is it normal for the dealership to charge $350 for an oil change? the local guys are $180 but not sure they have the right oil spec.

 

Yip as they have high costs to pay wages for premises and profits it's a business after all , some times they do offer deals . But if you trust a local Indy get them or do a DIY very simple to do would cost you $100 plus you have the satisfaction of knowing the right oil was put in

 

Hey, even the dealers have been reported to use bulk oil here (not Jaguar spec) occasionally.

ANOTHER reason I replace oil myself (and other routine services like trans and diff fluids, and brakes).

My practice of soaking all rubber bushings while I wait for oil to drain is verified to extend their life.
I have 30 year old cars with original suspension components.



Yes, I prefer to drain oil the traditional way...I have a lift in my garage...

 

My 2021 F Type R gets free oil changes for the first 5 years/50,000 miles as part of the warranty. However I wanted to drain the factory fill oil early so I bought a Mityvac, 7 quarts of the correct Castrol Edge Professional EC5 0W-20 oil and a Jaguar filter and did it myself at around 1250 miles. At that time the oil & filter cost around $130, I'll assume the oil price has gone up since then. The Mityvac was around $100.

The dealers use a powered oil extractor to suck the old oil out through the top and use bulk oil. Figure they are going to charge an hour minimum for labor. $350 for an oil change is outrageous. $250 I could understand if you don't want to DIY. If your local shop uses the correct oil $180 isn't bad at all, if they are filling your Jag with some synthetic oil from Walmart that cost $35 for a 5 quart jug not so much.

Last time the dealer did the change for me they overfilled the oil. Next time I will have the Service Writer go out and personally talk to the technician and tell him to pay attention to what he is doing. Once the warranty expires I will do my own maintenance not just for the cost savings but for the peace of mind.

The cost of a Mityvac was not inconsequential, but I can tell you that after about 50 years of crawling underneath my vehicles to do an oil change, skinning my knuckles, burning myself, spilling oil and other fun results of a DIY oil change that the cost of the Mityvac was well worth it. You can blow $100 on a few fast food lunches these days and have nothing to show for it and I'll have a new and useful tool for years now. It was actually a pleasure to be able to use an oil extractor and change out a top mounted filter, it was almost like a surgical procedure. If you have any mechanical skills at all it is a breeze to do it.

 

I agree. Wasn't aware that there is a trend to reduce antiwear additives such as ZDDP, which was certainly an important additive when I was involved with reformulating and engine testing, qualification of crankcase lubes from solvent refined base stocks to hydrocracked base stocks. I too often consider moving up in viscosity range from 0W20, living in Florida. More VI improver, but I somehow feel more confident with a higher visc oil with these high ambients. I did recently send an oil sample to Blackstone labs after about 2,000 miles. Was a bit suprised to see that the TBN was at about 50%.

 

There was a recent YouTube teardown of an AJ Jaguar V6, which had about 62,000 miles. The engine failed due to the plastic parts leaking coolant, and being operated like that. It is good to note that the rod bearings were quite worn, although still usable, they didn't fail, they were simply used up. This is generally unrelated to an overheating event, and is much more likely to be due to extended oil change intervals and insufficient viscosity.

These engines make a lot of power per cylinder (that's the metric that matters for rod bearing loads) and 0W-20 oil with 18,000 mile oil change intervals makes no sense from a bearing load and engine wear point of view.

 

I tend to agree, 18,000 mile oil change! When I was involved with developing and testing motor oils the big thing was 15,000 mile oil change oils. Sure it's doable but I would never want to try that on a highly strung engine like the Jag. No point imo, I'm comfortable with 4,000 mile oil changes. Now, maybe that long oil change frequency is a marketing point in the UK where they charge ludicrous ! amounts for even a quart of motor oil.

 

I do frequent changes and the best 0w-20 oil with ILGF6a (chain preservation).

On temps...people, the engine temp is always HOTTER than ambient....do you really think 210 in the engine in NYC is going to cause different wear from 210 in the engine in Florida?

Anyway, this will always repeat.....note there are valve clearance issues and if you put 5-40w in your car it will likely be not such great thing.....the engineers chose 0w-20 for a reason...the oil pumps faster from a cold start and the tolerances are tight.

My guess is that any decent il gl6a oil at 3k intervals will be fine....but go one further and since these are di engines, go with low noack. No one every mentions that ......gunk prevention...

 

Jcb-memphis, I find it interesting how long my F Type R stays at high idle from a cold start compared to other cars I own or have owned. Perhaps that is the engine computer making sure that cold oil is under good pressure around the valve train until it warms up sufficiently ?

I watched an interesting video on YouTube yesterday from Tyrell's Classic Workshop on a Ferrari Dino 246GT that is being restored and refurbished at his shop. He mentioned that a lot of those exotic V6 engines suffer from worn valves due to the owners not having warmed them up long enough before driving off. He said the idle speed should be quite high at start up which ensures enough oil pressure around the valve stems. Of course those engines were built way before they had computerized fuel injection and electronic ignition and owners may have turned down the idle speed screw on the 3 carburetors to have the car idle at ~ 800 RPM or so. I like that channel, Iain Tyrell always has a good selection of exotic cars in his shop.

 

WTF, there should be ZERO oil around the valve, the valve guide is there to keep oil away from the valve, do not listen to that guy. Valves let in air and fuel to the heads, the last thing you want is oil to foul the spark. He was probably talking about warn valve guides, old trick on earlier engines was to raise the oil weight to reduce oil consumption, you can not do that on modern engines, the clearances are to tight. Just like you cannot put pure oil in a modern engine, you have to use synthetic oil as their molecules are much smaller and can get in tight spaces.

 

I watch Iain Tyrell's YouTube channel all the time, never miss an episode. He may be old school but he is one of the most knowledgeable car guys out there including on older classic engines. In this case he is talking about a 60 year old Ferrari engine on which the valve guide seals are notorious for going hard and letting engine oil through. I would listen to what he says over 100,000 forum commentators any day but as you say he is not talking about a modern engine such as the JLR AJ126 V6.

 

By coincidence, I watched that one a couple of days ago and I'm sure he was actually talking about the high pressure oil feed to the crankshaft, hence the need to tickover at 1500-2000 rpm, not 500 while the careless owner closes his garage doors.

 

Sorry I misquoted Tyrell. The point was those engines needed a high idle speed when cold to ensure enough oil pressure for the cold oil to get to all the places it needed to be, and as scm mentioned above a lot of drivers back when those cars were new(er) drove off without sufficiently warming up the engines.

So does the relatively long time that our F Types stay at high idle from a cold start have something to do with making sure critical engine components are under good oil pressure at the time when engine wear is the highest ? I would have been interesting if Jaguar had provided old school "full instrumentation" to our dashboards to include oil pressure, oil temperature and amps.

By the way, just through habit I always have driven my cars like a grandma for the first few miles thinking that not only does the engine need to come up to operating temperature but so does the transmission and differential. The only cars I have ever owned (that I purchased new) that consumed oil were those that consumed some when being broken in, and gradually stopped consuming oil as the miles added up. I had an Infiniti G35 Coupe and that darn VQ engine used oil until it got past 20,000 miles and then only used about 1/4 quart every 5000 miles for the rest of the time I owned it.

 

So then the question becomes, on a cold start should you wait until the idle drops on its own before moving the car (approx 30-40 sec, depending on ambient temp)? I have always done this when possible (and usually it is) since if you immediately put it into gear, the RPMs drop and if you are backing out of a driveway or starting out of a parking lot, etc., you're running at virtually idle speed. I just don't know if it's necessary.

 

Other than time and fuel use assuming no emergency is underway, I don't see a downside to waiting 30-45s before taking off. And then driving gently. Until the engine is warmed up. That is what I do. Car burns zero oil and runs perfectly at 61k miles. BG44k every say 2-3 months, usually right before an oil change I do myself.

Mechanical empathy is a good thing in my book. That does not mean don't drive the car...just let it warm up and stretch first...

 

The engine is managed that way to heat up the Catalytic Converters quickly. It has nothing to do with treating the engine well, and is in fact somewhat detrimental if the oil pressure does not come up fast, which can happen after, for example, an oil and filter change.

 

Thanks cujet, that is good information. I'm never in a hurry when taking my Jag out for a spin so I sit in the garage until the idle speed drops and still take it easy for the first few miles to let all the other components warm up.

The instructions for doing an oil change specifically mention pouring a few ounces of fresh oil down into the filter housing before replacing the filter, I assume that is to help get some oil to parts of the engine that need it upon start up while the fresh oil down in the sump is getting pressurized and circulating.

 

Correct it's all about getting the converters up to temperature just as quickly as possible.
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Yup high idle is purely emissions, I often throw mine into gear after starting without wait. But i always drive easy until the motor oil is nice and heated up.

For oil changes the best way to do it is warm up the engine a few minutes with the old oil, pump it out (pumps easier), replace the oil/filter and start/check the car right away. Residual film should be enough until pressure is achieved.

 

Thanks, I hate bad info going to people and I will admit I did not read the whole post.