have started to run snow tires year round. Yes really. They are great in wet and cold weather and I am sick of swapping them out twice a year. I just wait until spring and buy used ones no one wants. My super V8 came on a new set of blizzaks and I could not be happier. The only vehicles without snows are the rovers and both of them have all terrains with the snowflake symbol on them (which means they are suitable for extreme weather and just not marketed as snow tires). All that being said, my lotus did fine with just snows in the rear (new lotus is getting parked once it snows as the heat in those things is terrible -- none the less I run conti DWS s is for snow although not a true snow tire year round) and my BMW 530i on stock conti all seasons which are the same tires as on jags was fine but the dynamic stability control got a serious work out.

One freak ice storm and you will never run summer tires again. And yes the compound is key. A soft compound that does well in cold and a tread with lots of sipes is critical for safe driving. Critical! Some all seasons are ok (contis I like). Others, not so much.

 

No, rubber is not rubber. Try a simple exercise: Clean your summer and snow tyres (no more than 5 years old) and simply feel how rubbery the tread feels at say -10C. Then go out on a snowy /icy stretch of road or better a large deserted parking space. Try stopping from a given speed and note stopping distance. Then try driving at e.g 10km/h in a circle without sliding on any wheel. Compare the diameter of that circle after doing the same exercise with the other set of tyres. Ditto the stopping exercise. Come back and tell us the result including types of tyres. BTW, all season are obviously in between but can never be as good as either specialised tyre at the height of summer or depth of winter.

 

There's none so blind as them that will not see, as my grandma used to opine.

Rubber is not rubber, ask a formula one driver sometime.

I too just ran a set of nearly worn out winter tires all summer, my Pirelli Sottizeros got down to 5 mm (6/32) and were noticably deficient in our last winter so left them on.

A worn snow tire is better in summer than any summer tire is in winter. Apart from a little whining the winter tires were great as long as it wasn't actually 90F out. When very hot they went a little squishy in the corners.

Radial snow tires came out when I was a young driver. Before then a radial summer was so superior to any bias tire, belted or not, we used radial summers in preference to belted winters! However, I got a set of the first "studless" Continental Contact tires. I have never tried to drive in winter on summer tires since then, 1975. Except once, I drove an Alfa Romeo GTV6 on Pirelli P6 summer tires year round for two winters. But, I also had a SAAB 99 with four Pirelli snow tires for when it actually snowed. The Alfa handled really well on snow, it just wouldn't go, stop or steer......

 

Still talking about summer tires i see. When did that get into discussion....

I don't have to ask anybody. Just because someone has been in a certain profession, doesn't mean they know more.

 

But 35 years of driving all sorts of cars with all sorts of tyres in temperatures ranging from -45C to +35C does give you a certain knowledge base. And as I said above rubber is not rubber. Nor is pattern pattern. The tiny "cracks" that open up in snow tyres are vital for securing a bit of extra grip, no such slots in summer and rarely in "all season" tyres. If you think my experience is too limited to be significant, google tyre tests form e.g ADAC, NAF, SAK etc (use google translate if you. only speak english.)

Personally I always avoid the 3 first hours of the morning with the first snowfall here. Lots of people caught out with summer tyres and still trying to drive to work. It is quite entertaining: The ditches are littered with cars and most intersections with at least one steep incline leading into the intersection see at least one prang. Quite amusing, never any injuries but lots of crumpled metal.

I often hear people saying that "I drive well so it doesn't happen to me". Problem is that even at the best of times your reserves of grip for stopping is much less if your footwear is not fit for purpose. And that applies albeit to a lesser degree to "all season" tyres too. They are after all all season so must behave better when really hot than snow tyres. It is also a measurable fact that snow tyres offer less grip in hot weather (particularly for high speed work if they comply with the speed rating at all). Finally water planing resistance is less.

It is really quite simple: If a manufacturer could bring onto the market a tyre that was as good as summer tyres and winter tyres under all conditions for the same money as "normal" tyres they would be onto a winner. They might sell a few tyres less to existing customers (but not many, most tyres get scrapped when worn out not because they get too old) OTOH they would grab customers from all competitors by the shedload.

Horses for courses says I

 

I enjoy the debate you guys are having and thought I would chime in. I also enjoy the different views of what winter actually is. I recently purchased a 2009 XF NA and have only owned it for 3 weeks or so (obviously never driven in winter), I love it, that aside, here is my view on your topic.

I do not have 35 years driving experience nor have I ever owned winter tires HOWEVER, I do live in a place where we can get 2 feet of snow overnight and the temperatures can sometimes hit -60C (with the wind; -45C without) and schools do not close, work continues, and people still drive as if it was just another day.

IMO the tires are made up of different materials and if you buy winter tires they will stay softer in colder temperatures than all-seasons. All-seasons will be better than summers. If this is true then you will have greater stopping power and yes it will potentially save a crash or worse.

HOWEVER, IMO no matter what type of tires you have on your vehicle you have a chance of this happening. The problem with winter tires is it gives a lot of people a false sense of security. They (generalizing) will then drive faster because they can, hit black ice and then it doesn’t matter what tires you have on. This is why during the winter you can see cars with winters on, 4x4 trucks, or even semi’s getting in accidents or stuck in the ditch.

It all comes down to driving style and knowing your limits. If you drive fast and want to stop fast then get winters, if you drive sensible when the snow flies then you will be fine. This might be where driver skill comes into play. Having snow on the ground here for over 6 months of the year it might give someone like myself a little more “skill” (or brains as I call it) than people in the southern US that get snow once every 6 years and its about 1” and lasts 2 hours and think they can drive exactly the same as when it’s +25C.

10 XF you will NOT get stuck with all-seasons…will it save a crash, maybe…but just slow down and you’ll have no troubles.

 

I havent yet but on my last 09 XF it had the summer only Dunlops and even in a dusting of snow it wouldnt move. Now my XFR has all season pilot sports A/S and they are brand new so lets hope they do something this year?????

 

All season tires are defined by the land/sea ratio. That's it. No special rubber compound is required and there are no performance requirements. Just a certain ratio of rubber tread to voids.

All season tires are basically summer tires with aggressive tread. Good quality all seasons also give you more appropriate rubber compounds. High performance all seasons won't grip very well in winter but at least they grip cold roads better.

Winter tires must meet a specific performance requirement to bear the mountain snowflake symbol.

The sense of security you get driving on winter tires is real, not false. However, you can drive much faster in winter on winter tires so you can get in over your head.