just so I understand better you:

1-have a 201? F type V8 R?
2-Installed a lithium ion battery
3-Pulled the BMS plug at the battery negative post
4-Got a charge system warning via all 3 lights
5-After that first startup none of the 3 lights related to battery charging came back on
6-The alternator continued to charge 13+ volts
7-You concluded the battery would soon not be able start the car under these conditions?
8-Have given up and gone back to original type battery and BMS reconnection?

Am I misunderstanding anything JAG code?

 

1-have a 201? F type V8 R? NO - 2019 base V6
2-Installed a lithium ion battery YES
3-Pulled the BMS plug at the battery negative post YES
4-Got a charge system warning via all 3 lights ONCE THEN NEVER AGAIN
5-After that first startup none of the 3 lights related to battery charging came back on CORRECT
6-The alternator continued to charge 13+ volts YES BUT ONLY BRIEFLY CHARGES ABOVE 14V DURING DECELERATION, BUT OPEN THE DRIVER SIDE DOOR AND ALTERNATOR WILL CHARGE CONSTANTLY AT 14V
7-You concluded the battery would soon not be able start the car under these conditions? YES - RESTING VOLTAGE DECREASED FROM 13.6V FULLY CHARGED FROM AN EXTERNAL CHARGER TO BELOW 13V AFTER A 2 HOUR DRIVE
8-Have given up and gone back to original type battery and BMS reconnection? YES

@chasers03 Would you be willing to invest in a

Ancel BM300 Pro

Ancel BM300 Pro

and measure the real-time current flow between your actual battery terminals (not Torque OBD2 which measures at the ECU and not a cigarette lighter plug-in)?

The only thing that matters is what your battery is seeing during the drive and when you turn off the engine and lock the car. When a lithium battery falls below 13V (40% SOC) you risk being stranded.

 

when my lithium battery falls below 13 in fact all the way down to 12.2 I am never left stranded. The engine will start. At 12.2 the antigravity BMS disconnects it from the car at which time I need to use a little remote to reconnect it but again the car will always start even at 12.2. I don’t see how I can add to our conversation by buying that device? My antigravity battery tracker as shown in these photos seems to do the same as what you need correct?
why your answers to some of these questions especially number six tells me that your car charging system/monitoring is considerably different than the 2016 RV8, which I have.

 

@chasers03 I didn't realize your battery has an app that graphs real-time voltage - that's perfect!

Can you run the app while you are driving around and take some screenshots? I am curious to see how the charging voltage changes while you are accelerating and decelerating. Also can you check with your driver's door open while parked and at idle?

Thanks in advance

 

As you requested, I find no change to the charging whether high RPM or low RPM and the door opening makes no difference.

 

Same here.

I monitor my charging voltage with Torque app and cigarette lighter plug volt meter. Engine rpm does not matter once it ramps up to 14.3 to 14.6 V after a few seconds after engine start and opening door makes no difference.

 

Thanks, good to know. This is different behavior than mine.

@chasers03 Can you test with the BMS plugged back in?

 

When I get back home next week, I will plug the BMS back in and observe behavior on my battery tracker, etc.

 

So, this thread died, but it's very interesting- the BMS can be turned off and treated as "not installed" in the CCF. with the GAP IID tool.

I haven't done so yet, but plan to do so and test the charging behavior after.

That SHOULD turn off the dash lights for the charge system, as well.

I turned off my seatbelt chime today.

 

@71camaro Yes just unplug the connector at the negative terminal and the BMS is officially disconnected.

I would monitor your charging and voltage with some sort of device to watch the behavior after disconnect. I use the Ancel BM300 Pro. You may get this warning but can ignore it as @chasers03 has done for his LiFePO4 battery:

 

I think you missed the point- through editing the CCF, this warning can be turned off.

 

My apologies, yes I missed that. Were you able to successfully turn it off?

 

Obviously, you won’t get low battery warnings.

In reading through the repair manual, it may be that with BMS not present, the QCCM may not shut down things to prevent the battery from discharging.

 

so that’s good news, but I don’t understand the acronyms you use ie. CCF AND WHAT IS THAT GAP TOOL.??

 

The CCF is the Car Configuration File that is the hex code that operates all the options on the car. With CCF modifications, I am running EU-market headlights and taillights, I have turned off the seatbelt chime, I have EU spoiler functionality, I have had Meridian Surround audio activated, I have retrofitted a heated windscreen and now have it working, and I am now trying to turn off the BMS voltage regulation.

FWIW, the car is a 2024. When I removed the wire from the BMS, I never got a warning on the dash, at all. No warning, no charging system fault light, nothing.

However, even with coding turning off the BMS, right now I am still only getting full charging voltage when the door is open like @JagCode3. The voltage does not drop below about 12.7v when driving, ever, but I am not getting that 13.5-14 I had hoped.

The regulator being used is still receiving a signal from somewhere.

The car will allow me to change in the coding the size, amp-hour rating, and the cold-cranking amp rating of the battery. I'm wondering if changes to that might modify the charging cycle the car performs, allowing a higher charging voltage to be maintained..

 

I'm still playing with this.

In the CCF, so far the best charging combination I've seen is unplugged sensor, then the CCF set for a 95AH/900CCA battery, and the BMS set to "Not Present," the Pss Control Function Mode to "Partial," and the BMS Battery Style to an HD battery with 95AH and 950CCA (largest available on the menu).

With this setup, the car when driving and at idle charges between 12.7 and 13.0 volts at all times, will jump up to 13.5 volts at somewhat regular intervals (20-30 minutes?), and will go all the way up to the 14.6 range when decelerating and door open.

As soon as the BMS wire is plugged back in or the CCF edited to bring it back into play, I'm seeing voltage drop down at times to 11.8-12.0 volts from the alternator.

Do we think the voltage I can get will be sufficient?

 

@71camaro This is good to know that even the final year models have the same charging issues at rest and during driving as the early models.

And, No - it won't be sufficient. You will need to have external charging when the car is parked for a few days.

You can try performing a new battery reset one more time with the BMS plugged and unplugged and see if that improves the charging ranges. This somehow worked for me, and now I am seeing 13-14V charging ranges during driving with limited deceleration spiking. I am not going to mess with it again as it is good now and could easily sustain a LiFePO4 lightweight battery, which needs to be charged in the 14V range during driving to be healthy.

These low charging ranges that you see during driving that spike only during deceleration are one of the reasons the F-Type needs additional charging when parked for more than a few days. If there was continual charging above 13V during driving without all the deceleration spikes the battery would be topped up each time.

This is why driving the car to charge the battery does not work - it will never charge to 100% SOC by driving. In fact, just unlocking the car or opening the door with the engine off will drop the SOC significantly.

What WILL charge the car quickly in a pinch is to turn the engine on and open the driver's door for a few minutes - only then do you get maximal charging from the alternator.

 

I was of the thought that a reset might be good- my car didn't get driven for nearly a year as I was performing work on it, and several times during that process it got to the point it would have the low battery warning on the dash, so the BMS at that time probably did think it was in need of a new battery. It's also gone to dead at least twice maybe three times while it was having the work performed, so, again, the BMS would be seeing a suboptimal battery.

 

Just performed the coding changes to turn the BMS back on, plugged it in, did the battery reset. Then turned it all off with the coding and unplugged.

I'm seeing steady idle charging of 13-13.2 volts. Have not driven yet since I'm doing this in between working, but will be curious to see how it behaves on road.

 

That's great - similar to my result. Hope it stays that way!