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  #1  
Old 07-11-2010, 06:50 PM
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Default Convertible popping fuses

I got the car back from servicing Friday and used the convertible top that night--no problems! Today I wanted to put the top down and the only thing that happened was the quarter windows went down--no sound from pump. I checked and the 40amp fuse was burned out. So I stuck in another fuse, tried again, and that fuse promptly burned out.

Any ideas or just suck it up and go back to the dealer again?

Doug
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:12 PM
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Did the dealer do anything in the rear of the car? Did they disconnect the power?
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:09 PM
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Doug,
Not sure about this but I am thinking that your pump may have maintained a buildup of pressure (head pressure) and that might be the reason for the not moving and blowing fuses. If I recall when Walt and I were talking about the pump and the way it operates we discovered it operates like a rotary engine to move the hyd fluid. Turn the petcock to equalize the pressure then close it and try it again. I do not have the old pump I gave it to Walt for the pressure valve. If this does not work let me know.
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XK8 1999 126,000mi K&N Filter, S-Type 2000 3.0 108,000mi K&N Filter
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:58 PM
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I went through 2 fuses and one time I opened the petcock to manually open and close the latch just in case it was a stuck latch. As I said, the same night I picked it up from the dealer the top worked fine. I opened it for a short drive and then closed it up about 15 minutes later--absolutely no problems that I could detect.

Today, it seemed that both times I tried (i.e., both fuses) there was not even any sound from the pump. My impression was the fuse blew before the pump even had a chance to try working.

The fluid level looks fine and the top apparently worked fine at the dealer (I had told them to check the latch for proper lubrication) and also that same night. I wonder if something is locked up from the closing that I did Friday night, but I am out of fuses right now.

Doug
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:08 PM
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You know when you take it back to the dealer he's going to tell you that the fuse problem was just a coincidence, and it is not related to the service that was done in any way.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:16 PM
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Sounds like you have an internal pump motor short. This is about the only reason i have ever had to change pumps
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:18 PM
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My only concern is what they might say about the LSI pressure relief valve that is now on the pump. I really don't believe there could be any possible connection if it turns out that the motor has a short, and I do not want to go through the hassle of uninstalling the relief valve before bringing the car in.

Doug
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:33 PM
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Is it under warranty? If not, then take it in with the valve installed. It's your car, you can do what you want with it and the dealer can't do s***. If it is under warranty, you should definitely take it off.
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:37 PM
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It would be under the SE warranty but one of the things I had the dealer check when it was in the other day was operation of the convertible top. It was one of the entries on the work order and they stated that the top operated normally. I assume they worked the top several times without problems (I was specifically asking them to check for binding of the latch).

Doug
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:54 AM
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If you suspect the pump, let's get it out of the picture.
Disconnect the pump and try again.

On an '04 it is connector with Black and white wires.
An '05 should be the same.

Operation will cease at the same point (waiting for top movement)
but the fuse should be intact.

Could be a seized motor or pump, shorted motor or a relay (two involved)
problem.
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:16 AM
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I like Fred’s idea to remove the plugs from the pump and see if the fuse blows. Everything related to the roof operation must go through the Security and the Body control modules and a series of switches. Did the shop do anything that might be related to the roof pump?

After Thought: If the fuse does not blow connect everything and replace the relay and try it again. If necessary swap the top up with the down relay.

Check out page #5 & #9 http://www.gusglikas.com/images/Auto...s/501-11am.pdf
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Last edited by Gus; 07-12-2010 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:09 AM
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Fred/Gus--let me understand a few things.

First question not related to either of your suggestions but in an otherwise normally operating system, if you open the petcock and operate the convertible toggle switch, should you hear the pump running but nothing will happen? Is there any harm in testing the motor in this fashion (i.e., relieving pressure on the system)?

Fred--so on my 2005 there are some wires that run to the rear of the rack and there is a connector plug there (this is one of the plugs I disconnected when I installed the LSI kit). So you are saying that I should get a new fuse and install it, disconnect those wires, and then try the roof switch? If the fuse blows what does that tell me; also if the fuse does NOT blow what does that tell me.

Gus--where are these relays that you are talking about--on the top of the pump?

Doug
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeismicGuy View Post
Fred/Gus--let me understand a few things.

First question not related to either of your suggestions but in an otherwise normally operating system, if you open the petcock and operate the convertible toggle switch, should you hear the pump running but nothing will happen? Is there any harm in testing the motor in this fashion (i.e., relieving pressure on the system)?

NO HARM


Fred--so on my 2005 there are some wires that run to the rear of the rack and there is a connector plug there (this is one of the plugs I disconnected when I installed the LSI kit). So you are saying that I should get a new fuse and install it, disconnect those wires, and then try the roof switch? If the fuse blows what does that tell me; also if the fuse does NOT blow what does that tell me.

IT TELLS You the pump is internally shorted if the fuse doesnt blow



Gus--where are these relays that you are talking about--on the top of the pump?



those are not relays theyre solenoids

Doug
I answered in your quoted message
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:14 AM
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Pulling the plug (not on top the one to the motor on the side) to the pump motor would and testing would tell you if the problem is in the pump motor or in the wiring to the pump. (If you blow the fuse) You have an open and close relay for the in the trunk fuse box swapping them and test this will eliminate any concerns about them.

Check your PM
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:18 PM
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Well I got some new fuses, disconnected the black and white wire pair at the side of the pump (i.e., motor wires) and operated the toggle switch. The quarter windows went down and chimed. I reversed the switch to raise the quarter windows. The fuse is fine and intact.

So, does this tell me the problem is absolutely with the pump/motor assembly (I have not tried the top again since re-connecting the black/white wire pair).

Doug
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:56 PM
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Yes that is what it sounds like. Look your wire over going to the pump and plug it back in and give it a try. Did you say the motor / pump is under warranty?
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XK8 1999 126,000mi K&N Filter, S-Type 2000 3.0 108,000mi K&N Filter
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:19 PM
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I have the SE warranty and the motor/pump is not specifically listed as an "excluded" item. It is curious that this would be working fine without any signs of problems or warnings one minute and fail the next.

Doug
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:28 PM
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Well Doug that is the way these cars are. I have a pump and a motor available and will need to know if you need it. Send me a PM if you do and I will send it to you. I will need your address.
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XK8 1999 126,000mi K&N Filter, S-Type 2000 3.0 108,000mi K&N Filter
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.-Albert Einstein
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeismicGuy View Post
I have the SE warranty and the motor/pump is not specifically listed as an "excluded" item. It is curious that this would be working fine without any signs of problems or warnings one minute and fail the next.

Doug
That's how motors fail. The coils in a motor are very fine wire wrapped by thin insulation. The insulation eventually rubs through somewhere, and the coil shorts out to the armature. There is no warning.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:20 AM
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Default Relief valve question

Quick question for Gus and/or Walt (or anyone else). I am waiting to hear back from the dealer before bringing the car in but, unless there is some other less obvious weird quirk in the system, the culprit is looking like the motor/pump assembly.

If that is the case, the LSI relief valve will eventually need to be removed from the existing motor/pump and reinstalled on the new one. That being the case, to avoid any possible warranty-rejection issues, I am thinking I should remove the valve prior to bringing the car in to the dealer (otherwise, I can leave it to them to remove and reinstall).

What I was wondering was whether removing the valve was just as easy as installing it--just reverse the instructions? Also, I do not imagine there should be a problem moving the valve to another unit--all the fittings and tubes should be re-usable?

Thanks,

Doug
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:20 AM
 
 
 
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96, convertible, fuse, fuses, hjc8241aa, jag, jaguar, motor, pump, resistance, sailkote, top, valve, xk, xk8



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