Yes. I hope nobody tries, as I'd hate to see perfectly good Jag wasted that way.

No, but few tweaks would be almost certainly required for this.

My guess is that they'd have to tweak cooling (likely oil-related), exhaust manifold layout, injectors, valves, and cam follower designs. They are also likely tweaked transmission torque converter design. That where I'd start looking for differences via part # comparison.

The only way what you say could be true if drive train was limiting factor (ok, so after tune it will be the transmission and not the engine that blows up) and they were forced to cap power because of that.

 

Again; pure conjecture. You're talking about what you THINK they may have done. I'm telling you that that's not what happened and people have checked and verified. Your OPINION of what USUALLY happens (or not) is interesting but completely irrelevant. I'll say it again one last time: there is NO physical difference between the V8S 488/495/510 engine and the V8R 550ps/hp version. Software is 100.00% responsible for the increased (and overstated) difference in output.

Dave

 

What people? Do you have a link or any other hard evidence? That hopefully not provided by the same people trying to sell you tune kits?

Yes, what I have is pure conjecture. I like to call it educated opinion, but you are not obligated to be charitable.

 

Everything that can be said, has been said...and by everybody. All the V8 engines are the AJ-133. All the V6 engines are the AJ-126. All the AJ-133 engines use the same intakes and exhaust except for the SVR titanium exhaust. (I want one of them).

 

Educated opinion or not, you're still wrong. It's not up to me to prove it; many people including Jaguar employees have posted the same thing over and over. I've read everything I could find on these engines and couldn't find ONE reference by Jaguar or anyone else with regards to ANY physical changes to the AJ 133 5.0L V8 used in the F types (and probably all the other platforms too). Don't ya think Jaguar would love to wax on about their new titanium valves or whatever new goodies they've added?.....yet silence other than a new hp rating.

...you said it; pure conjecture.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_AJ-V8_engine

Dave

 

True enough.....you can lead a horse to water and all that. .....I'd like an SVR titanium exhaust too...might be easier to get than a P7 grill? LOL.


Dave

 

It may be hard for you to believe, but you'd best get past that because it's true. There are absolutely no hardware differences between the various JLR versions of the V6 and V8. The output differences are all due to different ECU programming.

This certainly isn't unique to JLR. GM does the same thing w/ the LS engines. They always tune the Corvette versions for more power than the identical engines in the Cadillacs and Camaros.

 

Does the moderator of this forum count? You know, the guy who practically owns the part number catalog. If i'm not mistaken this is the same man that worked with a few people to deconstruct and put an 550 hp R tune into a 495 hp V8S, and it didn't even blow up! I see a history of refusing to believe something because it doesn't fit ones understanding here.

 

This is pointless, I asked for evidence and yet to see any. I am not going to believe that 50HP at the wheels tune is possible without engine or transmission modifications until I see it done and run for few hours on a track without blowing up.

I also would never, no matter all other considerations, would trust remote tuning. Not unless I have spare engine in a crate sitting in my garage taking up space.

 

Time to give up fellas.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. (Albert Einstein)

 

There is plenty of evidence in this forum alone if you search for it. Yet, you're asking us to compile all the references for you, and it just isn't worth the effort.

 

Oh wow...

This thread sure took a turn for the worse.

I'm on my phone running between planes so I don't have the opportunity to write a full reply here and link to the posts where we discussed putting the modified F-Type R tune into the V8S

Which we've done, several times now.

From memory the thread was called "Performance Tune"

I'll be back in a few hours when I get off the next flight.

 

Should I even mention the sharing of the V8 engine block and supercharger, etc with the V6, minus a couple of dummy cylinders? This could start a war!

 

Actually, that's exactly what they do. Case in point - the base V6 and the V6S, exactly the same engine, but lower requested values in the torque driver demand tables = lower output. 100% in the tune.

The V8S - funnily enough I just got off the phone with a Jag dealership employee today who was enquiring about tuning his personal V8S. I mentioned that we had just finished tuning a V8R AWD and he explained to me in great detail that he was already running the V8R settings. They used the JLR dealer interface to flash an 'R' configuration onto the car (since there are zero hardware differences.) First time they did it, they made the mistake of using an AWD file and it wouldn't even start the car. Second time they used a 2WD file and it worked. And it is now making 550BHP.

Furthermore, you can actually flash the project 7 settings onto the 'R' models, all factory settings and get up to 575BHP.

Not only that, but the 'V6' engine is actually a V8 block, with 8 cylinder bores. Yes, you're reading that correctly. There is a plate in the crankcase to block off the rear two cylinders, a crank with extra counterweights at the rear, and a shorter blower and cylinder head. So not only do they 'detune' both the V6 and V8 engines, they actually build the V6 out of the V8 block.

Yup... bunch of reptiles....

 

Hi Charlie,

We have a tune shortly to be made available which has produced 42WHP on an 'R' model. Taking the power output up to around 605BHP at the crank.

The same tune can be applied to your car with the same final output.

We are working on some solutions for OBD tuning - the Viezu option you mention is a programmer called the Powergate 3, from Alientech. We use the same hardware as do many tuners, and once Alientech uploads this to the devices we will be able to deliver via this method as well. It actually stores 5 modified files

In the meantime, we can bench-flash the ECU, and also are working on loaning out tuning tools where possible.

 

Dear SinF, please tell us you are just pulling our chains and having a laugh. There is no way you are actually serious about anything you are saying right now. Just.........no way.

 

Do you have even a rough idea on when you'll be able to roll out those things? The 605hp tune and the powergate?

 

I have done the V8S tune from Eurocharged at ISP. Tune is fantastic, car pulls like a train.





I also had my XKRS done there but that lost all its burps and gurgles, feels too lean to me, still pulls like a train.

I have not a good feeling about ISP. Had lots of disagreements with them, they left a front collision sensor unplugged, left metal shavings all over my engine compartment, damaged my license plate and rear bumper ... not happy, but they got it done....

I also have the V-Switch from Viezu and currently work with them on my XKRS. It took them since last November to get the V Switch to me so the F Type one may well be a while out. I asked them if I could at least make a copy of my F-type file with the V Switch, in case it gets erased or it resets itself which we have experienced but they said not at this point.

Since my XKRS was already tuned by Eurocharged I do not have the original ECU file on hand which Viezu needs to get started they are currently trying to get a copy. I will let you know how it goes, so far I like the tool and size, easy to keep in the car. Can hold the original file and up to 5 different mappings, so you can have a more modest tune for every day driving and a more aggressive one for the weekend. However I am not sure they get as much power out of the car as a dyno tuned one. I would not be able to compare the outcome without getting another dyno and I am not sure I will.

the Viezu V Switch from what I see promises you an extra 50hp or there abouts a pulley and a tune on that car can certainly gain you more hp than that on a V8S. I will post my experience working with Viezu and how flexible they are with the tunes. The package includes two tunes, I see how hard that stipulation is.

I am local, on Eastern Shore before the Bay Bridge if you want to meet up and test V8S to V8S straight up. Unhinged may have another shop for you to get a tune done as he has done it in MD as well.


As for the other commentator ... wth???? What is the difference between a Carrera and a Carrera S? Or a turbo and turbo S? How is the Cayman not able to beat a 911 with the same hp? YES manufacturer have different tunes and other trickery to segment their market to offer a product for every niche. May it be because of local insurance or taxation rates based on HP, displacement or to protect their own products from their own competition ... or whatever.... What is the difference between the base V6 and the S ... really???? Jaguar had a long line of SC and R models, R and RS models same engine - different tune ... you have absolutely NO CLUE what you are talking about.

 

You're guessing. This is really not a good way to go about things. Knowing is much better.

If you want to buy a long engine, 5.0L supercharged AJ133S for a RWD V8 F-Type, there is only one part number, AJ813559, there is a different part number for the AWD version, because of the sump needing to accommodate the front axle.

That's a "stripped" engine from the sump to the valve covers, complete except for intake and exhaust manifolds, and it's the same engine that's used in the V8S, RWD R, and Project 7

This same part number is for the XF, and the XJ too, since they changed to the Bosch engine management.

Same engine used for;

475hp (XF and XJ)
495hp (V8S)
510hp (XF and XJ)
550hp (F-Type R, XFR-S, XJR)
575hp (Project 7)

The intake and supercharger on the 5.0L (since JLR changed to Bosch) is the same for all of those variations too. Injectors, same. Cams, same, valves, heads, exhaust manifolds, everything you've mentioned, all the same.

If you go further down the line, they also use the same torque converter, same ZF 8HP transmission, and so on.

It's all in the tune.

And these same engines have been modified with pulleys and an ECU-tune, some exhaust modifications, and are making upwards of 630hp. All on the same internals.

Cooling? No differences. In fact the intercooler heat exchanger and pump on the F-Type are the same units going back to 2003 from the old S-Type R and XJR.

This question has been asked many times, and I have poured through the parts catalogues trying to find the differences. And on some cars there are differences. For example the XKR and XKR-S, XFR and XFR-S, the exhaust is different.

But when it comes to an F-Type, there are no hardware differences at all between a V8S and a RWD F-Type R. There was a wiring change between 2014MY and 2015MY, but this is not anything like the changes you imagine.

JLR is not the only company that does this. Ford Australia has a supercharged 5.0L V8 based on the Coyote engine (the supercharged variant known as the Miami, no relation to the AJ133S btw) they do the exact same thing, different power outputs for marketing purposes, from the exact same hardware.

JLR does this with their diesels too.

The TD4 and SD4 2.0L engines, exact same hardware, two different power outputs, only difference is the tune.

The TDV6 and SDV6 in the Disco (LR4) and the Range Rover Sport, same again, two different tunes for two different outputs, and they charge a premium for the higher output, when it's just software.

These are the facts, no guesswork involved.

 

Very interesting, it appears that I was wrong. I am used to BMW's M and Mercedes AMG actually modifying power trains (and people frequently trying to claim M performance out of non-M car is personal peeve of mine). It appears it is different with Jaguar and R/SVR.

I will certainly ask parts department about this the next time I stop by, seeing is believing and I want to see for myself.

In that case re-flashing using dealer tools should be risk-free and probably most of it can be done with maps. It should be also possible to copy entire R firmware to V8S as it is very unlikely they encrypt or sign it, so you'd only need to get the car to accept the tool (that likely uses static authentication credentials that should be easy to reverse engineer out of dealer's tool or even car's firmware).