CPO Lemon?? Advice please
#41
03-20-2019, 04:09 PM
Thanks.
Yeah I can't help but to guffaw like a nutcase every time I get behind the wheel. I just hope to get this ordeal behind me asap so I can get back to that feeling.
JLR decision known as soon as I can catch the main tech in our current game of phone tag.
#43
03-21-2019, 05:33 AM
Luc, I did not have complete failure as posted in the video but did have bad slipping between 2nd and 3rd under agressive acceleration. I thought I noticed something in test drive but chalked it up to driver error, maybe my foot wasn’t fully released even though I thought/knew it was. It did not replicate but it was also an abbreviated drive as I already knew I wanted the car - I’d been stalking manuals online for awhile and had driven 3 hours to see this one. Looking back, the car could have started falling apart around me and I would have bought it - I might have had a bit of tunnel vision since what I’d been looking for was right in front of me.
Once I finally got her home, I again noted the slippage. I had previously reviewed the referenced clutch thread (thank you all) so I booked her in for a check at my local dealer. While my local dealer is fantastic, I was very careful to reference the safety issue while getting on the highway. I did not mention the thread but focused on my concern for safety. While not necessary, I was setting the foundation for escalation. As a CPO vehicle, components aren’t expected to be new, but the vehicle should be safe to drive (wearable or not - I don’t expect brand new tires but they shouldn’t be bald if it’s CPO). I had a list of issues for my dealer to evaluate when I dropped it on Friday and was advised it would most likely be Wednesday before it was ready, assuming they didn’t need parts. He called me yesterday and informed me that they were replacing the entire clutch assembly under warranty. That was it. Simple. Easy. No argument. I believe my local has a bit more experience with the manual trans as I saw two listed in their site just in the few months I was looking. Or, they’re just not douchebags like my selling dealer. I expect you to have more leverage with yours since it was the selling dealer and they don’t want to be called out by Jag (at least in my area where there are also 3 dealers in spitting distance).
I suspect the the first time, they looked for something simple and didn’t do a full diagnostic (esp if not a lot of manuals serviced). The second time (now), it sounds like they realized they needed to look a little further. I would ask about transmission and if they’ve checked it as suggested above. I’m hopeful that you will get satisfactory resolution without having to escalate. The good news is you bought a car you love. It happens to have a known issue. The known issue is repairable, just need to give the dealer a bit of time to get there.
And, I hope you get back in your car soon. I’m not at all liking the F Pace S I’ve been in all week. I’d rather use their miles and gas but I took my XF one day just to put the smile back. Not that the f pace is bad but, no wonder people don’t care about cars anymore if that’s what all they know. Ugh!
Once I finally got her home, I again noted the slippage. I had previously reviewed the referenced clutch thread (thank you all) so I booked her in for a check at my local dealer. While my local dealer is fantastic, I was very careful to reference the safety issue while getting on the highway. I did not mention the thread but focused on my concern for safety. While not necessary, I was setting the foundation for escalation. As a CPO vehicle, components aren’t expected to be new, but the vehicle should be safe to drive (wearable or not - I don’t expect brand new tires but they shouldn’t be bald if it’s CPO). I had a list of issues for my dealer to evaluate when I dropped it on Friday and was advised it would most likely be Wednesday before it was ready, assuming they didn’t need parts. He called me yesterday and informed me that they were replacing the entire clutch assembly under warranty. That was it. Simple. Easy. No argument. I believe my local has a bit more experience with the manual trans as I saw two listed in their site just in the few months I was looking. Or, they’re just not douchebags like my selling dealer. I expect you to have more leverage with yours since it was the selling dealer and they don’t want to be called out by Jag (at least in my area where there are also 3 dealers in spitting distance).
I suspect the the first time, they looked for something simple and didn’t do a full diagnostic (esp if not a lot of manuals serviced). The second time (now), it sounds like they realized they needed to look a little further. I would ask about transmission and if they’ve checked it as suggested above. I’m hopeful that you will get satisfactory resolution without having to escalate. The good news is you bought a car you love. It happens to have a known issue. The known issue is repairable, just need to give the dealer a bit of time to get there.
And, I hope you get back in your car soon. I’m not at all liking the F Pace S I’ve been in all week. I’d rather use their miles and gas but I took my XF one day just to put the smile back. Not that the f pace is bad but, no wonder people don’t care about cars anymore if that’s what all they know. Ugh!
The following users liked this post:
Luc Lapierre (03-21-2019)
#44
03-21-2019, 06:09 PM
The following users liked this post:
SinF (03-22-2019)
#45
03-21-2019, 07:49 PM
Awesome!
Here's info on my clutch failure.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...o-gear-189529/
Perhaps this is just a case of ZF wanting to ensure quality control by only rebuilding the transmissions themselves? If you want a new one, you have to do a swap. There are plenty of poor quality transmission rebuilds out there. This is why most only offer a 1 year 12k mile warranty on their repairs. If they were confident in their abilities, they'd offer 3 year 36k mile warranties or more. BTW, this is the same transmission that was in my BMW, so I'm confident they'll be around for a long time.
Here's info on my clutch failure.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...o-gear-189529/
#46
03-21-2019, 10:13 PM
Veteran Member
Awesome!
Here's info on my clutch failure.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...o-gear-189529/
Perhaps this is just a case of ZF wanting to ensure quality control by only rebuilding the transmissions themselves? If you want a new one, you have to do a swap. There are plenty of poor quality transmission rebuilds out there. This is why most only offer a 1 year 12k mile warranty on their repairs. If they were confident in their abilities, they'd offer 3 year 36k mile warranties or more. BTW, this is the same transmission that was in my BMW, so I'm confident they'll be around for a long time.
Here's info on my clutch failure.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...o-gear-189529/
Perhaps this is just a case of ZF wanting to ensure quality control by only rebuilding the transmissions themselves? If you want a new one, you have to do a swap. There are plenty of poor quality transmission rebuilds out there. This is why most only offer a 1 year 12k mile warranty on their repairs. If they were confident in their abilities, they'd offer 3 year 36k mile warranties or more. BTW, this is the same transmission that was in my BMW, so I'm confident they'll be around for a long time.
#47
03-29-2019, 07:02 PM
Transmission is back in the car, but JLR neglected to send drive shaft bolts (I seem to recall a similar story in one of the handful of these clutch threads).
ETA next Tuesday.
Car has now been in the shop for 24 of the 34 days since purchase, and counting.
The weather is beautiful, and I'm currently feeling rather murderous.
ETA next Tuesday.
Car has now been in the shop for 24 of the 34 days since purchase, and counting.
The weather is beautiful, and I'm currently feeling rather murderous.
#48
04-04-2019, 08:20 AM
So Luc, how did this ever turn out? You have the car back and been driving it? I would be very interested in learning how the new clutch assembly feels.
Transmission is back in the car, but JLR neglected to send drive shaft bolts (I seem to recall a similar story in one of the handful of these clutch threads).
ETA next Tuesday.
Car has now been in the shop for 24 of the 34 days since purchase, and counting.
The weather is beautiful, and I'm currently feeling rather murderous.
ETA next Tuesday.
Car has now been in the shop for 24 of the 34 days since purchase, and counting.
The weather is beautiful, and I'm currently feeling rather murderous.
#49
04-04-2019, 05:41 PM
"... We have been communicating with the engineers on your vehicle while waiting for the bolt, we noticed that there was existing damage to the driveshaft during the reinstallation and wanted confirmation if it should be replaced at the same time. We got a response back and the driveshaft IS recommended to be replaced to ensure repair is back to factory specification before we return car back to you. This is of course no charge to you. My parts manager is looking to expedite the part from head office, we're pending their response as it shows no stock at this moment. I apologize for the delay on getting your vehicle back to you but we want to make sure the car is completely road safe before you get it back. ..."
Wonder how that could've happened?
Would've been previous use since I've barely gotten a chance to drive it 😭
#50
04-04-2019, 06:14 PM
Veteran Member
#51
04-04-2019, 08:26 PM
You've been through a long journey, but just remember, you have the entire summer ahead of you and you will love the car. As soon as you get it going you're going to be delighted and the first thing you should do is get the short shifter. It makes the car seem so much tighter. IMO, its absolutely the simplest, cheapest upgrade to the car.
The saga continues:
"... We have been communicating with the engineers on your vehicle while waiting for the bolt, we noticed that there was existing damage to the driveshaft during the reinstallation and wanted confirmation if it should be replaced at the same time. We got a response back and the driveshaft IS recommended to be replaced to ensure repair is back to factory specification before we return car back to you. This is of course no charge to you. My parts manager is looking to expedite the part from head office, we're pending their response as it shows no stock at this moment. I apologize for the delay on getting your vehicle back to you but we want to make sure the car is completely road safe before you get it back. ..."
Wonder how that could've happened?
Would've been previous use since I've barely gotten a chance to drive it 😭
"... We have been communicating with the engineers on your vehicle while waiting for the bolt, we noticed that there was existing damage to the driveshaft during the reinstallation and wanted confirmation if it should be replaced at the same time. We got a response back and the driveshaft IS recommended to be replaced to ensure repair is back to factory specification before we return car back to you. This is of course no charge to you. My parts manager is looking to expedite the part from head office, we're pending their response as it shows no stock at this moment. I apologize for the delay on getting your vehicle back to you but we want to make sure the car is completely road safe before you get it back. ..."
Wonder how that could've happened?
Would've been previous use since I've barely gotten a chance to drive it 😭
#52
04-05-2019, 01:03 AM
I'm still trying to get them to offer me some sort of goodwill remediation. I don't really have any leverage other than to put them on blast for selling me a car with these pre existing issues.
As soon as you get it going you're going to be delighted and the first thing you should do is get the short shifter. It makes the car seem so much tighter. IMO, its absolutely the simplest, cheapest upgrade to the car.
#54
04-05-2019, 07:31 AM
Veteran Member
#55
04-05-2019, 07:34 AM
Veteran Member
So if I were to install one when it was first made available, I'd be out of approximately $30K by now.
#56
04-05-2019, 08:36 AM
Yeah, I considered exactly what SinF is saying prior to installing the short shifter and given all the problems with the clutch assembly and it was a difficult decision. Additionally, in my case, JLR has extended the warranty on the car for an extra year because it originally got returned under the lemon law in California. However, IMO the original shifter in the car is a POS and is also a liability. That coupled with the fact that the short shifter looks exactly the same as the original (same height, it just changes the fulcrum position) and that these JLR dealers obviously just don't see any of these MT's (seems like every one of the stories is the same, that is, the mechanics at the dealership look at these MTs and say "what am I supposed to do with this?" and how many times have we heard that they forgot to order the three new bolts?) and they wouldn't know the short shifter from the original.
Besides, just because you may have the skills of Jackie Stewart and something approaching the vehicular technology of Jackie Stewart doesn't mean you need or should try to drive like Jackie Stewart.
Besides, just because you may have the skills of Jackie Stewart and something approaching the vehicular technology of Jackie Stewart doesn't mean you need or should try to drive like Jackie Stewart.
While short sifter undeniably improves shifting, it is rather expensive part as it voids warranty on drive train. I recommend waiting until the end of warranty to install it. My warranty paid for a new transmission, multiple clutches, differential.
So if I were to install one when it was first made available, I'd be out of approximately $30K by now.
So if I were to install one when it was first made available, I'd be out of approximately $30K by now.
#57
04-05-2019, 11:02 AM
I'm heading out of country for a few weeks April 18, would be nice to get a chance to drive it before then... but at this rate I'm not going to hold my breath! I'm a little concerned that the service manager said there were no parts in stock. It's unclear what kind of extra delay this will cause.
Good thinking 🤔
Just a thought that you may want to hold off on any modifications when you get your car back until you know that you car has been totally and successfully repaired. I would expect several months and minimally 500-1000 miles driven?
#58
04-05-2019, 11:51 AM
Veteran Member
#59
04-12-2019, 07:41 PM
This may amuse:
10:33am
"Hi Luc, Great news the parts have arrived, we will try to have the vehicle done today for you. we will keep you posted"
3:46pm
"Hi Luc, update for you, Jaguar wants us to remove the fly wheel and slave for inspection. we are going to need to hold the vehicle till next week again. i do apologize for the delay"
Not sure why they're removing the flywheel since it was supposedly replaced just recently.
10:33am
"Hi Luc, Great news the parts have arrived, we will try to have the vehicle done today for you. we will keep you posted"
3:46pm
"Hi Luc, update for you, Jaguar wants us to remove the fly wheel and slave for inspection. we are going to need to hold the vehicle till next week again. i do apologize for the delay"
Not sure why they're removing the flywheel since it was supposedly replaced just recently.
Last edited by Luc Lapierre; 04-12-2019 at 07:44 PM.
#60
04-13-2019, 08:23 AM
This may amuse:
10:33am
"Hi Luc, Great news the parts have arrived, we will try to have the vehicle done today for you. we will keep you posted"
3:46pm
"Hi Luc, update for you, Jaguar wants us to remove the fly wheel and slave for inspection. we are going to need to hold the vehicle till next week again. i do apologize for the delay"
Not sure why they're removing the flywheel since it was supposedly replaced just recently.
10:33am
"Hi Luc, Great news the parts have arrived, we will try to have the vehicle done today for you. we will keep you posted"
3:46pm
"Hi Luc, update for you, Jaguar wants us to remove the fly wheel and slave for inspection. we are going to need to hold the vehicle till next week again. i do apologize for the delay"
Not sure why they're removing the flywheel since it was supposedly replaced just recently.
Not sure what you mean, they've only had a month to figure this out?
and
Good question about the fly wheel if you've kept up with Bellanca's recent posts on his clutch assembly situation. The difference is JLR is paying for yours and Bellanca was paying for the $1,200 to replace his flywheel. From others weighing in on that situation, the flywheel gets cooked in nearly every one of these clutch failures.