First, a thanks to the detailing hints contained on this forum; we got a first in class the first time out in our 2001 XJ8L. It was in the Driven class which is a less rigorous standard.

However, I'm thinking we should go for broke and move up-class next time. From a cosmetic standpoint, it's close now. Since we have only been in one (this) concours, I'm not sure what is in store. For example:

I tossed an upper water hose and hate those simple compression clamps. I want to replace them with proper screw clamps. Would that be a deduction? I'm assuming so, but don't know how big a deal it is. Also, I have a mis-matched spare. I have seven spoke chrome wheels; I think the spare is ten. Anyhow, I wonder if having a proper spare plain rather than chrome is a big deal? I suppose some of this varies by judge, but what's your best guess?

Also, I looked around the web, but didn't see any guides I thought would be useful. Anyone got a link to a concours judging guide?

 

Rick - just recently completed the judges exam and participated in my first concourse as an observer with one of the judging teams. Yes non-standard clamps would be a deduction of 1pt each for a max of 10 pts. All 5 wheels must match as well as the tires. Point deductions on the wheels can be assessed on knock offs (2pts ea), lugs (1pt ea), trim (2pts ea), hubcaps (2pts ea), wheels (6pts ea). Point deductions on spare are 6pts for wheel, 2 for tire, 2 for tire hold down and 4 for spare tire cover.

Check your pm

 

Thanks. I gotta think that through. The spare wheel and tire would not be a problem. I can get a matching wheel, have it chromed or exchange and get a used tire to match the ones on the ground. I can sell the 10 spoke wheel.

The hose clamps? I'll have to think that through. Maybe double clamp them and take off the screw ones for judging? Maybe what happened to me was a freakish thing? There sure doesn't seem to be much clamping force on the hose with those. Yes, I'll have to think that one through.....

Thanks for your assist!

 

Rick,

Before you chrome the wheel, make sure that your chrome wheels were factory installed otherwise you will incur non-authentic penalties which are steep, 6 pts per wheel, max 20 pts..

Many owners believe their chrome wheels are factory fitted when in fact they were put on by the dealers to up their profits. Jaguar generally supplied very few cars with chrome wheels.

Championship class is different in that it also examines the engine bay and trunk. Scoring for the body and interior should be very similar between the two classes. It is a bit harder to be competitive in championship class if you drive your car to the events as many entrants trailer their cars for show purposes. I too am thinking about moving up to championship class next year.

You can check out the complete rule book here. http://www.jcna.com/library/concours...20Contents.pdf

Steve, it was nice meeting you in Columbia

Cheers,

Allan

 

Allan - nice meeting you as well - you have done an excellent job on your Jag. Good point on the non-authentic parts.

 

It seems odd that in Championship class, period accessories would be deducted. Would that, for instance, include windscreens on a 120, a luggage rack on an E and a leaper on the hood of an XJ6? I'd bet my chrome wheels were add ons by the dealer as were probably most on the west coast of the US. The engine compartment and trunk are fine, but I sure could not deal with the point deduction for the wheels. I guess I'll just call it a day and stay in Driven.

 

Rick,

Accessories are fine provided they were offered by the factory for that model/year. So for instance, chrome 5 spoke wheels on a 1995 XJS V12 are fine because Jag offered it as a factory option, however, they would be a deduction on a 1994 XJS V12 because it was never offered by the factory. The same with the leapers, They were never offered on the XJS so would be a deduction. They are allowed though on post 1970 saloons.

The concept is to prepare the cars to look as they did when they rolled off the factory floor.

Cheers,

Allan

 

I got out of the concours judging thing a few years ago so my memory is a bit foggy. But.....

Are the chrome wheels shown in any of the official "Jaguar Accessories" literature, with a Jaguar part number? If so, and if said literature shows them as applicable to 1994 XJS, I think you'd be OK.




The leapers are a strange exception on the saloons. In essence, the only justification for allowing them is that SO many were installed. Is was a case of sheer number overwhelming all else, really.





Which we regularly compromise by changing wheels, adding leapers, etc etc. "Factory floor" is the catch.

To some extent "....to look as they did when they rolled off the factory floor" has become "How they would've looked rolling off the factory floor if we could hand select bits and pieces from the parts catalog to suit our liking"

IMHO the JCNA Concours program is due for major revamping. But that's an entirely different conversation

Cheers
DD

 

"IMHO the JCNA Concours program is due for major revamping. But that's an entirely different conversation

Cheers
DD __________________"

Well, if you feel like it, some of us would be interested in your suggested updating recommendations.

As for me, maybe there is a way I can trace the option list on my 01. I'll do some research to see how doable that is. I suspect they were dealer-installed. Maybe there was a Jaguar USA option on the L. Otherwise, like I said, I'll simply stay in Driven class and enter in some non-JCNA events too.

As to leapers, yes, I added the one on my 74 XJ since it looked so bare compared to my wife's 76 some 30 years ago. I hardly gave show points any thought then; it was just a used car, all be it a Jaguar. Come to think of it, I doubt my pin striping which a majority of them had in SoCal is factory either.

 

There's just too much. I wouldn't know where to begin. Maybe later

I don't say that with bitterness or spite or anything at all like that. I did the concours thing for several years and really enjoyed it. My hat's off to all involved at JCNA and the locals clubs for doing what they do within the existing concours program.

Well....OK...I'll throw out a couple things.

1) A third class above Championship level.
2) An "expert" training/recognition level for judges
3) Willingness to apply meaningful scoring, not feel good scoring
4) Demand a more consistant club-to-club scoring/judging philosophy

#1 and #2 would solve many problems, IMHO

Cheers
DD

 

There are no accessory lists or brochures that I am aware of for the 1994 models for chrome wheels. Not that it is an issue for me as I don't have them, was just using the example to illustrate the point. But yes if you can find some kind of official Jaguar documentation showing the part was authorized you should be able to avoid a penalty.

I certainly would agree with points 2-4, especially point #2. What would be your concept for the class above championship?

I actually would like to see JCNA offer more preservation classes. (there are only two). I think this category is more meaningful in some ways and isn't solely dependent on how deep your pockets are.

Cheers,

Allan

 

As the newby here, I don't think this should be me, but it seems like this subject is ripe enough to toss some suggestions around in a new thread, critique them and consolidate them into a JCNA recommendation. Or, just send them a link. Any takers?

 

JCNA has its own discussion board were the topic comes up fairly often. I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be discussed here but I sorta doubt that any new ground will be covered.

Cheers
DD

 

Something more, well, intense and meaningful that's more in line with Corvette, Porsche, Mustang, etc. club's concours. At minimum, underbody and suspension would have to be included in the judging and the 15-minute time limit for judging would have to be increased.

I've seen high scoring Championship-class Jaguars with filthy and incorrect "nether regions". And I've seen 'em with pristine and correct underbody restorations....very difficult work.... which receive no credit/acknowledgment whatsoever under the present JCNA system

It just ain't right, I tell ya!

The result? In the world of expensive special interest cars a 99.99 point JCNA Championship score is simply less meaningful or significant than a 99.99 point score in the upper levels of, let's say, Corvette NCRS. Why shouldn't JCNA members have the opportunity to compete in a class that is as rigorous, meaningful, and rewarding as other clubs?


Cheers
DD

 

Doug,

You beat me to it . I was about to say the same thing, threads like this one http://www.jcna.com/forums/view.php?Vref=JCNA&Vfnum=021&Vthread=7946 and many others.

As to the super championship class idea, I think that has great merit but would definitely require even better trained judges.

Cheers,

Allan

 

And that is exactly why I as a newby shouldn't lead off....
Thanks for the info. I'll go to JCNA and prowl around.