Low Mileage 2.7 TDVI Broken Crankshaft - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum


Diesel variants - All models Visit here for discussions on diesel powerplants and the impressive torque / mpg figures achievable....

Low Mileage 2.7 TDVI Broken Crankshaft

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 12-29-2017, 01:33 PM
jiffy1111's Avatar
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bedfordshire England
Posts: 19
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Low Mileage 2.7 TDVI Broken Crankshaft

I wonder if anyone can help us with some SENSIBLE help and advice.
We bought our Jaguar Approved 2008 XJ Sovereign from a Jaguar Dealership in December 2011, it had been serviced by Jaguar Dealerships so we continued to use Jaguar Dealerships.
When asked if it was worth while having a car serviced at a Jaguar Dealership a friend of mine who is a Director at a large UK car dealership chain told me "when Jaguar had problems with the first V8's Jaguar replaced for free 10-year-old engines as long as they had been serviced at a Jaguar Dealership"
Our problem is that on the 27th July 2017 the engine stopped dead so I had to get the RAC to take it to my local Jaguar Dealership..
This is the short version, they originally said that the cam belt had slipped but there was a noise coming from the bottom end and they would be investigating, the cam belt on the 2.7 TDVI V6 Diesel needs to be changed at 105,000 miles or 10 years our car is 9 years old and has done just over 66,600 miles.
When they investigated the noise, they said that the oil pump had broken causing the crankshaft to break the and it would cost 15,000 to fix it.
I arranged to have a meeting with the Dealership Service Manager, I was already with the Jaguar Approved Bill of Sale and all of the Jaguar Service History when his opening comment was that "it was unfair what had happened" and that he would be getting on to Jaguar Cars to sort it out saying that it usually took two weeks to give an answer.
The 2 weeks turned into more than two months with Jaguar Cars finally saying that they will not accept any liability for the engine as it is an 8-year-old car, its actually 9 years old but it is a low mileage Jaguar with a Full Jaguar Service History.
I did some of my own investigating and found out that it is a known fault with the 2.7 engine especially the Land Rover version for breaking crankshafts, the reasons given, 1, production problems, 2, the crankshaft main bearing turns cutting off the oil supply which breaks the crankshaft.
http://landyonline.blogspot.co.uk
We have now taken our complaint to the Jaguar Dealership we bought the car from under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as the car is not Fit for Purpose or of Satisfactory Quality and that they sold the car to us with a Known Fault, we received a letter from them with basically the same answer that we had from Jaguar Cars.
We are now taking our fight with the Jaguar Dealership to the Small Claims Court.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-30-2017, 01:12 AM
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 21,605
Thanked 3,104 Times in 2,762 Posts
Default

Horrors! But as you say it's the kind of thing that can happen with the 2.7D - see also threads about the same engine in S-Types (useful for court case).

E.g. https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...s-type-192295/

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/d...estion-187831/

Some of the 2.7 engines it seems to have been failed DPF regen / diesel in the engine oil e.g. 2.7 destroyed itself write off

The 3.0D is a similar engine also with problems e.g. https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ailure-192261/

This site (www.jaguarforums.com) is mainly USA where diesel cars are rare. The 2.7D is mostly used in Europe etc so try JaguarForum.com - The World's # 1 Jaguar Car Forum / JaguarForum.com - The World's # 1 Jaguar Car Forum for more cases.

google can help with searching - it allows just a web site to be searched and it ANDs terms e.g.
site:www.jaguarforums.com crank "2.7"
site:www.jaguarforums.com crankshaft "2.7"
site:www.jaguarforums.com seized "2.7"

(the quotes are to encourage it to think of 2.7 rather than 2 and 7)

You'll find posts like this https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/d...-engine-49261/

Keep us posted.

Last edited by JagV8; 12-30-2017 at 01:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JagV8 For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-02-2018)
  #3  
Old 12-30-2017, 02:12 AM
Etypephil's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Colchester, Budapest.
Posts: 251
Thanked 99 Times in 41 Posts
Default Commiserations.

Given that you have had six years motoring out of the car, the sale of goods act, and the small claims court are unlikely to be of any help to you. Defects manifesting themselves within six months of purchase of a used car are generally considered latent, but after six years, your best hope is ex gratia assistance from Jaguar, it may be worth pressing them further, hinting at poor publicity.
It's a sad fact that diesel vehicles are entirely unsuitable for such low mileage use, and perhaps the salesman / woman should have pointed that out to you at the time of purchase, but your problem remains that it has run for six years and it would cost you a fortune to attempt to show negligence on the part of the dealer, even in the unlikely event that you can prove that you asked for a vehicle suitable for your proposed low mileage use.
Failing belated Christmas spirit from Jaguar, or the dealer, probably your best move is to sell the remains for parts (it will break to at least its pre disaster value), and buy a petrol engined one; they are all reliable, much nicer than the diesel to drive, and with your mileage, you won't notice the small fuel consumption difference.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Etypephil For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #4  
Old 12-30-2017, 04:28 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: knypersley
Posts: 463
Thanked 124 Times in 103 Posts
Default

+1 on the above, and as the car is 9 years old I dont think that you can complain even if its a 'known fault' . Cant be much of an issue if it didn't manifest itself until 9 years of use. What can you buy these days that come with a guarantee that would cover the item past its 9th birthday, that's what extended warranties are for. Im sorry for you plight but sometimes you just need to take it on the chin and move on
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to phanc60844 For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #5  
Old 12-30-2017, 04:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: knypersley
Posts: 463
Thanked 124 Times in 103 Posts
Default

'Horrors! But as you say it's the kind of thing that can happen with the 2.7D - see also threads about the same engine in S-Types (useful for court case).'

Could also go against you as if the information is so widely and easily available, then why didn't the purchaser do their homework and dig up the dirt before they bought? Could be seen as an acceptance of the issue
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to phanc60844 For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #6  
Old 12-30-2017, 05:51 AM
Partick the Cat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 727
Thanked 189 Times in 145 Posts
Default

Sorry to hear that; however I'm bound to say that I agree with Etypephil and Phanc.

If you're a member of the AA or the RAC you could try asking their legal services for their opinion (I know the AA have a legal service, I'm assuming the RAC have one too). However I think it very unlikely that they will disagree with what been said above.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Partick the Cat For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #7  
Old 12-30-2017, 02:15 PM
Partick the Cat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 727
Thanked 189 Times in 145 Posts
Default

Oh and just to add that as JagV8 says, you will get more response by posting in the relevant subforum in Jaguarforum.com (mainly UK and EU based) rather than Jaguarforums.com (mainly North America based, where the diesel was never marketed)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Partick the Cat For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #8  
Old 01-02-2018, 08:45 AM
jiffy1111's Avatar
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bedfordshire England
Posts: 19
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Thanks, Etypephil l got some useful information from the links you gave.
We have taken legal advice from the RAC, Citizen Advice and our household insurance legal cover and we are within the allotted 6 years to make a claim under the Sale of Goods Act 1979.
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that goods must be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose, our 2008 Jaguar XJ Sovereign may be a 9-year-old car but the car has a full Jaguar Service History and has only done 66,645 miles, scarcely high mileage and of satisfactory quality since many other 2.7 diesel engines have done well over 150,000 miles with some having done 250,000 miles. The 2006 Jaguar S Type Sport that I have bought to replace the XJ while we fight our claim has done 104,131 miles and the engine runs and sounds as good as our low mileage XJ.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-02-2018, 09:07 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: knypersley
Posts: 463
Thanked 124 Times in 103 Posts
Default

Hate to burst your bubble but i'm sure its 6 years from new. If it was 6 years from last sale then theoretically you could trade it in then buy it back again and the seller would have to guarantee it for a further 6 years, and thats just unreasonable
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to phanc60844 For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #10  
Old 01-02-2018, 09:32 AM
Mikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Perth Ontario Canada
Posts: 10,993
Thanked 2,182 Times in 1,790 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiffy1111 View Post
"when Jaguar had problems with the first V8's Jaguar replaced for free 10-year-old engines as long as they had been serviced at a Jaguar Dealership"
i wouldn't go around quoting stuff like that.The issue had nothing to do with diesels, crankshafts breaking or where the car had been serviced.

apples and oranges.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mikey For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #11  
Old 01-02-2018, 11:40 AM
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 21,605
Thanked 3,104 Times in 2,762 Posts
Default

Here (England) you'd normally claim from where you bought the item, and the 6 yrs runs from then.

To claim against Jaguar (who do not sell to the public I am fairly sure) would be different laws (since the car wasn't bought from Jaguar). Such details should be very well known by anyone legally competent in the jurisdiction (i.e. England and Wales).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JagV8 For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #12  
Old 01-03-2018, 05:29 AM
Partick the Cat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 727
Thanked 189 Times in 145 Posts
Default

Jiffy

The V8 'saga' was to do with using Nikasil bore liners in engines sold into markets where high sulphur fuel was still sold, and it resulted in hundreds of engines suffering accelerated bore wear.

I've been on this forum, and more importantly the UK one, for over four-and-a-half years and your car is only the third or fourth that has come up with this mode of failure.

Please don't misunderstand my/our misgivings here; we have great sympathy for what has happened and I'm sure we all wish you the best of luck in pursuing your claim, but we aren't the people you need to persuade. Given the number of this type of failure in the X350 personally I think you'll be very lucky to get anywhere. Just sayin'.

Last edited by Partick the Cat; 01-03-2018 at 06:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Partick the Cat For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #13  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:25 AM
jiffy1111's Avatar
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bedfordshire England
Posts: 19
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default My bubble hasn't bust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phanc60844 View Post
Hate to burst your bubble but i'm sure its 6 years from new. If it was 6 years from last sale then theoretically you could trade it in then buy it back again and the seller would have to guarantee it for a further 6 years, and thats just unreasonable
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...-are-my-rights
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-04-2018, 11:29 AM
Partick the Cat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 727
Thanked 189 Times in 145 Posts
Default

If you think it's worth pursuing then by all means go ahead, but by posting here you presumably wanted our opinions, and you've had them.

You will, of course, keep us appraised of your progress ?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Partick the Cat For This Useful Post:
jiffy1111 (01-04-2018)
  #15  
Old 01-04-2018, 03:29 PM
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 21,605
Thanked 3,104 Times in 2,762 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phanc60844 View Post
Hate to burst your bubble but i'm sure its 6 years from new.
It's not.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-04-2018, 03:46 PM
Mikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Perth Ontario Canada
Posts: 10,993
Thanked 2,182 Times in 1,790 Posts
Default

from the link above:

Rejecting a second-hand car

If there's a problem with a second-hand car soon after you've bought it - for example, the car develops a problem you wouldn't expect for its age and mileage, or it turns out not to be what you’d been led to expect - you may have the right to reject it and get your money back.
If you bought the car any time after 1 October 2015, you have only 30 days to reject it and get a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act.
Cars bought before 1 October 2015 would have come under the Sale of Goods Act, which has now been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act. This stated that you must have rejected the car within a reasonable time frame (probably within three to four weeks – less if it was an obvious problem).


You've had this car since 2011. What am I missing?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:39 AM
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 21,605
Thanked 3,104 Times in 2,762 Posts
Default

In terms of rejecting it, nothing.

In terms of it having a serious fault... the longer the time the less the chances / the less the compensation even if successful. (In rather round terms.)

However, as ever, the law (*) is not so blunt or simple. E.g. if it's the case that this engine design is flawed then there's a chance of such as negligence. Particularly if some sort of checks/changes ought to be done e.g. during dealer servicing. And even worse if it's apparent to an expert that Jaguar are avoiding an issue. Etc. (The law allows redress but it can be tough to win.)

(*) of England and Wales (**) i.e. the relevant jurisdiction

(**) bearing in mind EU law

From the faults I've seen with the 2.7D I would never own one. Others don't mind the risks or don't know about them. (Clearly Jaguar know or perhaps are trying not to know.)

Last edited by JagV8; 01-05-2018 at 02:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-24-2018, 06:51 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: casablanca
Posts: 36
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Sorry to hear that
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-24-2018, 09:18 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: knypersley
Posts: 463
Thanked 124 Times in 103 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiffy1111 View Post
And? from that they are pretty much stuffed and the 6 year rule does apply from new, it doesn't roll on every time the vehicle is sold on by a dealer.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-24-2018, 11:38 AM
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 21,605
Thanked 3,104 Times in 2,762 Posts
Default

That would not apply retrospectively. I gather the car was bought before the Act.

Had it been bought since the Act then it would be quite a recent purchase so then recourse might be easier.
Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To Bodykit or not to Bodykit.... that is the question BrownRobin XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 15 10-16-2016 12:35 PM
intro cablecliper New Member Area - Intro a MUST 7 10-11-2016 05:10 AM
Jack the Ripper in a Tuxedo Shearwig F-Type ( X152 ) 14 10-04-2016 11:32 AM
Advice wanted/ long post New Member Area - Intro a MUST 2 01-30-2007 01:44 AM
Transmission problem XJ40 ( XJ81 ) 2 12-10-2006 09:23 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:48 AM.


JAGUAR and its logo are the registered trademarks of Jaguar Cars Limited. Jaguar Cars Limited is not affiliated with JaguarForums.com.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: