Q) So the first thing we need to determine is do you have SDD and a VCI.
A) No, I do not. Any recommendations on acquiring them?

“The power to the dash then off is sometimes caused by the PCM relay. But the first and most important is seeing which modules the SDD sees.”

A) Can the PCM relay be tested?

“Also so you are aware the harness needs to be plugged into the seat for the BCM to work. The wiring runs through the seat connectors. remove the seats and you will have no power.”
A) Thanks, this helps out

Q) How much water damage did you have.
A) The water on the interior went about 4 inches below the armrest. In the trunk it went about midway on the QCCM fuse box.

Q) Is it salt water or regular.
A) Salt water.

Q) Has this car running then the water damage and now you are trying to get it back running, or did
you buy it not running.
A) I bought it not running but I did not see any water in the engine oil, tranny or differential. I also removed the spark plugs and scoped the engine just in case and no water.

Thank you for helping me out and for the quick response, I really appreciate it. I'm sure I will be having quite a few questions as this progresses. From reading your other posts, You’re the Man on this type of damage!

 

Are any of the modules or fuse box plug n play?

 

Q) So the first thing we need to determine is do you have SDD and a VCI.
A) No, I do not. Any recommendations on acquiring them?



A) SDD is easy to come by, the VCI programmer is what you will need to find. The cost for these are a couple hundred dollars. I have the jaguar original, you can search all over, and I have the second generation for the 2018 and newer since I have a 2017 f type and a 2020 f type. Keywords would be JLR VCI SDD.

“The power to the dash then off is sometimes caused by the PCM relay. But the first and most important is seeing which modules the SDD sees.”

A) Can the PCM relay be tested?

A) No this is inside the PCM, the one I am referencing, do you have the schematics. If not let me know we can figure something out as to getting you what you need, not familar enough with the rules on this forum to know what I can offer or cant offer.

“Also so you are aware the harness needs to be plugged into the seat for the BCM to work. The wiring runs through the seat connectors. remove the seats and you will have no power.”
A) Thanks, this helps out

Q) How much water damage did you have.
A) The water on the interior went about 4 inches below the armrest. In the trunk it went about midway on the QCCM fuse box.



A) This is actually good, how long did it sit in the water. The depth of this water means that you didn’t hit a majority of the electronics. Mine was to middle of windows so I had to replace tons of modules, wasn’t salt water though. Did it hit the drive side firewall fuse box, if so just remove it and clean it real well. It will be right about the height you are talking about. Also right behind it is the park assist module. On the passenger side you will have the bcm the gwm and the RFA/KVM, and Headlight module at that height. KVM sits a little higher so hopefully that is good because it controls your keys. In the trunk you going to have the quintecence and the Power distribution module. And of course the seat modules. Now the seat modules are tied to the VIN but they will still work even if you have incorrect one, and like I said before they have a coating on them to prevent water to a point.

I had similar symptoms as you when I played musical chairs between swapping BCM modules, only light would work and glove box. But after persistence I got everything working. You are going to need a voltmeter also and schematics to see where to test for voltage on wires. You are also going to probably need some seat motors or possible even lower half of the seats, if they aren’t currently moving back and forth then you will have a hard time getting the bolts out to remove them.

Q) Is it salt water or regular.
A) Salt water.

Q) Has this car running then the water damage and now you are trying to get it back running, or did
you buy it not running.
A) I bought it not running but I did not see any water in the engine oil, tranny or differential. I also removed the spark plugs and scoped the engine just in case and no water.

1. make sure you drain the fuel. If water got in the fuel and you try to start it, not only will it not run but it will flood the water that doesn’t ignite into the oil then you will have soupy oil. Make sure you change the oil also. The differential is easy to change but make sure you know what diff you have there are 3 different types. Standard which just takes gear oil and then LSD which takes gear oil with LSD. The third I cant remember off the top of my head but it takes BOT720 it is the best of the three, just make sure you know what diff you have. As for transmission fluild you can use any kind you prefer for the brand but remember to flush it out. I flushed mine about 10 times and it gets expensive. If you doing a complete transmission flush you have to buy a bottom cover, as the filter is built in. Back to draining the fuel, this is not super easy as it is blocked from syphoning and the fuel tank is behind the seats, the way I did it and only had ¼ tank in was to unscrew the ling on the passenger side of the front of the engine, I ran it into a tube and kept turning the car over for about 30 seconds at a time 3 times then let sit for 10 minutes, the fuel pump only would run when the car is running or attempting to start, and I limited my time to avoid overheating the starter. I know we aren’t there yet but just giving a heads up on the road ahead. Also you might be looking at replacing the starter since it sits pretty low and does it damaged if in flood. No worries here because you can buy a startedr used and it is cross compatible with all jaguar models so they are around 40 to 70 dollars all over ebay.

Lets figure a way for me to get you the docs you need, I will try to send you a PM.

 

I am impressed and contemplating doing the same with a flood f type. Do you have a list of all the modules you replaced? Which ones you had to buy new?

 

You dont have to buy any new. You just need to make sure that certain ones match. you need the dash, the kvm, the immobilizer and the ECU to match.
The best thing you can look for is someone parting out a car and buy them all in bulk, probably around 2k.
First thing you need to know is which ones you have that are bad. Depedning on the damage you might need seat motors also. You might need lumbar pumps also, and transmission servos.

 

Hello citadeltcs I made an account to see if you would be able to help. Basically, the situation is that I have a Jaguar xe 2017 the telecommunication module went bad part number t2h18589, the part is out of stock and no one knows when the part will be back in stock. My dealership tried to find the part, I contacted roughly 15 - 20 best dealerships in the USA to see if they had it, I also contacted dealerships in the UK and tried anything to find a new oem part. I could not but the dealership said we could try a used part but it might not work due to vin etching, tried the used part but the vin made it so the part would not work. I was wondering if I can pay you to rewrite the vin on the used module that I bought, or if you know anyone that provides that service, I emailed roughly 6 places so far but no one has gotten back to me I plan on calling when shops open Monday.

 

Looking For some help to a 2014 F type Convertible. Have tried a used convertible module with no luck. Sounds like the OP have the experience to help out.

 

Used modules with foreign VINs work fine. Your issue is a lack of professionals in The States who understand Jaguar Land Rover vehicles well enough.

 

Citadeltcs and Bill 400 I applaud you along with others. I just read this entire thread and was simply in awe of the way you have figured these electronic programs out. I'm an old guy who grew up with Muscle cars and figured things out mechanically and reading old schematics. I understand a little of what is going on as I have worked on computers and when I was out of school also repaired televisons. But this is a whole new level of what you're doing.( As long as you're keeping everything on the " Legal" end) Good luck and hang in there!!

 

Hello Bill i have a 2011 Jaguar XF 5.0 and im in trouble my battery died and for 2 months i had to save up to buy a new one.. now the car is a brick it will crank but not start and the immobilizer is active. May people have looked at it but nobody can help me ive bought a used BCM but i need to program the VIN everyone is telling me that the software is corrupt because i cant even reprogram the key please help

 

I have 3 Jaguars and SDD works on only 2 of them. There is no option to reprogram vin with SDD that I have ever seen. Thier is a spot to change configuration. ANd you can program most odules without problem but changing the vin in the modules or ECM is the question.

 

Hello fellow classic Jaguar enthusiasts,
First of all, this post should be under General Tech help.
Programming and reprogramming modules is of general interest.
@GGG is possible to split this thread? Possible to repost from here under General Tech Help?

Next, nearly all posts discussing the use of IDS/SDD simply use the term SDD.
That is kinda like saying the I'm working on a Jaguar without giving the model.
Yes, the pre-V150 versions were updated to add new vehicles to the VDF (Vehicle Data File) library, but there were also improvements to the UI (User Interface).
By V150, the UI was improved light years beyond V125 (the nominal starting point for many MongoosePro fans).

So, why not just skip to the head of the line and use the best UI? Because, as Citadeltics notes, "I have three Jaguars and SDD only works on two of them".

Let me explain: IDS/SDD was designed by geniuses to be carried out by idiots (appropriated from the military). I have the highest respect (awe really) for the folks behind IDS/SDD. There really was genius and really smart folks who stood on the shoulders of giants. The technicians to be using IDS/SDD range from equally genius (natural and learned talents) to parts changers. So, the designers of IDS/SDD had to target the lowest common denominator, the newbie parts changer.

That is why IDS/SDD is what it is. Hidden features are revealed on an "as-needed" basis. (Go around your elbow to get to your thumb.)
Control modules are designed to "shuffle" software until re-programming is complete. The last thing that happens is that the original software is deleted.
However, as noted by a respected forum member: "Nothing is fool-proof for a sufficiently talented fool."
Also, system software resides in three places: Rear Smart Junction Box (master), Front Smart Junction Box and Instrument Cluster or Engine Control, depending on model. We have the Department of Redundancy Department at our service.

OK (please pardon the bloviating), why not just use V150 or newer? Because newer versions became better at recognizing system faults and preventing reprogramming modules until the "problem" was fixed.
Example: A certain Volvo Bluetooth module functions well in an XF or XK but is not recognized by IDS/SDD. SDD V138 will not be bothered and will allow a key-fob programming function. SDD Versions in the low V140's and beyond will balk and not allow programming to proceed.

So, details are important! Please put your vehicle details in your signature for easy reference. Always mention the version of SDD when you are discussing SDD.
For XK and XF (X250) folks, try using SDD V138 or earlier. You only need the version of SDD that was released at your vehicle production date, except in rare instances.


@Spontman07 Short of a nuclear blast causing an electromagnetic pulse, a dead battery should not corrupt the BCM. Subsequent failed attempts to reprogram might. (See sufficiently talented fool, above.) Why do you suspect the BCM? How many Key-fobs do you have? If one fob and immobilized active, start at the key-fob. Did you put the key-fob in the slot provided for that purpose? Read the owner manual for failure to start?


@citadeltcs What version of SDD are you using?

There are ways to change VIN using SDD but I'm not sure that we need to go into that for the problem addressed here.

 

Hello,
This thread seems to be what I've been dealing with for years on our customers cars in our dealership. Either the module is back ordered or is obsolete, can't get one anywhere except used, and if we buy a used one from Ebay or LKQ etc, it won't program because it has a VIN already burned into it from it's previous vehicle and will not program to another vehicle. So, what I've been trying to figure out, what does a customer do, or us as a dealership do, when a module is obsolete and/or no one repairs them or even has the ability to strip the VIN number from the a good used module so we can put it in our vehicle that is basically a brick and won't run without this module? Just recently we had a 2007 XK in the shop, nice car low miles, but the front junction box was bad and the used one would not program to his car. I could not find anyone that even worked on that type of Jaguar module. So now the car is junk? I don't understand why there is no one that can do something about this problem. Somewhere there must be a module repair shop, or a circuit board technician etc.
Does anyone know of a shop anywhere? that does these types of repairs or VIN removers so they can be programmed to another car? I really hate the whole VIN burning idea on these modules to begin with. It should be outlawed. That way, 10 or 20 years from now, a customer can go get a used junkyard module to try to fix his car. We have a 2025 Range Rover in the shop, brand new sold car, but the Amp is bad, there are no sound effects at all for turn signals, warnings etc. and no audio from the radio either, and yes, it has the VIN burned in, so we can't take one from another car on our lot. It's so stupid. If it were not for the VIN burned into the Amp, we could take one from another car and get this customer back on the road today. Why burn a VIN anyway? It is so frustrating.
Thanks, Jim

 

IF YOU HAVE SDD or Pathfinder Topix ,put your battery maintainer on make sure it shows green in the top right hand corner then go to pre delivery inspection (PDI) AND FOLLOW PROMPTS then tell me what you get ,make sure you have both keys

 

Is this for the 07 XK ? That car is gone and probably won't be back. Would this be with the original junction box installed or the used one? We do have a few land rovers and possibly one Jag waiting on back ordered telematics modules. No ETA either. I bought a used one on eBay but they decided not to try it because of the Vin burned in. They didn't want to take a chance on messing up any other modules. Our techs are pretty good. A few of them have over 30 years Jag and Rover experience. Got ideas I can pass on to them when they get the car back in the shop?

 

Jim,
Vehicle theft is the primary reason for VINs in modules and other places.
Using SDD 138 and/or SDD 143 (off-line) I have twice programmed used front smart junction boxes in a 2010 XK without issue.
I say twice because the 2010-11 and 2012-15 FSJBs are different. The newer module drives the headlights lights differently.
SDD offers options to replace or reprogram control modules. Since the JLR procedure says start with the defective module in place, the "Replace" option was likely what I used.
My SDDs includes VDF Vehicle Data Files which are required for reprogramming.

I have not tried programming/VIN change for a used XK Engine Control Module. I did try it on 2004 X-Type and could not do it at the time.
However, there are a few techniques that will/should work.
1. A method of start/switch/continue is the subject of FORD ECM reprogram U-Tube.
2. There is a "Golden Key" option for VIN change. The key is freely available. I haven't had the need to use it.
3. There is software on GitHub to edit VDF. The primary use is to edit VINs. It is understood to also edit the CRC. Again, I haven't needed to use it.

My understanding is that JLR would not authorize the "Golden Key" except under extreme circumstances. Changing the VIN on a used control module was not likely one of them.

Good luck.
Keep us posted on your success.

Bill

 

Thanks for the info. I'll pass it on to the service mgr and tech that worked on the car and see if they would like to bring the car back in. Sometimes the aftermarket wing has better solutions than the factory. Especially when the factory is stubborn on certain issues.

 

Here is some info on editing the CCF. This is very deep into the car so proceed at your own risk. I have and use SDD but have not gone to this level yet.

I have posted this before and it's not talked about much? Attached is a "Best Practices" document from Jaguar on using SDD. There is a VERY interesting suggestion about scanning the car with the bad module not connected and then JUST before you click the green check mark to program you re-attach the used module.




Do you have the CCF Tools 4.6? That is another thing you should have in your software tool box.
This thread might help or might confuse the issue.
CCF Editing and Engineering Mode

Post back if you have any luck with this.
.
.
.

 

@clubairth1, with respect, the attachments are great information but the "CCF Editing and Engineering Mode" thread has become very confusing.
Rhys Morgan was sharing his excellent version of the "Golden Key" access tool. It works great. It is for use on 64-bit machines. If you run SDD on a 32-bit machine, use your "good laptop" to run Rhy's app.
The app, given the VIN and seed code, simply generates a password. No need to have it on the same machine as your SDD.

Awhile back, when adding OEM-like reverse/back-up cameras to pre-2012 XKs was the rage (thanks Cambo), access to CCF editing was a closely guarded secret. Then a YouTube video on how to access SDD Engineering Mode spilled the beans. That "engineering mode" allows dealer level access to edit CCF. It will enable back-up camera, different versions of daytime running lights, etc.
However, the dealer level "engineering mode" does not allow VIN change, etc. That is the "Golden Key" engineering mode that dealers are allowed on a single session, case-by-case basis when consulting with the JLR Engineering support in Mahwah, NJ.

I was priveleged to witness (on-line conversations) the development of the tool. Thank you, Rhys and Jules. Computer geniuses.
Both had the patience to explain a lot about how CCF actually functions, is broadcast under multiple IDs and on both CAN busses.

PS: if anyone has or is interested in developing XK/XF DBC files, feel free to PM.

Bill

 

Bumping this thread as I'm trying to figure out how to replace the VIN on a replacement IMC I fitted to my 2018 F-Type. I have Pathfinder working, however the car does not fully read the IMC module. Sometimes it does let me go into it, sometimes it just says its not installed. Should I also be pulling the fuse for it while Pathfinder is connecting, then insert the fuse before I try to connect to the module in Pathfinder? If it does connect, what next? Do I go to Replace ECU? I know there is a function under Special Functions that refers to sharing Vehicle handshake or something along those lines. I was thinking that may copy the VIN over, however I haven't been able to get to that point.